Was Cadet rank an Officer?

[SamCurt]

While gathering details regarding Edward Alfred WHITE's death at RAF Retford on 26 July 1918, I have found that he initially joined the Royal Engineers in June 1915, aged 15¾, becoming 103684 Sapper White at their Wireless Training Centre, Worcester.

 

On reaching 18 he was attached to the Royal Air Force, as a Cadet, training to become a night-pilot.  Sent to No. 200 (N) Training Squadron, RAF Retford, he was killed 3½ months later while flying solo in FE2b, serial number A5575.

 

Prior to joining the REs he was an engineering student at the Regent Street Polytechnic, and is named on their War Memorial, which unusually separated the names into blocks recording officers by rank, non-commissioned officers by rank, and other ranks:

 

https://www.westminster.ac.uk/about-us/our-university/our-heritage/online-exhibitions/the-polytechnic-and-world-war-one/memorialisation/war-memorial-in-the-foyer-of-309-regent-street

 

Mr White's name appears in the officers section (although no rank given), with his headstone recording both his RE Sapper service number and that he was a Cadet.

 

Simple question, was he actually an officer, even though not commissioned?

 

Sam

[DavidOwen]

Hi Sam

 

This is tenuous but a search of WO339 (Officer service records) on the TNA archive using the word "cadet" brings up 7,654 records so I guess that could be a yes?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=cadet&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+339&_cr2=WO+374&_hb=tna

 

Regards

David

 

PS could this be him?  http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1185829

[PhilB]

I would have said that he wasn't an officer (ie a commissioned officer) but I can understand why he would be included with the officers rather than the ORs as he was "almost a gentleman" rather like a RN Midshipman. I look forward to a more informed opinion though!

[rolt968]

24 minutes ago, PhilB said:

I would have said that he wasn't an officer (ie a commissioned officer) but I can understand why he would be included with the officers rather than the ORs as he was "almost a gentleman" rather like a RN Midshipman. I look forward to a more informed opinion though!

I would go with that. Since he wasn't commissioned he wasn't an officer. In certain circumstances he might be treated as one.

(Am I right in thinking that a man was only discharged to a commission on the day (before?) he was a commissioned, certainly not when he started his course?)

RM

[MaureenE]

Historically, in the East India Company Armies, a Cadet was the entry level officer rank.  Usually in such matters, the East India Company Armies followed the practice of the British Army, so I think it very probable the British Army in the past had officers who had the rank Cadet. 

 

I would think that White above, would be an officer.

 

Cheers

Maureen

[Errol Martyn]

In the RFC/RAF, Cadets, sometimes described as Officer Cadets, were not officers but were selected as having the potential to become officers upon successful completion of relevant course or courses.

 

By 1918, with the ongoing expansion and sophistication of the training system, a cadet entering pilot training could be well along with his flying training before actually being commissioned (usually upon Graduation as a fully fledged pilot).

 

Errol

[PhilB]

And, on being commissioned, would no longer be termed a cadet.

[Old Owl]

I don't believe that a Cadet was ever an officer rank in either the Army or the Air Force. The official name was an Officer Cadet and many went through officer training courses leading to them being eventually commissioned as Temporary 2/Lts--only at this point could they have the rank of a commissioned officer.

 

Strangely enough though recruits to the Auxiliaries or ADRIC during the troubles in Ireland in the 1920's were given the rank of Cadet upon joining, even though the majority had held commissioned officer ranks in either the Army or the Royal Air Force during WW1.

 

To answer the original question:  I believe that White would still hold the rank of Cadet because he had not completed his training and as such had not been commissioned.  He was effectively still in the grey area between being an other rank and a commissioned officer.

Edited 20 February , 2018 by Old Owl

[MaureenE]

In this current webpage "Officer Ranks" includes Officer Cadet

https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/our-people/ranks/

 

Cheers

Maureen

[ICM - RAF Retd]

Indeed, but the important point comes next, under Second Lieutenant - namely, "the first rank held on commissioning."  It would have been only then that a man would have been recognised as worthy of the responsibilities and rights of commissioned rank.  As Old Owl mentioned just above, the Cadet days constitute a grey area when one is neither one thing or the other.

 

En passant: in 1964, as a graduate who had not been a member of a University Air Squadron, I went through the Direct Entry basic training scheme of that time (ie not Cranwell), with my Pilot Officer stripe and no white band on the cap etc, and was otherwise indistinguishable from my Officer Cadet colleagues - a particular kind of grey area!  

[SamCurt]

Thanks to all who have replied.

 

From this gentleman's placement on the Polytechnic's War Memorial, it looks like they regarded him as an officer, although not yet commissioned (and definitely not a non-commissioned officer).  Perhaps a Yet-to-be-commissioned-Officer-under-training?

 

The waters have been further muddied by a reply I have received from the Poly's archives (now University of Westminster).  An Active Service Register was kept by them for old boys, and Mr White's entry has him in the "RE (WT)" which was over-written with "RFC".  On the right-hand page, under rank, it has an entry "2/Lieut" and that he was killed in July.

 

I have yet to go through the Poly's full wartime editions of their monthly magazine, originally named The Polytechnic Magazine, but initial scans have found that there was another Mr White, also in the REs, and a 2nd Lt.  His entry records that A. H. White was in the REs Motor Section (May 1915 edition).  Perhaps this might have caused some confusion.

 

David,

Thanks for the TNA link, not sure if that's the right Mr White, usually the records I've seen have been quite precise about full names, the link given, although an RFC Cadet, is only for Edward White and not Edward Alfred White.  One to add to my list for the next London visit.

 

Once again, sorry for throwing a spanner in the works with these questions... speaking of which I'm just going to post another one... about a spanner.

 

Sam