CUTHBERT ROAD MILITARY CEMETERY, NEUVE CHAPELLE

[Guest]

    An oddity, which IFTC and Western Front  cemetery experts here on GWF may shed some light on. I have a local casualty 2Lt  Geoffrey Cuttle, 2nd Bn Yorkshire Regiment,  killed in action (sniped while trench digging) on 11th March 1915- and remembered on  the Le Touret memorial. BUT- CWGC unusually throws up a grave concentration report from January 1925. He was initially buried in a "soldiers plot" (Looks like brigade) at Cuthbert Farm-and the the GRU listing has a list of names and row and numbers in order.  The GRU report of 1925 is marked "No Remains Found" for Cuttle and a clutch of others.

    Might I ask 2 questions of colleagues:

 

1)  Whether Cuthbert Farm was just pulverised out of existence or if there are losses of named and  previously located graves in this cemetery?

 

2)   Whether CWGC made any effort in later years/ decades to have another go at locating this row of graves- or were cleared cemeteries just quietly forgotten?  

    

       I have not come across this problem before- but a whole row of men, including 4 officers ought to have attracted some attention for "another go" at some time, either by CWGC or later researchers.

 

     An Apology- It is of course, Cuthbert Farm-  concentrated into Rue Petillon-Those French lessons must have had some effect after all!

Edited 16 February , 2018 by Guest

[micks]

Hi GUEST

 

I have come across a few similar instances. It would appear that crosses were erected in Cuthbert Farm Cemetery to commemorate these men although their remains were not buried there. This probably indicates that their bodies were not recovered. These crosses were originally moved to cemeteries to honour these men but were removed at a later date when the larger memorials were built.

 

 

Mick

[Guest]

On 16/02/2018 at 08:03, micks said:

Hi GUEST

 

I have come across a few similar instances. It would appear that crosses were erected in Cuthbert Farm Cemetery to commemorate these men although their remains were not buried there. This probably indicates that their bodies were not recovered. These crosses were originally moved to cemeteries to honour these men but were removed at a later date when the larger memorials were built.

 

 

Mick

 

   Thanks Mick- Answers one question -and raises more.  GRU report suggests that crosses were intact at 1925- and the order and names are particularly specific. I find it hard to believe that the crosses were standing that late, without GRU working from a much earlier listing. And I wonder how many other sheets of GRU listings there are for Cuthbert Farm as well- Hope the answer to that is out on the Forum. It just struck me as very odd that  there were no map co-ordinates on the report sheet that includes 2Lt Geoffrey Cuttle.  But if it was a later  memorialisation by goodness-knows-who, then it begs questions about what information was used. The listing is quite specific-and the mix of regiments is clear as well. The layout of the listing looks like a "soldiers plot" next to an aid post- with the mix of regiments and ranks so common to all of these things.  

     If- a big IF but a probable one- the grave listings are taken from an earlier source, then does this mean that as series of casualties were listed in a random order either by date or by regiment?  Or that it was a "normal" plot where the whole bloc has been lost due to some unknown reason. I note that the area around Richebourg was subject to some unwanted clearances due to a stroppy local landowner.  If the crosses had been moved wholesale, then is there a chance that there is a bloc of graves close by?  Does "No remains Found" mean that there was extensive digging (the GRU report gives a span of 4 days)- or that the GRU could not for some reason dig thoroughly at that site.

     I can find out little about Cuthbert Farm- Cannot locate a total of who was supposed to be buried there- or when it's status changed to just "Missing" and on a memorial. I would be happy to learn if there are any concentration reports for Cuthbert Farm for named individuals, or whether everything (however many) has just been shoved over to "Missing".

    It all seems very odd- that many specific crosses -let alone what is on other pages of GRU for Cuthbert Farm - should have encouraged rather a lot of digging. Also rather odd that I cannot find any photograph for Cuthbert Farm-certainly none on Goggle or IWM, when I would have expected some early post-war pics.

[dickaren]

Here are the GRRF for Cuthbert Farm dated 11.6.20 and COG dated 17-20.1.25 for Cpl G.Robinson 2/Royal Scots. I have not checked any of the other names.