russtobin Posted 11 February , 2018 Share Posted 11 February , 2018 Is there anyway to calculate when a man enlisted based on his date of death and war gratuity paid? Thanks in advance for any replies. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 11 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 11 February , 2018 1 minute ago, russtobin said: Is there anyway to calculate when a man enlisted based on his date of death and war gratuity paid? Thanks in advance for any replies. Russ Take a look at the link in my signature - any issues, post details of the man and I will assist. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 11 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2018 Thx again Craig for your help. The man is Hugh Ellis 19320 9th Bn Yorks died on 10th July 1916. I'm trying to gather as much information about him as I can for a community project. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 11 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2018 Estimated enlistment August 1914? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 11 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 11 February , 2018 Just trying to see the records from my phone. Hugh had 19 months service at the time of his death. This would indicate enlistment in the month from 11 Dec 1914. Looking at surviving service records should allow a narrowing of the date. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 12 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2018 Thx Craig I can't find any surviving records other than Medals Card and Soldiers effects information - am I missing something? Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgibson150 Posted 12 February , 2018 Share Posted 12 February , 2018 I think Craig means that you should see if there are surviving service records for soldiers with service numbers near to Hugh's. Their enlistment dates may enable you to confirm/refine Hugh's estimated enlistment date. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 12 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2018 Great shout guys and perfect advice for a newbie. 19319 enlisted 10.12.15 so your December 15 estimate was spot on Craig! Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 12 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 12 February , 2018 49 minutes ago, russtobin said: Great shout guys and perfect advice for a newbie. 19319 enlisted 10.12.15 so your December 15 estimate was spot on Craig! Regards Russ As if I'm ever wrong Credit must go to the original clerks for their astounding level of accuracy. Excellent, so it looks like he enlisted 11 Dec 1915 or within a day or two of that date (sometimes there were slight breaks between groups of men being enlisted). Dec 1915 was within the Derby Scheme but interestingly he elected for immediate service rather than deferring it (if he deferred then he wouldn't have accrued war gratuity). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 12 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2018 Thx Craig What was the Derby Scheme? Why would he have deferred he wasn't conscripted.. Thanks again Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 12 February , 2018 Share Posted 12 February , 2018 1 hour ago, russtobin said: Thx Craig What was the Derby Scheme? Why would he have deferred he wasn't conscripted.. Thanks again Russ The Derby Scheme On the Long Long Trail Here Should answer your questions Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 15 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2018 On 12/02/2018 at 08:41, dgibson150 said: I think Craig means that you should see if there are surviving service records for soldiers with service numbers near to Hugh's. Their enlistment dates may enable you to confirm/refine Hugh's estimated enlistment date. David Have used the calculator to estimate the enlistment date for another man and it returns < 12 months as the estimate. Searching for other soldiers with near service numbers isn't helping. Medal card states Date of Entry Therein 17.7.15 and the Theatre was 2B(Gallipoli) Any help appreciated. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 15 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 15 February , 2018 20 minutes ago, russtobin said: Have used the calculator to estimate the enlistment date for another man and it returns < 12 months as the estimate. Searching for other soldiers with near service numbers isn't helping. Medal card states Date of Entry Therein 17.7.15 and the Theatre was 2B(Gallipoli) Any help appreciated. Regards Russ Who is the man ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 15 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2018 2 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: Who is the man ? Craig Hi Craig William Murdie 18867 served with 1st Bn Border Regiment. Killed in action 21.8.15 Thanks Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 15 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 15 February , 2018 You have found the issue with the gratuity, the fact that the amount for the first 12 months was a flat rate.. (very inconsiderate of the scheme). #18865 enlisted 4 Jan 1915 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 15 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2018 Thx Craig Do you know how service numbers were allocated? How could sequential numbers be allocated in different parts of the country on similar dates? Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 15 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 15 February , 2018 12 minutes ago, russtobin said: Thx Craig Do you know how service numbers were allocated? How could sequential numbers be allocated in different parts of the country on similar dates? Regards Russ They all seem to have had different ways of managing it - The 6th DLI for example used at least 3 different methods across 6 months. Some places allocated a range of numbers to each office, others collected the competed forms centrally and then numbered them in date order from the attestation (sometimes date and alphabetical) - this is possibly why some seem out of date order, perhaps they were received late and just had to be slotted in to the next batch being numbered. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 15 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2018 Thx Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 15 February , 2018 Share Posted 15 February , 2018 (edited) On 12/02/2018 at 08:15, russtobin said: Thx Craig I can't find any surviving records other than Medals Card and Soldiers effects information - am I missing something? Regards Russ According to Register of Soldiers Effects 19320 Private Hugh Ellis was awarded £6/10s received by his widow Mary. Edit: Oops sorry misread your search. Thought you were looking for his War Gratuity. Edited 15 February , 2018 by Lawryleslie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 15 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2018 Does the Date of Entry Therein (found on medal cards)mean the date the soldier qualified for a medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 15 February , 2018 Share Posted 15 February , 2018 15 minutes ago, russtobin said: Does the Date of Entry Therein (found on medal cards)mean the date the soldier qualified for a medal? MIC's marked with a date of entry show the date the man set foot in a war zone and indicate entitlement to the 1914 - 14/15 star medal: no dates for men going abroad after 1/1/16 who were awarded the Brish War and Victory medal pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 16 February , 2018 Share Posted 16 February , 2018 Hi, 25 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: MIC's marked with a date of entry show the date the man set foot in a war zone I think that is generally true, but I recall seeing a fair few examples where the date shown is the date that the man left the UK, cf when he actually arrived in theatre. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 16 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 16 February , 2018 8 hours ago, clk said: Hi, I think that is generally true, but I recall seeing a fair few examples where the date shown is the date that the man left the UK, cf when he actually arrived in theatre. Regards Chris Same here Chris. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtobin Posted 16 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2018 I know that the soldier probably enlisted in January 1915 and that the 1st Battalion Border Regiment were mobilised in April 1915 to join the 29th Division. If he didn't enter the Gallipoli campaign until July I can't explain where he was between January and July... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 16 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 16 February , 2018 24 minutes ago, russtobin said: I know that the soldier probably enlisted in January 1915 and that the 1st Battalion Border Regiment were mobilised in April 1915 to join the 29th Division. If he didn't enter the Gallipoli campaign until July I can't explain where he was between January and July... Training will be the answer for at least 3 months of the period. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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