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Remembered Today:

WW1 Spoon?


wmfinch

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Hello All,

 

I have this table spoon which I found in my Mother's cutlery drawer after she passed away and I'm wondering if it is a WW1spoon, and what relevance the initials and numbers are?

 

Rightly or wrongly, I have assumed that the numbers are Regimental numbers, but many many names come up on Ancestory when I put in either number.

 

The spoon was made by John Round and Son.

 

Any help will be very appreciated.

 

V/R

 

Wayne

 

 

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12 minutes ago, wmfinch said:

Hello All,

 

I have this table spoon which I found in my Mother's cutlery drawer after she passed away and I'm wondering if it is a WW1spoon, and what relevance the initials and numbers are?

 

Rightly or wrongly, I have assumed that the numbers are Regimental numbers, but many many names come up on Ancestory when I put in either number.

 

The spoon was made by John Round and Son.

 

Any help will be very appreciated.

 

V/R

 

Wayne

 

 

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W.E.L. Indicates to me Welch regiment, best of luck in your research.

 

Dave.

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19 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

W.E.L. Indicates to me Welch regiment, best of luck in your research.

 

Dave.

After a quick search, only 1 chap on medal index cards for the Welch regiment, a Samuel Kirkpatrick...K.I.A. 1914. But I know numbers were reissued can't be 100 percent it was his.

 

Dave.

 

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Wow, thank you so much Dave....that's a much better lead than I had come up with.

 

I know this is conjecture but I wonder if the spoon was re-issued after Samuel's death and a second number was then engraved on it?

 

My Grandfather's surname was Evans, but he was born in Cheltenham and fought with the 55th West Lancashire Division RFA.  Also, he didn't get into the war until 1917, so any theories about him acquiring the spoon are very long shots.

 

Whatever  we come up with, I really appreciate the reply.

 

V/R

 

Wayne

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14 minutes ago, wmfinch said:

Wow, thank you so much Dave....that's a much better lead than I had come up with.

 

I know this is conjecture but I wonder if the spoon was re-issued after Samuel's death and a second number was then engraved on it?

 

My Grandfather's surname was Evans, but he was born in Cheltenham and fought with the 55th West Lancashire Division RFA.  Also, he didn't get into the war until 1917, so any theories about him acquiring the spoon are very long shots.

 

Whatever  we come up with, I really appreciate the reply.

 

V/R

 

Wayne

Wayne,

 

there are 72 hits for 8728, no Evans I'm afraid.

I really don't know if spoons were reissued after a soldiers death, but numbers were commonly reused, I do know they are extremely hard to pin down to one person. Many could be pre war numbers so unless something is passed down with a cast iron provenance we can only speculate.

Yours certainly looks to be the Fiddle pattern which was standard issue pre war and early ww1, and they are always a poignant piece of personal kit.

Hopefully someone can throw a little more detailed info into the pot.

 

All the best,

 

Dave.

 

 

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Hello All,

 

I did find Robert Evans who served with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers.  He was discharged in March 1917, shortly after my Grandfather was called up, but it is a very tenuous connection.

 

V/R

 

Wayne

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Many thanks once again Dave.  Your identification of the spoon seems to prove it was military issue, which is great news.  Also the Kirkpatrick dates are very early in the war, so maybe :-)

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7 minutes ago, wmfinch said:

Many thanks once again Dave.  Your identification of the spoon seems to prove it was military issue, which is great news.  Also the Kirkpatrick dates are very early in the war, so maybe :-)

A quick check on army service numbers puts 9017 Welch regiment first issued in 1906. If it were Royal Welch fusiliers The correct regimental stamping should be W.F.

 

There has to be a reason for your family having the spoon, could it be a distant relative, or even a friend of your grandparents...sometimes we just never know, but nice little pieces of history to own...I have a number of them, but all of mine are only numbered.

 

Dave.

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I'm definitely veering towards Kirkpatrick Dave.  Thank you so much for your interest and help.

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Hi Wayne,  

I'd say Kirkpatrick is a good bet, I have a few spoons with No. and Reg. marked.   Nice find!

 

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Thank you 'GWF'.  I'll download his MIC and Commonwealth Grave entries.

 

V/R

 

Wayne 

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  • 7 months later...

It`s just struck me, gents, that the numbers we see on army cutlery are virtually all 4 figures. That doesn`t mean it was the man`s whole number, of course. It`s normal (or was in my day) to put your last 4 on anything you marked.

Edited by PhilB
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Hello , thank you for posting this interesting topic and although i cannot help your quest , i would like to add the following out of interest , i was recently given a spoon by a family who said that it belonged to a family member who was killed in the great war it was returned with his personnel effects  the number does not relate to the Soldier killed and it is a six  figure no. No regimental details are stamped on the reverse just a Number 

rgs Phill Jones 

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Edited by Phill Jones
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Hello Phill,

 

Ancestry shows just two soldiers with that number:

 

Alfred Smith of the Army Service Corps.

George Tomlinson of the Royal Garrison Artillery.

 

V/R

 

Wayne

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Hi Wayne , thanks for this i will check this out rgs Phill

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  • 2 years later...

HI all

 

Digging up an older topic, but I have a question regarding a spoon in our possession. Could someone help me identify the original owner of this piece? The round plaque is our collection number and is to be ignored in this question. :-)

 

I have tried the NA, but that proofed to be difficult. Please mind that the numbers could be upside-down.... 

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Jan

1110518b.jpg

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Hello Jan.  If I turn the number around Fold3 have a record relating to F John 6099181 born 29th October 1891 QORR which relates to the Queens Own Royal Regiment Staffordshire Yeomanry listed in British Military Discharge Indexes, Army Other Ranks, Discharges for 1939 - 1971. Under 1816609 Fold3 have listed in Australian WWII Service Records, Robert Harold Turner WX12712 2/28 Infantry Battalion AIF though not sure where the link to the number on the spoon is so unlikely him. 

 

Entering 6609 or 6099 gives up many possibilities. 

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As this topic has revived, then one function of marked spoons is that they acted as a de facto ID disc.  It looks to me that KFS sets were stamped for the man with his number-and that as many carried these with them, the laments about lack of discs may have to be moderated. I enclose a CWGC concentration report on a local casualty where I live, Private Ernest Elvin, KIA 21st April 1915- here the reality of marked spoons becomes a bit grimmer:

 

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Hello Gunner

 

Thank you for your help. F John is the most likely, but then again, I have my doubts. In our registrations files I also read: "spoon from a trooper killed 22/08/1914 at Vellerville-les-Brayeux". I have been doing some digging. Only the 5th Cavalry Brigade was in that area at that time (12th Royal Lancers, 20th Hussars and 2nd Dragoons), but non of the regiments have soldiers killed that day. Only on the 23 and 24th and so on. Our older files lack some torough research once in a while. So 'trooper' might be incorrect (the French entry reads: 'cavalier') and the date might be a bit wrong. But still... date, place and cavalry seems 'connected'. Any ideas?

 

Thanks!

 

Jan

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  • 1 year later...

Just found this forum while trying to ID a spoon We found on our property in Texas. 
 

got any ideas? Stamp on back is large and irregular amd says 999 (or 666?)

 

 

D00D711E-F2ED-46F6-9356-F1A357355F24.jpeg

61528E6D-C4A5-44E2-8493-1ED724FC4CD7.jpeg

730C0D82-E375-4E59-AAC6-8A36550C98E9.jpeg

image.jpg

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1 hour ago, Austinjewlz said:

Just found this forum while trying to ID a spoon We found on our property in Texas. 
 

got any ideas? Stamp on back is large and irregular amd says 999 (or 666?)

 

 

D00D711E-F2ED-46F6-9356-F1A357355F24.jpeg

61528E6D-C4A5-44E2-8493-1ED724FC4CD7.jpeg

730C0D82-E375-4E59-AAC6-8A36550C98E9.jpeg

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Hello Austinjewiz, welcome to the forum.

Thank you for sharing images of your spoon. It actually doesn't appear to be British issue but US. The numbers are very likely the last three from the soldiers service number which makes identification difficult at best. This was a common practice and is still today, though the last four numbers are now used. I searched Fold3 for both numbers 999 and 666 and nothing jumped out at me. maybe one of our US experts will be able to assist further.  In addition, is there a further stamp visible? 

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On 09/02/2018 at 21:21, Dave66 said:

Wayne,

 

there are 72 hits for 8728, no Evans I'm afraid.

I really don't know if spoons were reissued after a soldiers death, but numbers were commonly reused, I do know they are extremely hard to pin down to one person. Many could be pre war numbers so unless something is passed down with a cast iron provenance we can only speculate.

Yours certainly looks to be the Fiddle pattern which was standard issue pre war and early ww1, and they are always a poignant piece of personal kit.

Hopefully someone can throw a little more detailed info into the pot.

 

All the best,

 

Dave.

 

 

Sincere apologies for the delay in replying … thank you for the info 👍

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