Archibald (Archie) McKillop, Mercantile Marine

[George Millar]

Hello

I recently purchased a Mercantile Marine medal to Archie McKillop who was born in Cushendall, Co Antrim, Northern Ireland on the 20^th July 1899 to parents James McKillop and Jane McVicker.  I purchased his medal card from the National Archives which showed that he was awarded the Mercantile and British War medals.  I also noticed that he served during the Second World War under his proper name of Archibald McKillop (his date of Birth tallying) S/N° R.219718 and was awarded the 1939/1945 medal and the Atlantic star and clasp.  He is also shown to have been awarded a British Empire Medal and I have found a record in the London Gazette 18^th June 1946 edition of a record for an “Archibald McKillop, skipper of a Motor Fishing Boat, Campbeltown” which I presume is him.  I have also seen in the National Archives a document for him called the “Registry of Shipping & Seamen: War of 1939-1945”.  Unfortunately this document cannot be downloaded.  Although it is for the 1939/1945 War, would it also have his previous service in World War One?

I have already done some research on his family history but it’s his service in the First World War that I would like to now research and it’s that what I am having difficulty with.  I know that Cushendall had/has a fishing fleet of trawlers but for the moment I haven’t been able to find out anything about them or their crews. I was hoping that some members of the forum might be able to help and give me an indication as to where to look to get more information on him.

Thanks in advance

George

[seaJane]

Is this him in the RNR by any chance? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=archibald+mckillop+adm&_p=1900&Refine+dates=Refine No date of birth given, unfortunately.

 

 

[George Millar]

Hello sealane,

Thanks for the reply. I don't really know if this is him or not. When war broke in 1914 he would still have been 15 years old and I thought as one of the major means of employment in the area was fishing I believed that he would have been working on one of the local fishing trawlers.  As I said I downloaded his medal card from the National Archives for WW1 and it makes no mention of him being commissioned.  However, I'll continue looking.  Many thanks for the reply.

George

[ARABIS]

There are several post 1918 Merchant Navy CR10 cards under the name of Archibald McKillop and two for Archie McKillop on Find My Past. Archie McKillop born Cushendall 20/7/1898 was an Assistant Steward c1918, & a Smoke Room Steward 1941.

[seaJane]

Not the RNR man then.

[ernest james]

I think that Arabis has identified the right man. His RS2 No on the 1918 CR10 card is 807890. Does that match the number on his medal card? The photo on the CR10 card is excellent by the way.

There are no voyages listed on the 1918 card which suggests he was in the Home Trade. I suspect he may have been working on the short sea passenger services out of Larne or Belfast. The 1941 CR1 card puts him on the SS Princess Maud, ON 134673 and has a STRANRAER stamp. Did he stay on the same service for 20 years?

best wishes

ernest james

[George Millar]

Hello Arabis, seaJane and Ernest James,

Firstly thanks for the information.  I've looked at his medal card for ww1 and his RS2 number is indeed 807890.  In the past I've researched Soldiers and Royal Navy sailors who served in WW1 so this is my first foray researching someone in the Merchant Navy.  Could you please explain what a 1918 CR10 and 1941 CR1 cards are and where I can get a copy of them?  I really would like a copy of his photo.  Ernest James, what you say about him working from Larne might be correct.  In his medal card his medal ribbons were sent to M.M.O Larne Harbour, would this suggest that he plied his trade from there?.  As regards his medal card for ww2 his number is R219718 but has another number 81964 but I don't know what relevance this is.  As I said in my initial post he was awarded the BEM, is the record that I found in the London Gazette for him?  Any information would be appreciated.

Once again, many thanks

George

 

[George Millar]

Hello Ernest James,

I just seen your website ww.irishmarniers.ie and it explains about the CR10 and CR1 cards and also who & where to contact to get a copy.  I also noticed that the details that you have for him doesn't give a discharge A N°.  Where would I be able to find this if I wanted to order the CR1 card?  As I said earlier any information on him would be appreciated.

George

[ernest james]

George

There are microfiche copies of central record cards for seamen in the British merchant marine covering the period 1918-41 which you can access online on findmypast.(payment needed)

 The originals are held in Southampton Archives, UK.

If you look at my website www.irishmariners.ie it will give you a fuller explanation of the various record cards and some examples. 

Have a go at finding the records and come back to me if you have more questions.

I don't think you have the right man for the BEM yet because they were doing different jobs. I suggest you start by googling 'SS Princess Maud' and see what she did in ww2

best wishes

ernest james

[ernest james]

George. I didn't see your Wednesday 12.06 posting

The reason that he didn't have a Discharge number in 1918 was that you needed to be working in foreign trade to get it. I suspect that he may have been on the Larne -Stranraer service in 1918. His CR1 card was issued in November 1941 and the Discharge Number R 219718 was issued then even though he was still working in the home trade. The WW2 situation meant that Discharge numbers were issued for seamen working in both home and foreign trade. I suspect that this was a move by the Minister of Labour, Ernest Bevin, to get better manpower control in the industry. I also suspect that Archie may have worked in the Larne-Stranraer service in the 1918-41 period. You may be able to check this from crewlists held by PRONI.

best wishes

ernest james

 

[George Millar]

Hello Ernest James,

Many thanks for your help, I'm going to contact the Southampton Archives on Tuesday and order his CR10 and CR1 cards.  The crew lists that you mention held by PRONI, are they available on line?  I use PRONI a lot for Wills and Street Directories etc but I've never come across the crew lists.

I've also got another mercantile medal for a Patrick McGee born in Belfast in 1873 (his name was spelt Magee in his birth records) with a RS2 N° 377696.  I'll enquire about his CR10 card from Southampton Archives also.

Best Regards

George

[ernest james]

George

The mainstay of the Larne-Stranraer route in the WW1 period was the first Princess Maud , Official number (ON) 98333, which served from 1904 ish to 1931. I think she must have been registered in Stranraer (not Larne or Belfast) because she does not appear in the PRONI crew lists.  The British National Archives at Kew (TNA) have crew lists for her for 1916,1917, 1919,1920, 1927, and 1931 . You will have to pay them for copies but they can be ordered on line. There should be two crew lists for each year. One for January to June and one for July to December. If I had a choice to make I would go for Jan to June 1919. The 1918 crew lists are held at the Maritime History Archive , Newfoundland. (more expensive for copies)

best wishes

ernest james

[George Millar]

Ernest James,

Thanks again for the info although I am now a little confused.  I’ve looked on the web and have found 2 “Princess Maud’s”.  One belonged to the Larne & Stranraer Steamboat Company which then became Portpatrick & Wigtownshire Railways Joint Committee in 1890.  This “Princess Maud” was built in 1904 and then scrapped in 1932 after grounding.  When the company became the London Midland & Scottish Railway Company a new vessel was built in 1933 serving during WW2 before being sold and renamed Cyprus.  This info ties in with what you have told me.

However, I have also found another “Princess Maud” built in 1885 and requisitioned by the Admiralty as a “Fleet Messenger”.  This vessel was sunk in 1918 by UB88.

What I don’t understand is how there can be 2 ships with the same name at the same period in time?

Regards

George

 

 

[ernest james]

George

There were two ships called Princess Maud operating at the same time. Every ship had a unique official number  but ships with the same name were not unknown.  That's why I added the official number. This number remained the same even if the name of the ship was changed after an ownership change.

best wishes

ernest james 

[MerchantOldSalt]

George

The attached photos are of the ships in which you are interested, (1) belonged to the Larne and Stranraer Steamboat Co. Off.No 98333 and was indeed registered in Stranraer as Ernest James quite rightly says.

(2) was owned by the LMS Rly Co. Off.No. 134673 and was also registered in Stranraer

and (3) Off.No. 114008, registered in Glasgow, was owned/managed by Alexander W Langlands of Glasgow as is really of no interest to you as your man McKillop did not serve on this ship

 

Maybe helps a  bit

Tony

[George Millar]

Many thanks Ernest James & Tony for the info and photos.  I'll do some more digging and see what I can find.  I'll let you know what I come up with.

Regards

George

[George Millar]

I thought I would give an update on my research on Archibald (Archie) McKillop since my last post.  I obtained Archie’s CR10 and CR1 cards from Southampton Archives but they didn’t give me a lot more information than what I already had.  They did however give me a photo of Archie which was great as it now puts a face to the name and his life story.

As stated previously by several forum members, Archie served on “SS Princess Maud” (Official N° 98333) as a “Steward’s Assistant” and he continued to serve on her after the end of the First World War.  The “SS Princess Maud” continued to ply her trade between Larne and Stranraer until the 9^th June 1931 when she sustained damage at Barr’s Point, off Islandmagee in Northern Ireland.   It was probably thought that the damage was too costly to repair and she was scrapped and broken up in January 1932 by T.W. Ward of Preston.

However, a new vessel was ordered by the London, Midland & Scottish Railway Company, it also was called “LMS Princess Maud” (Official N° 134673).  She was again built by William Denny & Bros, Dumbarton, Scotland at their Leven Yard (Yard N° 1265) and was launched on the 19th December 1933 with completion in February 1934. It seems that Archie transferred to the new ship once in service.  I obtained some additional information from the National Archives which listed that Archie was married and it was on the “Scotlands People” website that I found his marriage record.  He married Elizabeth Harrison Wallace on the 30^th September 1936 in the Register Office in Glasgow.  In his marriage record his occupation is listed as a “Ship’s Steward” and his usual residence listed as “on board RMS Princess Maud of Stranraer”.   It’s not known where or how the couple met but it is likely that Archibald had started living in Stranraer as most of his time would have been spent sailing between Larne and Stranraer.  Also, Elizabeth’s father Hugh was a “Ship’s Stoker” and perhaps it was through him that Archibald and Elizabeth met.

On the outbreak of the Second World War, “Princess Maud” was requisitioned by the Admiralty as a troopship and on the 10th September 1939 left Southampton for France.  Then on the 12th December 1939 she transferred to Dover to make the crossings to Boulogne.  On the 30th May 1940 when events across the channel were turning worse for the BEF, she left Dover for Dunkirk to aid in the evacuation of the British and French troops in what is now known as “Operation Dynamo”.  However, whilst off the French coast, she was hit by shellfire which resulted in a hole on the waterline flooding the engine room.  She returned to Dover with a list and with 4 casualties who later died.  Following repairs, she again left Dover on the 3rd June 1940 for Dunkirk arriving at midnight with the port ablaze.  She managed to get alongside and without gangways took off 1270 French troops, landing them at Folkestone before going to Plymouth.  On the 12th June 1940, she left Plymouth for Valery-en-Caux and while under fire off the coast took off 600 British and 400 French troops and 500 from the SS Goldfinch.  On the 17th June 1940 she sailed for St Malo where she embarked 2500 troops before returning to the UK.  On the 18th June 1940, she left Southampton for repairs on the River Clyde.  After repairs, she started ferrying troops from Larne to Stranraer.

It is more than probable that Archibald would have served on board during these evacuations.  In his service records he is listed as a “Smoke Room Steward” and had a Discharge “A” N° R219718 as listed on his CR1 Card.  “LMS Princess Maud” then reverted to serving the Larne/Stranaer route on behalf of the Admiralty until 1943 when she was required again.  As the tide of war was turning in the Allies favour, she was transferred to the Mersey on the 13th November 1943 for conversion to an infantry assault ship capable of launching six Landing Craft Assault (LCA) boats via hand hoists for the upcoming invasion of France and what is known as the “Normandy Landings”.  After conversion to a Landing Ship, “LMS Princess Maud” arrived at Southampton on the 9th February 1944 to begin training for “Operation Neptune”.  The Normandy landings were the landing operations on Tuesday, 6th June 1944 of the Allied invasion of Normandy in Operation Overlord during World War II.  From the information I obtained from the National Archives, Archibald was engaged for service on the “LMS Princess Maud” on the 1st May 1944 at Southampton. On the 5th June 1944 “LMS Princess Maud” left Weymouth with Assault Convoy O1 for Omaha beachhead where she then joined the landing ship shuttle service.

On the 3rd July 1944, Archibald’s father-in-Law Hugh Wallace died and Archibald was granted compassionate leave on the 5th July 1944 to attend his funeral and console his wife.  After his leave, he reported back for duty to the ship at Cowes on the 9th July 1944. Archibald’s wife Elizabeth must have been living with her father at this time as she is listed as living at 36 High Street, Stranraer.  Elizabeth’s mother Annie Wallace (Nee Griffin) had already died on the 11th March 1939.

For his service during the Second World War, Archibald was awarded the British “WW2 1939-1945 Star” medal and the “WW2 Atlantic Star” medal with the “France and Germany” clasp.  His medal records now list him as “Archibald McKillop, N° R219718 with a date of birth 20.7.1899.  His medal record also shows that he was awarded the British Empire Medal (BEM) but so far the details of when and why he was presented with this medal cannot be found.

At the end of the Second World War, by September 1945 “RMS Princess Maud” was back at Stranraer to resume commercial service between Larne and Stranraer.  However, by 1946 she was transferred to the Holyhead in Wales to Dun Laoghaire in Southern Ireland route and it is not known if Archibald continued to serve on her as his home was now in Stranraer, Scotland.

It seems that Archibald spent his remaining years of his life in Stranraer as the last piece of information we have of him is his death in July 1968.  He was 69 years old and was living at N° 1 Fairhurst Road in Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland.  In his death record his occupation is listed as a “Commission Agent’s Clerk”.  He was buried in Stranraer (Glebe) Cemetery Extension, Stranraer in Lair/Plot 44 on the 30th July 1968. Archibald’s wife Elizabeth Harrison succeeded him and died in December 1984 at the age of 84 years.  She is laid to rest with her husband in Lair/Plot 44 of the Stranraer (Glebe) cemetery Extension.

The only mystery remains his BEM medal.  As stated previously, the only BEM that I can find in the London Gazette was awarded to Archibald McKillop, skipper of a Motor Fishing Boat, Campbeltown (LG 18 June 1946).  Is it possible that this BEM medal is listed incorrectly to “my” Archibald McKllop’s medal records?