Starting my Mothers side..Hubert Ratcliffe and George Herbert Keeling

[Dragoon]

Hello good people of the forum.

 

I've completed my Fathers side of the family WW1 wise, and i'm starting now on my Mothers, both of her Grandfathers, Hubert Ratcliffe, Born 1881 in Derbyshire to Robert and Eliza, and George Herbert Keeling, Born 1883 Derbyshire to Walter and Maria.

I've spoken to my mum and she has no recollection of them serving at all.

And i can find nothing on them what so ever. 

I've searched through MIC's, Medal rolls, Service Records and pension records, all to no avail!

I know how exceptionally good the members of this forum are at finding things that I've missed, and that's why, if you don't mind, I've handed it over to you chaps.

I've attached the two 1911 Census with their last known addresses wives etc.

I hope you can help please.

 

Your time and help, as always, are greatly appreciated

 

Chris  

 

 

Edited 5 February , 2018 by Dragoon

[IanA]

Just a thought - perhaps, working in the coal industry, they were in a reserved occupation and didn't serve at all.

 

Ian

[Dragoon]

Thank you for the reply Ian, I did think that maybe the case, but I want to be 100% sure.

Is there a list of men on reserved occupation?

 

Chris

[Hywyn]

Chris

 

Have you tried the Absent Voters list. I don't believe they are available for the whole of Derbyshire though

 

see below link (plus comments)

https://recordoffice.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/conservation-update-absent-voters-lists/

 

 

[Dragoon]

I'd forgotten about the AVL avenue, thank you Hywyn.

 

Chris

[IanA]

1 hour ago, Dragoon said:

Is there a list of men on reserved occupation?

 

Chris

Not that I know of, but others may know better. Good luck.

 

Ian

[Dragoon]

Cheers Ian for your input, it is likely they were on the reserved occupation.

I'll check the AVL and see

 

Thanks all

 

Chris

[sotonmate]

Hubert, if he did serve, might have been a favourite for posting to the Royal Engineers Tunnelling Companies, where many miners were posted. I looked specifically for that but had no hits which fit your Census info.

[kenf48]

3 hours ago, Dragoon said:

Thank you for the reply Ian, I did think that maybe the case, but I want to be 100% sure.

Is there a list of men on reserved occupation?

 

Chris

 

Both men were in "Certified Occupations" to which a General Reservation from Military Service applied subject to certain conditions.  As far as the mining industry was concerned the application of exemptions from military service was quite complex and changed throughout the war so it is difficult to be '100% certain'.

 

In broad terms during the voluntary period of enlistment at the outbreak of war many miners volunteered. In South Wales 50,000 miners enlisted in the early days of the war, it was a similar story in the other coalfields a greater or lesser extent.  As a consequence there was severe disruption to the industry when coal was essential for the steel industry and the Navy and needed by the Army and general population.  In recognition of this restrictions were placed on volunteers from the mines and they could only enlist with their employer's permission.  In general underground workers remained exempt from military service following the Military Service Act and the introduction of conscription in March 1916.  In 1917 when it became obvious that even with conscription the number of recruits for the Army could not keep pace with demand in May the Government asked for 21,000 recruits from the mining industry.   There was a 'combing out' of single men and those who had become miners after the war began.  The Trade Unions were heavily involved in this process, in fact in South Wales there was a strike ballot called to resist the 'comb out' which was defeated by an overwhelming majority of over three to one.   However, on both counts Hubert, had he not previously enlisted, would in all probability have continued in his exemption.  This exemption was granted by the Colliery Recruiting Court under similar terms to the Local Tribunal.

 

Above ground workers were in a more vulnerable position as far as compulsory military service was concerned not least because many of their jobs could be undertaken by women.   If he was employed in the coal mining industry as a Winding Engineman then he enjoyed the same exemption as an underground worker, i.e. unconditional.  However, in the list of Certified Occupations published on 1st February 1917 a married engineman aged over 27 was able to secure a 'General Reservation' from Military Service.  It was stressed in the list that, 'The ONLY ground for making these reservations is that the men protected are engaged on work of national importance". In granting an exemption the Tribunal needed to be satisfied on a number of counts, absenteeism etc. but there is nothing to suggest there were any disciplinary implications that might have led to withdrawal of the exemption.

 

If you can find no record of military service it is highly likely they did not serve. In my family my grandfather and his five brothers were all South Wales miners in 1914, he and two of his brothers enlisted in August/September 1914, the other three did not but remained in the industry throughout the war.  Researching the coal industry, although often more difficult, can be as rewarding as researching soldiers, especially if there is a family connection.  

 

Ken

Edited 5 February , 2018 by kenf48

[Dragoon]

Thanks Sotonmate, I thought the same with no hits! Appreciated you looking again though.

And Ken, what an interesting and very thorough reply, great detail, a big thank you.

I've no idea where to start with the coal mining side

 

Thank you all

 

Chris

Edited 5 February , 2018 by Dragoon