RGJDEE Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Also would appreciate any comments as this is my first purchase. Looks like it’s a Pall mall wilkinson. thanks in advance , Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Welcome to the slippery slope of collecting Bayonets. Crossguard: DP = drill purpose ONLY, not for service issue. Pommel: 2 KR = 2 Bn. KRRC, the King’s Royal Rifle Corps was my Thought. However, Instructions to Armourers gives KRR. Pommel: 40 and 357 are both rack numbers, so that the well-fitting bayonet stays with the right Rifle. Usually, when a number is changed the original number is lined through. Font size indicates that 40 was the first rack number, and 357 was applied later. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 3 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Thanks JMB slippery slope indeed ! anyone else any thoughts on the 2-K-R confess I thought the cross guard was H G ( home guard) hence the ‘advice wanted’ ! been wanting one for ages any comments on condition ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 4 minutes ago, RGJDEE said: Thanks JMB slippery slope indeed ! anyone else any thoughts on the 2-K-R confess I thought the cross guard was H G ( home guard) hence the ‘advice wanted’ ! been wanting one for ages any comments on condition ?? Certainly looks to be D P on the cross guard, has the tip of the blade been rounded off?? As JMB said rifles was my first thought but should be K.R.R., but the K looks to be over stamped with Something when you expand the photo. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 From your photos, I would say that the walnut grips, the screw-bolts/nuts, cross-guard, Pommel and blade are all in average condition. No rust or pitting is present. Unless it is in shadow, the locking button in the pommel looks slightly depressed—-is it ? Does the locking button move freely with some resistance (against an internal spring) or is it loose ? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 3 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Blade not rounded edge not honed button is not loose and does depress with a little help ! Bit stiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Dave66 said: Certainly looks to be D P on the cross guard, has the tip of the blade been rounded off?? As JMB said rifles was my first thought but should be K.R.R., but the K looks to be over stamped with Something when you expand the photo. Dave. Dave, As you say, the K does not look quite "clean". Since there is no second "R", then it could/should not have been struck as a "K". The only regiment with a 2-letter stamp, of which the second is "R", is The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) denoted by SR. Does not resemble SR, but maybe N/K R ??? Altogether confusing, until somebody announces "Oh yes, it is Indian Army (Napier's/Nelson's/Newton's Rifles)" then all will be clear ! This assumes that the SMLE rifle was actually issued to the IA. Regards, JMB Edited 3 February , 2018 by JMB1943 Add info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Stamping of DP on the crossguard was (is?) common Indian practice. Is there any sign of a white paint stripe around the handle (perhaps in the grain of the wood?) - the DP stamp is often accompanied by this And indeed SMLEs were (and still are!) issued in India and Mk3* s were produced as late as 1988! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 10 minutes ago, JMB1943 said: Dave, As you say, the K does not look quite "clean". Since there is no second "R", then it could/should not have been struck as a "K". The only regiment with a 2-letter stamp, of which the second is "R", is The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) denoted by SR. Does not resemble SR, but maybe N/K R ??? Altogether confusing, until somebody announces "Oh yes, it is Indian Army (Napier's/Nelson's/Newton's Rifles)" then all will be clear ! This assumes that the SMLE rifle was actually issued to the IA. Regards, JMB The orientation of the stamping is unusual also, and to me there's a general feel a non British issued piece. Unusual the blade hasn't been rounded off as would normally be the case, and certainly looks as though the locking mechanism has been replaced. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 3 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Thankyou all. there is no trace of white paint on the grips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 (edited) I have a P1907 with DP stamp exactly as this example and still with original tip present (not rounded). There were traces of yellow paint under the grips. This was covered in another post, the pommel is stamped T B S M, which is thought to be:- Telegraph Battalion Sappers & Miners. Mike. Edited 5 February , 2018 by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 3 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Thanks mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Both bayonet and scabbard show indications of Indian service, while the stampings also look a little "non-British". And so it is quite easy to find a match with the Indian Army regiments of the Great War ... the 2nd Kashmir Rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 13 minutes ago, shippingsteel said: Both bayonet and scabbard show indications of Indian service, while the stampings also look a little "non-British". And so it is quite easy to find a match with the Indian Army regiments of the Great War ... the 2nd Kashmir Rifles. Yes, if it is a clean K. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 It appears the 2nd Kashmir Rifles were primarily involved with the fighting in German East Africa during the war (see details below) http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57830 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 15 minutes ago, JMB1943 said: Yes, if it is a clean K. Regards, JMB Really can't make out that confusing first letter, certainly something not right.....even after a couple of glasses of grape juice! Even asked Mrs B and couldn't say for sure as not clear enough. Regards to all, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Don't know whats happened to the EDIT button on this forum, as I was wanting to add another link. Anyway here is the link which provides a colourful background story for anyone who may be interested. http://www.centenarynews.com/article/100-years-ago-today-battle-of-lukigura-in-east-africa Yes the bayonet certainly needs a good clean, all the stamping imprints are full of gunk, making them very unclear. However as with letters of the alphabet, the available possibilities amongst the Indian Regiments are also quite limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 3 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2018 Thanks again will give a gentle clean and re post nxt week . Thanks for the links will check them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 3 February , 2018 Share Posted 3 February , 2018 48 minutes ago, shippingsteel said: Don't know whats happened to the EDIT button on this forum, as I was wanting to add another link. Anyway here is the link which provides a colourful background story for anyone who may be interested. http://www.centenarynews.com/article/100-years-ago-today-battle-of-lukigura-in-east-africa Yes the bayonet certainly needs a good clean, all the stamping imprints are full of gunk, making them very unclear. However as with letters of the alphabet, the available possibilities amongst the Indian Regiments are also quite limited. Thanks for the links S.S. Most interesting and informative. Regards, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 7 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2018 After a gentle clean ......... no marks to scabbard . Any ideas with the inspection marks ? seems like the 2.K.R is correct. Thanks in advance as always Richard. any suggestions with acquiring bayonet issued to R W Kent’s / or Buffs ( my Grandfathers Regiments) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 7 February , 2018 Share Posted 7 February , 2018 The inspectors marks look to be 'E' for Enfield. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 7 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2018 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 7 February , 2018 Share Posted 7 February , 2018 2 hours ago, RGJDEE said: After a gentle clean ......... no marks to scabbard . Any ideas with the inspection marks ? seems like the 2.K.R is correct. Thanks in advance as always Richard. any suggestions with acquiring bayonet issued to R W Kent’s / or Buffs ( my Grandfathers Regiments) That's much better, cleaned up really well. Havent seen a unit marked one for your grandfathers regiment recently, but if I do I'll give you the nod....there are a few online dealers who regularly deal in bayonets, it may be worth an email or two , if no joy they could look out for one on your behalf. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 7 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2018 Thanks Dave very happy with this one ( £ 90 ) however ............. one that had been to France/Flanders esp with one of those Regiments would be a real plum . Appreciate your kind offer and advice regards Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 7 February , 2018 Share Posted 7 February , 2018 The unit markings certainly help to add to the interest of a bayonet. I don't recall seeing such markings on any post WW2 bayonets - did the practice cease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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