1914 Star Roll

[theodore]

On 1914 Star Rolls the last column with heading 'To be left blank for use in War Office' a blue 'C' is marked if a soldier had died (KiA, DoW etc.) in 1914. Soldiers killed in other years (15-18) do not have this 'C' marked. What does this mean?

Any help with this apprecated.

 

Regards

 

Peter

 

[sotonmate]

1914 Star had a Clasp which had to be applied for by an entitled soldier. Might it be that there was some relaxation of this rule where it concerned dead soldiers and where it would be easily seen that there was an entitlement and Rolls were marked to this effect ?

[roughdiamond]

Could you post an image of the page?

 

On the 1914 Star roll for my Gt Gt Uncle,  of the 11 men named on the page, all of whom are entitled to the Bar, 4 have a very feint blue C, far lighter in colour than the other writing on the page, however only 2 including my relative were assumed KIA 11/11/14, of the other 2 with a feint blue C, 1 was a POW who survived, the other was KIA 12/03/17. In all 4 cases on their MIC under a printed heading "Action Taken" is the identical hand written entry "Clasps/2/2638". This could be a reference used only for those who'd Died.

 

Of the other 7, 6 have a reference for their Clasp & Roses which is different from the roll reference for their Star, BW & V medals, these include another surviving POW.

 

The column for the other who was discharged on 16/11/17 is blank, his MIC has no Clasp & Roses reference so I can only assume he hadn't applied for it.

 

Another Gt Gt Uncle who survived is one of 12 listed for the 1914 Star all of whom were entitled to a Bar, of those 7 Died, only 2 have a blue C in the last column, 1 in 1914 the other 1915. Of the other 5, 2 Died 1915, 2 in 1916 and 1 in 1917.

 

Sam

[Coldstreamer]

I always thought letter represented what happened to medal, is issued,presented, returned etc

[roughdiamond]

13 hours ago, Coldstreamer said:

I always thought letter represented what happened to medal, is issued,presented, returned etc

 

That's the 2nd last column titled "Record of disposal of decoration", the categories which include a date are: -

A = Presented.

B = Despatched by post.

C = Taken into stock.

 

Of the first 11 I quoted who were Scots Guards, the man KIA in 1917 fell into cat B, the other 2 KIA 1914 including my relative were both cat C and I can confirm his was posted to his Widow.

2 had theirs presented (cat A) in 1920, at a guess they'd still be serving.

1 was sent by post (cat B).

The rest were cat C, all "Taken into stock" on 08/04/1919.

 

Of the 12 quoted after that who were R Dubs, all were either Dead or Discharged between 1914 and 1917 and all fell into cat B, the date for all being posted given as 13/05/1919.

 

As an aside, another Gt Uncle who was A&SH like the other 11 men on his page all of whom were entitled to the 1914-15 Star have this column blank.

 

Sam

[theodore]

Thank you all for your feedback regards my posting about 14 Star Roll.  

Attached 1914 Star Roll that shows 4 men killed 1914 with the blue letter 'C' marked on last column.

Plenty of other remarks regarding when Clasp & Roses was awarded etc. but the single letter 'C' is a mystery to me.

Interesting that on 14 Star Rolls regarding officers died 1914 that I have checked no letter 'C' marked. Is it just for OR soldiers?

Regards

 

Peter

Edited 16 February , 2018 by theodore

[kenf48]

On the page posted where there is a 'C' the mic has a reference to the Clasp with a similar admin reference to that noted by Sam at Post 3 i.e. 'Clasp/2/2720'

 

The two men at the bottom of the page (Brown and Beale)  who do not  have  'C'  against their name do not have this notation on their mic and therefore the recipients did not apply for the Clasp

 

You would probably need a bigger sample but it would seem to support the hypothesis put forward by Sam in post 3.

 

Ken

[roughdiamond]

On 31/01/2018 at 20:39, theodore said:

On 1914 Star Rolls the last column with heading 'To be left blank for use in War Office' a blue 'C' is marked if a soldier had died (KiA, DoW etc.) in 1914. Soldiers killed in other years (15-18) do not have this 'C' marked.

 

 

Peter

The image you uploaded in your post #6 contradicts your statement above as Pte Beale at the bottom of the page was KIA 1914 and has no blue C in the last column.

 

Sam

[Derek Black]

See the Black Watch roll with note.

 

 

[theodore]

Sam

As you point out Pte Beale does not have a 'C' and did die November 1914. I can't explain in this case but I have found that a death in 1914 always had a blue 'C' marked in last column (on the 14 Star Roll 2nd Bn. Worcesters that I have been researching).

The post by Derek regards Black Watch roll is of interest in that a death in 1914 and 15 is marked, in these cases with 'C1' which I have not seen before. The attached note seems to show that the marks 'C' to 'C5' refer to the award of a clasp to the 14 Star medal. It was my understanding that the clasp had to be applied for and in many cases a soldier/relative would request this many years later. 

 

Regards

 

Peter

[kenf48]

There is a similar note inside the front cover of this volume of the 2nd Worcester 14 Star Roll

 

I daresay if you totalled all the 'C's and then cross referenced them with the mic and the notation Clasp/2/2720 they would come to 187 names

 

Ken

Edited 17 February , 2018 by kenf48

[theodore]

Thanks Ken

 

Have checked a few pages but don't have the time to cross check all to confirm the total 187 from the 130 pages but sure it would be correct. At least now I know a little bit more regards 1914 Star Rolls.

 

Regards

 

Peter