Alan24 Posted 31 January , 2018 Share Posted 31 January , 2018 Just wondering if the photo below could possibly be Douglas Scott DALRYMPLE-CLARK, MC KIA 15 Sept. 1916. I understand he was attached to 122 Trench Mortar Battery at the time. Regards Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 12 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2018 Looking through the document attached to his CWGC page, it's interesting the see that his body was not recovered until Feb 1931. Found in a single grave with two other 18KRRC Officers ,Walton & Matthews, the latter a Winchester man. He almost certainly was identified by a ring which had the engraving “I.F.C.N.H. to D.S.D.C. 14th July 1915”. This corresponds with his wedding to Irene Florence Charlotte Norton-Harper on 14 July 1915. He was from Pietermaritzburg, Natal which may explain why I can't find too much about him. The picture comes from a group picture of 122 Trench Mortar Battery showing men from 18KRRC, 15 Hants, 11 Royal West Kent, 12 East Surrey, the battalions which made up 122 Brigade. Prior to this, I had assumed that men in the TMBs were made up of RGA men...maybe that was later, bearing in mind I think that 122 TMB was quite newly formed when this photo was taken. I believe DSDC was the o/c of 122 TMB. If I could prove he is this man in the picture, it would date the photo nicely to between July 1916 and 14 Sept 1916. Regards Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 12 April , 2018 Share Posted 12 April , 2018 Alan He was in command of 122 TMB, which was made up of a selection of men from all the battalions in the Brigade. Although his body may have been found in 1931, he was never missing. As this letter attached shows, he and the other officers were known to be buried. Mike Dalrymple-Clark.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 12 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2018 Thanks Mike That's a great document find. Where is it from? His file at the NA? regards Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 13 April , 2018 Share Posted 13 April , 2018 Hi Alan Yes, it's from his Service Record. If you want more information, PM me with your email address and I'll try and send it to you. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 April , 2018 Share Posted 13 April , 2018 (edited) To supplement the Service Record you'll get from Mike, here's Dalrymple-Clark's Obituary from the 1916 KRRC Chronicle ... Quote CAPT. DOUGLAS SCOTT DALRYMPLE-CLARK, M.C. Was the only son of Mr. Robert R. D. Clark, M.A., of Maritzburg College, Natal, where he was educated, and grandson of the late Gen. Sir W. H. Sewell, K.C.B. He belonged to the Natal Carabiniers, with whom he served for some years, and later joined the police, being wounded in the Johannesburg riots. Upon the outbreak of war he joined a cavalry regiment, and served under General Botha in German South-West Africa. At the termination of that campaign he came to England, and joined the Cameron Highlanders, transferring from them to The King's Royal Rifles. On June 10th, 1916, he went to the rescue of four men, three of whom were saved, for which he received the Military Cross and promotion. [Source: KRRC Chronicle, 1916, p.352] His grandfather, rumoured to be an illegimate son of George IV is an interesting character and worth investigating. He was a junior staff officer in the Peninsular War and in mid-century became Colonel of the Cameron Highlanders, which probably explains why Douglas joined them on his arrival in England. The 18th Battalion War Record in that same volume gives further detail on his death: Quote On the night of 14th September the Battalion moved up to Tea Trench, and took up battle positions. <snip> We were mst unfortunate, as just as the attack was about to commence the Commanding Officer (lieut.-Colonel C. P. Marten), Adjutant (Captain F. Walton), Signalling Officer (Lieut. W.S. Matthews), and Trench Mortar Officer (Lieut. D.S.D. Clarke) were all killed by one shell. [Source: ibid. , p.276] The 18th Battalion War Record go on to state (p.278) he received the DSO (describing there as Captain) sometime between May and December 1916. An MC is not mentioned. The Roll of Honour in the same volume lists Lieut. D.S.D. Clark under the MC, but not the DSO, so clearly there is an error behind these discrepancies somewhere. Some easy LG work should resolve that if needed. Apologies, but he's not in any of my 18/KRRC officers pictures. Your image certainly could be a Lieutenant or Captain of the 60th, but a close-up of the medal ribbons and the apparent insignia on his upper right arm could give useful extra info. I'm not sure what medals we might expect on a police professional with colonial military experience, possibly including the Boer War, and who had already gone through the SW Africa Campaign! Mark Edited 13 April , 2018 by MBrockway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 13 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2018 Thanks Mark, Unfortunately, no rank insignia on his sleeve! Medal Ribbons don't blow up much but there seems to be more than just an MC. He's definitely got the 'Cherry Boss'? cap badge. I think in the 122 IB diary it gave the strength of the TMB as having 3 officers, of which there are 3 in the photo (no officer from 15 Hants). The number of ORs in the photo is slightly less than stated in the war diary. Haven't got the diary to hand at the moment. Nice examples of 3" Stokes Mortars each side. LG 14 April 1916 " KRRC 2Lt. (temp Lt.) DSD Clark from Lond, R TF to be Temp Lt. 14 Mar 1916." LG of 8th Sept. shows that he was "Temp. Lt. made Temp. Capt. whilst employed with Trench Mortar Btys. as of 9th June 1916" One reason for not finding him earlier is that he seems to be listed under Clark not Dalrymple-Clark. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 April , 2018 Share Posted 13 April , 2018 Douglas Scott Dalrymple Clark appears to have been born in Natal on 09 Jul 1884, which would make him rather young to have a QSA. Also I have found this photo on a genealogy site that purports to be him and is clearly not the chap in our photo ... [Source: https://www.geni.com/people/Douglas-Clark/6000000004171733536] If the identification of DSDC on the genealogy site is reliable, then I fear we are back to the drawing board on identifying our KRR officer. I wondered if the chap in the glengarry could be Cameron Highlanders, which would be a nice tie-in to Douglas joining the QOCH on reaching England, but it could also be civilian Highland dress - a tweed Argyle jacket with glengarry and a clan crest and probably a kilt. Not enough visible in the photo to be sure. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 April , 2018 Share Posted 13 April , 2018 Alan - do you have an approximate date for your photo? I have another hare running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 April , 2018 Share Posted 13 April , 2018 3 hours ago, Alan24 said: Thanks Mark, Unfortunately, no rank insignia on his sleeve! Medal Ribbons don't blow up much but there seems to be more than just an MC. He's definitely got the 'Cherry Boss'? cap badge. I think in the 122 IB diary it gave the strength of the TMB as having 3 officers, of which there are 3 in the photo (no officer from 15 Hants). The number of ORs in the photo is slightly less than stated in the war diary. Haven't got the diary to hand at the moment. Nice examples of 3" Stokes Mortars each side. LG 14 April 1916 " KRRC 2Lt. (temp Lt.) DSD Clark from Lond, R TF to be Temp Lt. 14 Mar 1916." LG of 8th Sept. shows that he was "Temp. Lt. made Temp. Capt. whilst employed with Trench Mortar Btys. as of 9th June 1916" One reason for not finding him earlier is that he seems to be listed under Clark not Dalrymple-Clark. Alan. He does seem to have a flaming grenade TMB insignia on his right upper arm though. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 April , 2018 Share Posted 13 April , 2018 Quote CAPT. DOUGLAS SCOTT DALRYMPLE-CLARK, M.C. Was the only son of Mr. Robert R. D. Clark, M.A., of Maritzburg College, Natal, where he was educated, and grandson of the late Gen. Sir W. H. Sewell, K.C.B. He belonged to the Natal Carabiniers, with whom he served for some years, and later joined the police, being wounded in the Johannesburg riots. Upon the outbreak of war he joined a cavalry regiment, and served under General Botha in German South-West Africa. At the termination of that campaign he came to England, and joined the Cameron Highlanders, transferring from them to The King's Royal Rifles. On June 10th, 1916, he went to the rescue of four men, three of whom were saved, for which he received the Military Cross and promotion. Biog from ~1906 of Douglas's father, Robert Douglas Clark, who it seems was a New College man and clearly an ardent ex-pat Scot. ! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 13 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2018 1 hour ago, MBrockway said: Alan - do you have an approximate date for your photo? I have another hare running Mark All I know is that it is supposed to have been taken on the Somme. Therefore would assume summer 1916 but can not be earlier than June 1916. Written the back in purple pencil by unknown persons is "Good job we've got a ***** Navy." I assume this ties in with the LG date noted of 9th June. The LG suggests that he came to 18KRRC via the London Regiment TF not the CH. Is the LG incorrect? Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 April , 2018 Share Posted 13 April , 2018 Sorry Alan - I haven't checked that angle as yet and I'm closing down now as off for the weekend. I'll look up his medal roll entry next week and check the Army Lists - that should cast some light on that. Certainly a transfer from London Regiment would be more common that from the QOCH. The other hare I'm chasing for a possible match to your man would require the photo to be 1917 or later - I've sent you a PM about that. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 14 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2018 On 13/04/2018 at 09:39, MBrockway said: . I'm not sure what medals we might expect on a police professional with colonial military experience, possibly including the Boer War, and who had already gone through the SW Africa Campaign! Mark In his NA file there is a reference to him taking part in 'The Rebellion' whilst with Natal Mounted Rifles. A google search shows this took place in 1906. A medal was issued but the ribbon was crimson and black, those in the photo quite pale. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 14 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2018 Looking at the service record, that Mike kindly sent over, of the man, there appears to be two separate applications for a temporary commission for the duration of the war. The two applications were made less than two weeks apart. His service in South Africa do not match completely within the two documents and neither so service with the police, although the local Militia could have acted like a Police Force perhaps. It is possible that his first application was turned down and he never served with the Cameron Highlands and that he was sent to ‘8 Buffs’ and the application was rewritten retrospectively. So maybe the LG is correct over the KRRC Chronicle that he came to 18/KRRC from ‘London’ and not the Cameron Highlanders. Dated 27th May 1915 Natal Militia (Natal Carabiners Trooper) 1902-5 Natal Civil Service 1904-5 Clerk Colonial Secretary’s Office Natal Militia (Natal Royal Regt.) 1907-12 (Appointed Lt. 17.09.09, Resigned 10.05.12 on leaving the Colony vide Union of South Africa Government Gazette) Trooper Natal Mounted Rifles Sept. 1914 to Jan 1915 taking part in Rebellion. Desirous of being appointed to ‘79th Cameron Highlanders or other Highland unit’ Dated 7th June 1915 Colonial Secretary’s Department Natal 1902-3 Natal Carabiners 1902-5 (Term of service completed) Natal Royal Regt. 1907-10 (Appointed Lt. 18.09.09, Resigned 06.10.10 on leaving the Colony) Desirous of being appointed to ‘8/The Buffs’ Accepted for a temporary commission in the Regular Army for the period of the war at Shoreham by ‘8th Service Batt. The Buffs.’ 4th June 1915 which predates his application! Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 27 March , 2020 Share Posted 27 March , 2020 Alan, New material has come to light from Pal mrfrank in the form of an 18/KRRC Officer group taken in Aldershot. Highly likely to be a pre-embarkation portrait before they went out in May 1916. The photo is unnamed sadly, but a chap in the back row appears to be a very good match to the unconfirmed photo of Clark in Glengarry I posted above. If the chap in the glengarry is Clark, then I don't think the TMB officer in your photo can be the same man. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 27 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 27 March , 2020 Mark, Thanks for that. His right ear has the same jaunty angle. Looks like the same man. However, I'm confused as to why he is wearing the Glengarry. In his service record MT393 shows he applied for a temporary commission for duration of the war on 27th May 1915 with "79th Cameron Highlanders or other Highland unit" but appears not to have joined this unit. On June 7th he applied again to the 8/Buffs at Shoreham-on-Sea in which he was accepted before joining 18/KRRC. Just before joining 18/KRRC on 14 March 1916 (LG 3921 14th April 1916) he was with the London Regt TF - Could this be 14th London (Scottish) - did they wear the Glengarry? In South Africa he was Lt. with Natal Royal Regt./Natal Mounted Rifles/Natal Carabiniers - does the Glengarry relate to any of those? Perhaps my man will remain a mystery for now. Maybe he took over command of 122 TMB after September 1916? Certainly looks like a C.O. Regards Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 27 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 27 March , 2020 Just to help answer my own question... This pic of London Scottish does appear to have the same fluffy backing behind the cap badge. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 27 March , 2020 Share Posted 27 March , 2020 Yes, the London Scottish did wear the glengarry. However, if I were forced to put money on it, I'd suggest the chap with the jaunty ears is wearing a Cameron Highlanders badge. It has a void in it at the top which the LS badge doesn't. Don't worry about the 'fluffy' nature of whatever's behind: it will be the silk rosette backing to the badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 27 March , 2020 Share Posted 27 March , 2020 I agree with Steven. Having done a lot more digging into this mystery, I have discovered an uncropped version of the photo - see below. It is from his marriage on 14 Jul 1915 to Irene Florence Charlotte NORTON-HARPER, who was also his cousin, each being grandchildren of General Sir William Sewell, In 1854, grandfather General Sewell was made Colonel of the 79th Regiment of Foot (Cameron Highlanders), a post he held till his death in 1862. An interest in a commission in the QOCH therefore is understandable! The marriage is registered in the Long Ashton RD, which includes Clevedon, Somerset, mentioned on Clark's MIC, but the banns were read at St Luke's, Battersea. From the 1901 and 1911 censuses, the Norton-Harpers appear to have had a London house at 25 Kyrle Road, Clapham, which is 400 yds from St Luke's. Clark appears to be dressed as a 2/Lt of the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders. [Original is here ©Martin Ranulph Langley] Plain glengarry without dicing. Kilt definitely has a tartan sett, and is not Hodden Grey, so cannot be London Scottish. With the usual caveats re unpredictable tone rendering of Great War film stock, I'd say the sett could well be Cameron of Erracht. . Sporran has two white tassles on a black hair dark background and the sporran badge looks right for the QOCH. Close up of sporran badge ... ... and here's a close-up of the broadsword basket hilt in case more expert eyes can see regimental differences here ... Obviously recently back from Natal and still finding his feet, Douglas must have only gradually come to realise that the 60th was definitely the best regiment to join! I just hope he was able to sell his Cameron rig back to his tailor. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 28 March , 2020 Share Posted 28 March , 2020 The bride appears to have a Cameron badge at the end of the ribbon attached to the flowers she's holding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 28 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2020 Thanks again Mark. Great picture find. Thanks also Steven for your added input. Going back to the original postcard of 122TMB, this must be post-Somme. Regards Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 March , 2020 Share Posted 28 March , 2020 18 minutes ago, Alan24 said: Going back to the original postcard of 122TMB, this must be post-Somme. Regards Alan. I'm working on a possible candidate for the 60th officer in your photo, but finding it very difficult to get the proper corroboration needed to go public! Has anyone managed to locate the war diaries of the brigade Stokes mortar batteries in 41st Div? I've found the diaries of the three divisional heavy TMBs, but those for 122, 123 and 124 TMBs are proving very elusive Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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