IWM & Peter Jackson Restore Film Footage - They Shall Not Grow Old

[simond9x]

1 hour ago, slick63 said:

I was glued to the tv for the whole programme, must be the first time in a long time that the box has had me that enthralled. One part that caught my eye was the chaps walking past what looked like a destroyed bunker, one of the chaps was tapping the one in front on his steel helmet with a long stick as they walked along. It was so unexpected that it gave me a chuckle.

Yes, I’d seen that footage before in B&W but not noticed that he was doing that. Ditto the two birds that get shoo’d away from the men at rest. There are also some scenes where you can see 100s of men advancing (?) in the far distance, detail that again I hadn’t noticed before.

[Madmeg]

The interview with Peter J that was shown in NZ he said that the journalists were far less controlled - at least in the early years. And so men with cameras just rocked up to the battlezone and filmed whatever took their fancy. The men they were filming would be chatting and laughing with the cameraman but of course it was all silent.  So much of the footage was the behind the scenes of the war "here's are boys at the front" type of thing to be shown to the families back home. Obviously cinema was quite a novel technology in those days. 

There has been a lot of interest over here what with Sir PJ being one of our own- but... obviously the Beeb commissioned it and are hanging on to it :-(

 

[seaJane]

8 hours ago, Stuart T said:

Jane, agreed about the Navy but it's Palestine I'm really hankering after.

There was a programme about the Australian Horse that featured Palestine - it was repeated at eek! o'clock this morning but still on iPlayer:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b094f4tl/great-war-horses

 

Zilch about Mesopotamia that I have noticed. Or RND on the Western Front. Indeed, there could be a fascinating programme/series simply about what those who came back from Scott's and Shackleton's Antarctic expeditions did in the war - Atkinson, Levick, Crean ...

[Stuart T]

I'll look at that, thanks.  My grandad was a little further west, just south of Gaza for a short while.  There were some RND men credited at the end of Jackson's film.

[seaJane]

9 hours ago, Stuart T said:

Jane, agreed about the Navy but it's Palestine I'm really hankering after.

There was a programme about the Australian Horse that featured Palestine.

 

Zilch about Mesopotamia that I have noticed.

44 minutes ago, Stuart T said:

There were some RND men credited at the end of Jackson's film.

So there were! Some RNAS, too.

[seaJane]

Sorry about that - editing fingers fail

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Don't know if it's already been covered, but at 43:55 is a clip from a rugby match.

There's no mistaking the team wearing All Black.

Familiar Silver Fern, although you will note that it's tip is pointing slightly down and to the wearer's left.

Broad white collars, and two white hoops at the top end of each sock.

These are I think a New Zealand Army team from early 1917, nicknamed the Trench All Blacks, or the Trench Blacks.

An interesting clip, which shows (I think) Reg Taylor standing at the back of a lineout (far right of screen).

Killed in action at Messines June 20th 1917.

Maybe also Ranji Wilson ain middle of line.

Any NZ experts out there seen it?

http://rugbymuseum.co.nz/tdih-april-8-1917-trench-blacks-vs-france/

Edited 16 November , 2018 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[IPT]

It's harder than it looks

 

 

credit New Zealand Rugby Museum

The Trench Blacks. Standing: Lt-Col. Arthur Plugge, William Bright (reserve), Reg Taylor, Jim Moffitt, Ranji Wilson, Dick Fogarty, George Murray (captain), Les Cockroft, Tom French, Charles King, Edmond Ryan, Bert Adams, Capt. Tom Lawless. Seated: Norman Stead, John McIntyre, George Owles, Charles Brown, Billy Wilson (reserve), Torp Whittington, Arthur Wilson (Assistant manager).

[Madmeg]

Arthur plugge - http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE10546049

James Moffitt- http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE10846008

Richard Fogarty- http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE19399329

George Owles- http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE17203744

?Edmond Ryan- http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE19356297

"Ranji" Wilson- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranji_Wilson  https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search?Path=querySubmit.m%3fReportName%3dBirthSearch%26recordsPP%3d30#SearchResults

Norman farrell Stead- http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE20104250

 

The others should also be on Archway but there are several entries under common names - "Torp" is obviously a nickname....

Edited 17 November , 2018 by Madmeg
more info

[Madmeg]

for those that want more on the Trench blacks...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11833922

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/great-war-stories-ranji-wilson-2016

[Aneurin]

The very brief rugby clip was taken from a film of a match played by the New Zealand Divisional Representative Trench Team  against the 38th (Welsh) Division on 15 March 1917. The New Zealanders won 18-3, though  a replay shortly afterwards was much closer when they won 3-0.

 

Revealing how much care was taken with the colourisation of the film, I was contacted by one of the producers earlier in the year who asked about the colour of the shorts worn by the Welsh Division team that day. If you look closely, you can see a red dragon on the white jerseys of the Welsh players. 

 

Details of the Welsh team are unknown, though it is believed the international wing, Major Brinley  Lewis (Swansea and Cambridge University) played in one or both matches. He was killed in action serving in the RFA very shortly afterwards. 

 

The New Zealand Division XV was: G. Scott, E Ryan, G Murray, H Adams, J McIntyre, S Cameron, C Brown, R Casey, R Fogerty, A (Ranji) Wilson, L Cockcroft, J Moffitt, C King, W Bell, K Taylor. 

 

Gwyn

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Thanks for all your replies.

Fascinating.

[IPT]

For anyone interested, there are a couple of minutes of the original footage here, from about 13.44 - https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060022696

 

Edited 17 November , 2018 by IPT
Numbers

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Wonderful.

 

[simond9x]

According to a couple of reviewers on Amazon, the film will be released only in 2D on DVD and Bluray. Somewhat disappointing - I've seen both versions and the subtle use of 3D definitely added to the feeling of 'being there'.

[Simon_Fielding]

Has there been any attempt to identify time and place and even individuals in the film, as in 'Ghosts of the Somme'? I would love to know who the soldier playing the bottle was...were the soldiers with the child Gloucestershire Regiment? Perhaps we could 'crowd source' it scene by scene when the DVD comes out...

[Clear Bell]

Simon,

 

I watched on iplayer - and recognised the footage of the soldier playing a beer bottle and the men singing along to an accordion immediately. It is an excerpt from IWM held footage of the The Buffs (east Kent Regiment. The short film it comes from is one I've watched many, many times. In my view it's just utterly rivetting despite it being mostly soldiers marching.  Somewhere else on the GWF I had wondered whether PJ and his digital artists would look at the passage of the film with a group of officers standing alongside each other chatting away. It's so frustrating not being able to work out what they are saying - any lip readers out there? It's about 2.33 mins in:

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060022865

 

Hope you like it as much as I do..

 

Does the footage show the entire regiment or certain battalions? Any way of telling?

[ShirlD]

Just returned from seeing this in the cinema at Piccadilly Circus - beautifully executed, thought provoking, horrifying and utterly moving as you remind yourself this is exactly how it was. The stark line at the end ‘filmed on location in Europe 1914-1918’ made me catch my breath. Don’t know that I could watch it again .

[Open Bolt]

One of the voices used was Douglas Wimberley (later CO 51st Division in the Second World War) - contrast this to the ...erm.. very down to earth actor's voice supplied for him in the BBC's 100 Days to Victory.

[Gunner Bailey]

On 12/11/2018 at 18:30, johnboy said:

I thought it was very good, was so engrosed I did not have time to note any faults| 

 

I tend to agree. I saw it for the first time a couple of days ago. The only error I perceived was the seeming mix up with commentary and footage which mixed the tanks at Cambrai (numbers) with the Somme in 1916.

 

Other than that I found it hypnotic.

 

With regards to teeth, I was amazed to see officers with appalling mouthfuls of teeth. I sort of expected it for the soldiers but not officers as well.

 

They must have just smiled at the Germans to get them to surrender.

[Anneca]

Absolutely amazing!! About the teeth in the last post, I was amazed to see many so young with so few teeth.  On reflection I reckon if they had toothache in those days fillings were not available and as a result every tooth causing pain was just yanked out. 

[4thGordons]

Just bought tickets for a showing here in the US on Dec 17th. There are only two days it is being shown(17th and 27th) and 2 showing times each day.

When I was going to the website to purchase the tickets I ran across this (apparently new) longer trailer....

 

https://taskandpurpose.com/new-trailer-for-they-shall-not-grow-old-is-epic/

 

Now I am really looking forward to it.

Chris

Edited 27 November , 2018 by 4thGordons

[Black Maria]

59 minutes ago, Anneca said:

Absolutely amazing!! About the teeth in the last post, I was amazed to see many so young with so few teeth.  On reflection I reckon if they had toothache in those days fillings were not available and as a result every tooth causing pain was just yanked out. 

I was reading an officer's memoir recently where he visited a dentist in France and had a filling . I think this is the only time I've heard of this , usually

in the other books I've read the offending tooth / teeth were , like you say , just removed . I remember reading somewhere that around this period a

young person would have all their teeth removed as a twenty first birthday present .

 

[Captain RHW]

In the late 1920s George Bernard Shaw was head of the BBC pronunciation committee. He insisted on the modern pronunciation of “canine” ie cay-nine, not can-in as was the general useage, since his dentist said cay-nine. “Good lord, Shaw, is your dentist American?” asked one of the committee. “Of course”, Shaw replied, “why do you think I still have all my teeth?”

[Madmeg]

20 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said:

 

I tend to agree. I saw it for the first time a couple of days ago. The only error I perceived was the seeming mix up with commentary and footage which mixed the tanks at Cambrai (numbers) with the Somme in 1916.

 

Other than that I found it hypnotic.

 

With regards to teeth, I was amazed to see officers with appalling mouthfuls of teeth. I sort of expected it for the soldiers but not officers as well.

 

They must have just smiled at the Germans to get them to surrender.

Of course by later in the war there would have been more men commissioned from the ranks. 

Imagine having tootthache to add to all the other troubles of the trenches!

 

a link on another thread just sent me here- the second postermade me giggle....

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/11-amazing-first-world-war-recruitment-posters

Edited 28 November , 2018 by Madmeg