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Derek Black

IWM & Peter Jackson Restore Film Footage - They Shall Not Grow Old

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thetrenchrat22
18 hours ago, Captain RHW said:

Is there likely to be a 'sequel'?  Jackson mentioned that they'd worked on hundreds of hours of footage.  If not, will the IWM make it available online? 

 

WW2 footage maybe 

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phil andrade

One thing bothers me about Peter Jackson’s rendition in the Q&A: his persistent emphasis on the camaraderie between soldiers that spanned the gulf between belligerents and made the British and German soldiers sympathise with each other as fellow victims.

 

The allusion  he makes to the assiduous attention lavished  by German prisoners on British wounded exemplifies this.

 

Wise was the enemy prisoner who was quick to help carry British wounded.  Didn’t this reflect  a wish for self preservation as much as it did a sense of sympathy ? A frightened man will do much to curry favour with his captors.

 

Aware that this makes me appear cynical, I reiterate my great praise for the film.

 

Phil

 

 

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Captain RHW

Yes good point. The killing of prisoners suggests the camaraderie wasn’t quite so widespread, and even the famous 1914 truce didn’t span the entire front by any means. 

As for WWII sequel - probably wouldn’t have the same impact as film footage much better quality and there was a decent amount of actual colour footage filmed then as well. Mind you, restoration by Jackson of Concentration Camp footage would be really something, and close to unwatchable for most I imagine. 

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Fattyowls
1 hour ago, phil andrade said:

Aware that this makes me appear cynical, I reiterate my great praise for the film.

 

Not cynical at all, balanced I would say.

 

Pete.

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SiegeGunner
1 hour ago, phil andrade said:

One thing bothers me about Peter Jackson’s rendition in the Q&A: his persistent emphasis on the camaraderie between soldiers that spanned the gulf between belligerents and made the British and German soldiers sympathise with each other as fellow victims.

 

The allusion  he makes to the assiduous attention lavished  by German prisoners on British wounded exemplifies this.

 

Wise was the enemy prisoner who was quick to help carry British wounded.  Didn’t this reflect  a wish for self preservation as much as it did a sense of sympathy ? A frightened man will do much to curry favour with his captors.

 

German interrogation reports regularly mention the surprise of British prisoners at the treatment they received at the hands of their captors.  If an attack or raid had finished and the sector was quiet and the Germans did not have large numbers of wounded of their own to attend to, prisoners are often quoted (sometime verbatim remarks in English) as saying that they had been told prisoners would be ill-treated and perhaps even killed, so they were amazed when German soldiers gave them something to drink and a cigarette and dressed the lightly-wounded while their medics concentrated on the seriously wounded.  

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Captain RHW

Alec Waugh's memoir of life as a prisoner showed the Germans generally treated them ok but, by 1918, were suffering so much themselves that there was an inevitable food shortage.  The German provincial rivalries could work to the advantage of prisoners, eg the Bavarians hated the Prussians more than the English.  Most of the time the Germans were keen to impress upon the prisoners that Germany was the victim and not at fault for the war. 

 

A diversion I know, so apologies, but I have also heard recently from a German historian that despite the horrendously low number of survivors of the sixth army at Stalingrad, the Germans were treated well by their captors upon surrendering.  What the Russians had, they shared, but the problem was (i) the Russians were so deprived themselves, and (ii) the Germans were in such terrible shape few survived the 2km walk to the rail station. 

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phil andrade

Peter Jackson, if memory serves me, goes on  record as saying that the war was, in the final reckoning, “ pointless “.

 

The tenor of the film is very much in support of that interpretation.  It tends to impart the view that an inordinate number of soldiers enlisted under age ; that there was a bond of sympathy between the British and German troops ; that  the impulse towards decency was apparent even in the trauma of battle and its aftermath. The effort is based on making us identify with those men, and anything that accentuates their vulnerability and victimhood  - the emphasis on the underage soldiers comes to the fore - is made more striking when we appreciate how universal was their decency and humour.

 

I feel a bit circumspect about that depiction ; but I must admit that the film works superbly as an emotional tour de force.

 

Phil

 

 

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Captain RHW

It was nowhere near as bad on that front as I had feared.  After going to the new Army museum in Chelsea I dread anything new presented to a mass audience.  I feared that this film would have a load of anti-war poetry and infer that it was nothing but lions and donkeys etc, but I didn't get that impression from the actual film at all. 

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Black Maria
1 hour ago, Captain RHW said:

Alec Waugh's memoir of life as a prisoner showed the Germans generally treated them ok but, by 1918, were suffering so much themselves that there was an inevitable food shortage. 

He , of course , was an officer . I remember reading 'Tommy at Gommecourt ' and thinking that the way the Germans treated some of the other ranks

was on a par with the treatment meted out by the Japs in WW2 . I remember my mother telling me about my grandfather and great uncle who were

both P.O.W's in WW1 (other ranks) and how my grandfather worked on a farm and was treated okay and my great uncle down a salt mine. Because

of his treatment there he would say afterwards that the only good German was a dead one.

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charlie962

What about restoring film of the 'Forgotten Fronts' ? They could do with some better coverage. PoW treatment might be a problem though.

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phil andrade
2 hours ago, Black Maria said:

He , of course , was an officer . I remember reading 'Tommy at Gommecourt ' and thinking that the way the Germans treated some of the other ranks

was on a par with the treatment meted out by the Japs in WW2 . I remember my mother telling me about my grandfather and great uncle who were

both P.O.W's in WW1 (other ranks) and how my grandfather worked on a farm and was treated okay and my great uncle down a salt mine. Because

of his treatment there he would say afterwards that the only good German was a dead one.

 

Not so close to home for me, but my brother in law’s grandfather was also consigned to some kind of mining work whilst he was a PoW.

 

 

I think that he had been captured in May 1917, probably in one of those big German counter attacks in the secondary phases of the Arras battle.

 

Not sure of location of his captivity,  but I think it was in Eastern Germany, maybe in a place that is now in Poland.

 

He and his pal deliberately scalded their feet in steam so as to escape being sent down the mine.  He was always somewhat lame for the rest of his life.

 

Phil

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Black Maria
1 hour ago, phil andrade said:

 

Not so close to home for me, but my brother in law’s grandfather was also consigned to some kind of mining work whilst he was a PoW.

 

 

I think that he had been captured in May 1917, probably in one of those big German counter attacks in the secondary phases of the Arras battle.

 

Not sure of location of his captivity,  but I think it was in Eastern Germany, maybe in a place that is now in Poland.

 

He and his pal deliberately scalded their feet in steam so as to escape being sent down the mine.  He was always somewhat lame for the rest of his life.

 

Phil

Goes to show how bad the conditions down the mine must have been for them to go to those lengths to try and avoid going down .

There is a good memoir by a soldier of the London regiment who was captured at Vimy Ridge in early 1916 and put to work down

a coal mine . It's called 'They also served ' by Cecil Thomas , unfortunately though, it's quite rare.

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Scalyback

Managed to get the last two tickets for the local showing to me. Just the film to be shown, no Q&A. Will the Q&A be released with the schools DVD? 

 

 

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phil andrade

Having seen this wonderful effort on behalf of British tradition of the Great War, I’m wondering whether we might see something equivalent from other nations.

 

Imagine a French counterpart .

 

Might there be a German attempt ?

 

That would be something.

 

Phil

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Captain RHW

Indeed. I wonder if there might be the same for the footage of Belsen etc in the Second World War. Can anyone imagine how brutal that would be? 

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Scalyback

Powerful stuff. I enjoyed the film in a very quiet cinema. Guys come in with buckets of popcorn, left with them still full. 

 

With the detail added from colour I must say, there was some shocking teeth on show. 

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GrenPen

The IWM are showing this twice a day, 5pm and 7pm, from 25 to 31 October at Lambeth. I got to see it today, and for free. It's part of their film festival.

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Derek Black
21 hours ago, GrenPen said:

The IWM are showing this twice a day, 5pm and 7pm, from 25 to 31 October at Lambeth. I got to see it today, and for free. It's part of their film festival.

 

Oh to live near the Capital and enjoy what the nations national museums can offer.

I hope those of you within affordable traveling distance take advantage of them frequently.

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Skipman

Pete Hart posted this on Facebook; some good points raised here Click

 

Mike

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GrenPen

The bigger elephant in the room, as I see it, is that the IWM/Wingnut production team does not seem to have involved Peter Hart. Given his considerable experience in oral history, and the importance of oral history underpinning this project, it is very amiss.

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dah

100% recommended. 

 

Saw today in 3D - and was spellbound throughout (despite being familiar with much of the original b&w footage). The addition of sound, voices, colour and delivering in a modern 24 frames-per-second  format......is stunning.

 

I'll record the BBC2 TV showing tomorrow (11-11-18) and hope that 2D conveys a similarly powerful impression. 

 

Very grateful to everyone concerned for this excellent addition to remembrance and appreciation of WW1

 

David

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Medaler

Just seen this tonight and found it breathtaking. The restoration, colouring and soundtrack were excellent. I even enjoyed the 3D - particularly on the footage of the tanks. As pointed out elsewhere the dentistry was appalling, but wasn't it said that they used their tooth brushes to clean their buttons? That led me into thinking that they must then have used their buttons to clean their teeth.

 

Seriously, a wonderful addition to the filmography of the Great War. It gives us something that we didn't have before, and that something is worthwhile.

 

The least impressive part was the Q&A. As talented as Jackson is at his craft, he's no historian. I rather fancy however that he wouldn't claim to be one. It does however muddy the waters when he expresses his views on the war. Watch the film, enjoy it, but don't take any notice of the opinions that he expresses. On a positive note, he has obviously been on something of a personal journey of remembrance whilst working on this project, and there is nothing fake about his sincerity.

 

Mike

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Captain RHW

I don’t have terrestrial tv anymore, it’s all online - will the BBC put it on iPlayer? 

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Keerthi  K.  Green
7 hours ago, Captain RHW said:

I don’t have terrestrial tv anymore, it’s all online - will the BBC put it on iPlayer? 

Its  kindly  request  and much  thankful  if  you  could  disclose  is your newly published  book  have  any  names  of  CPRC  Members (1).  Thomas  Lansaleen  Green  ( 2).  Hernet  Lansaleen  Green   who  served  in  Great  War in 1914-1917 ? 

(1) is my Grand Father,  (2) is my Grand Uncle.

Thank  you, Best  Regards, 

Keerthi K Green

 

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depaor01

Saw it in the cinema. Very impressive. Maybe it was just me, but I thought it was describing events in chronological order so I was seeing Brodie and M16 helmets from the beginning and screaming inside. 

Otherwise very thought provoking and the first-hand accounts were riveting.

Dave

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