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RangeRover

Rarity of P-08 web waist belt 'special'?

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RangeRover

I would like to acquire an example of the web belt used for pistol equipment. Based on my search thus far that they are thin on the ground compared to the standard 08 waist belt, but how thin? What's the likelihood of finding one, and what should I expect to pay? (your local market prices will be useful).

 

Thanks.

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mark holden

Hard to find. There is one on a dealers site below no idea if this reflects current values. I bought mine some years ago for £200 (when normal 08 belts were £20-30).

 

http://www.brittonatwar.co.uk/viewphoto.php?shoph=61442&phqu=6

 

 

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RangeRover

Wow! Okay, then. I need to start putting money away in the piggy bank. Thanks for the info.

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Grovetown

Personally, I think that is grossly overpriced and not a brilliant example at that. Should be half perhaps?

 

However, having acquired the belt; you will be looking at something like £1000 and possibly upwards for the brace attachments.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

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mark holden

GT,

 

I think you are closer to the actual value it made my eyes hurt when I saw the price on the site! I just have not seen that many Belt Specials for sale. I must say your estimate on the brace attachments bowled me over but I confess I have not seen any for sale anywhere in 5 years.

 

kind regards

 

Mark 

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RangeRover

Alrighty-then. Not a cheap adventure to put the full set together, and some patience required as well. Good to know. I appreciate the guidance. Thank you.

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T8HANTS

I think I better view my example in a new light, if thats anything like the going rate.

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wainfleet

That belt has been sitting on the site for a while and at £800 isn't likely to move in the near future. For those with long memories, the now-defunct Lawrence Corner surplus store in Euston had dozens of these in unissued condition and all dated 1918 in the 1980s when nobody knew what they were. Can't remember how much they were but I doubt it was more than a tenner. I'm surprised that price hasn't brought some of them out onto ebay.

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Chasemuseum

For those of us that are a bit older, its amazing where some of the things have gone. In the 80s a Leeds amateur dealer had a large trunk of unused P14 pouches, at GBP30 a pair. He must have had a couple of hundred at least. Where are they now ? Again in 1988 Blunderbuss had full sets of P14 leather, which had been made for an army tattoo in the 1960s. The buckles and rivets were wrong, but they were being sold as a "representation", not as originals. They had lots of these, many dozens. I have not seen a set anywhere for years.

 

I can understand that the old surplus stores were cleared out and lots of gear went to landfill, but so much from the 70s, 80s and 90s that people paid good money for just seems to have entirely disappeared.

Cheers

Ross 

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Grovetown
On 1/16/2018 at 19:38, mark holden said:

GT,

 

I think you are closer to the actual value it made my eyes hurt when I saw the price on the site! I just have not seen that many Belt Specials for sale. I must say your estimate on the brace attachments bowled me over but I confess I have not seen any for sale anywhere in 5 years.

 

kind regards

 

Mark 

 

I recall I paid around £750 for my complete set - and that was 20+ years ago.

 

It's one of the sets shown in Campaign 1915 - assume Chris won't mind me sharing the image.

 

Cheers.

 

GT.

 

 

1908 Pistol Equipment Campaign 1915.jpg

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mark holden

Thanks GT, permission to drool!

 

Mark

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RangeRover

What a great set, GT, and wouldn't it be nice to be able to find a complete set for that price these days...  <sigh>

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RangeRover

Success!

 

I have just acquired the 1918-dated belt, waist, special, Mark II pictured below. The information shared in this thread was very useful in helping me source this example (and, no, it's not the one listed at the dealer in the one response earlier in this thread). Green blanco'd, and found here in Canada for significantly less money than that example, and with the added bonus of being marked to a Canadian Sergeant who served in the 4th CMGC. His records, found online, show him receiving treatment for a gunshot wound to the buttocks in June of 196.

 

Thanks for the info. While I have a 1917-dated P-08 ammunition pouch, and a Mk V Webley (which started this whole journey), the search will continue for the other bits.

 

IMG_8602.jpg

 

Mk_V_-_left.jpg

 

 

Edited by RangeRover
new photo

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mark holden

Very nice. Its always a good feeling to find that elusive piece and at a good price. 

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askar-perisikan
Posted (edited)
On 18/01/2018 at 01:31, Chasemuseum said:

For those of us that are a bit older, its amazing where some of the things have gone. In the 80s a Leeds amateur dealer had a large trunk of unused P14 pouches, at GBP30 a pair. He must have had a couple of hundred at least. Where are they now ? Again in 1988 Blunderbuss had full sets of P14 leather, which had been made for an army tattoo in the 1960s. The buckles and rivets were wrong, but they were being sold as a "representation", not as originals. They had lots of these, many dozens. I have not seen a set anywhere for years.

 

I can understand that the old surplus stores were cleared out and lots of gear went to landfill, but so much from the 70s, 80s and 90s that people paid good money for just seems to have entirely disappeared.

Cheers

Ross 

I actually have a set of the P14 from Blunderbuss, bought about 1992.  I thought they were for the National Army museum originally but they didn't take all the sets.  I'm sure the owner said that , while the leather was new, it was made by the same company as during the war (Lillywhites?) but all the brass fittings were original.

 

cheers

Edited by askar-perisikan
spelling mistake

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Chasemuseum

all the brass fittings were original

 

It is now 30 years since I looked at them but check the 1-inch buckles on the back of the waist belt and the back of the ammunition pouches.

Cheers

Ross

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peregrinvs
On 1/18/2018 at 01:31, Chasemuseum said:

I can understand that the old surplus stores were cleared out and lots of gear went to landfill, but so much from the 70s, 80s and 90s that people paid good money for just seems to have entirely disappeared.

Things can still turn up. E.g. one of my greatest militaria collecting bargains which I made a thread on here:

 

My best guess is that it was a set sold off by a theatrical costumiers circa the late 1980's.

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askar-perisikan
9 hours ago, Chasemuseum said:

all the brass fittings were original

 

It is now 30 years since I looked at them but check the 1-inch buckles on the back of the waist belt and the back of the ammunition pouches.

Cheers

Ross

Ross, will do, but excuse my ignorance, what am I looking for?

 

Cheers

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Chasemuseum

Look at 

http://karkeeweb.com/patterns/1914/components/1914_belts_braces_straps.html

 

The 1-inch buckles are cast brass with a steel tongue. They are round in cross-section with all 4 corners of the buckle with round corners.

The equipment sets I remember at Blunderbuss, had buckles that were very similar to the correct buckles and of similar manufacture however two corners of the buckle were "squarish" rather than being round. Similar to the buckles on some cavalry harness. I presumed that they had had difficulty obtaining the correct buckles and chose something that gave a good match but was still being manufactured. The set I examined had no markings anywhere. 

 

The difference between a reproduction and a fake. They had not been manufactured with the intent to deceive and defraud. In hindsight it was a pity that there were not marked with a "NATO" equipment number, manufacturer and year of manufacture. Then anyone passing them off as WW1 would clearly demonstrate a criminal intent.

 

Cheers 

Ross

 

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Dave1418

Hi

There are many versions of 14 pattern equipment from numerous manufacturers both in the UK and America, some have brass buckles and brass tongues, the steel ones are a manufacturing variation.

regards

Dave 

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