Couldn't read or write

[Johnhenry1917]

There is a belief in my family that my grandfather, killed in April 1917 could not read or write.

Were illiterate men accepted and if so were any special measures taken.

[ss002d6252]

32 minutes ago, Johnhenry1917 said:

There is a belief in my family that my grandfather, killed in April 1917 could not read or write.

Were illiterate men accepted and if so were any special measures taken.

You do see enlistment forms signed with an X from men who couldn't write their own names, and probably couldn't read either. As long as men were aware of the content of the form then it wasn't a specific bar to service pre-war or in the early years of the war. Once conscription came in to place then there was nothing within it which specifically addressed illiteracy, if a man could march and shoot then he could soldier.

Who was he, there may be a roundabout way to check regarding his 'illiteracy'.

Craig

[clive_hughes]

Just in passing, I was just a little surprised at the number of signed-by-mark "X"s on the Anglesey-related 1919 Army Forms W5080 listing the next of kin re. entitlement to receive the Memorial Plaque and Scroll.  Not a large number, but noticeable - and all or nearly all were women.  

 

Clive

[Johnhenry1917]

He was 26756 Pte John Henry Clarke A Coy, 14th DLI. He had signed his attestation form but it had the look of someone who had learnt to just write his name.

[John_Hartley]

19 hours ago, clive_hughes said:

and all or nearly all were women.  

 

I have no statistics to support what I'm about to write, so please take it with a pinch of salt if necessary.  I've looked at a number of soldiers' marriage certificates and of those of the preceeding generation. In both cases, then men have almost invariably signed their name (and signed with the confidence of a literate person). In the more recent generation, the women have also appeared literate but not so in the earlier generation where there were several marking with an X. I suppose it reflects the growing school attendance and a fast growing interest in newspaper reading and education more generally - the number of soldiers I've come across who have attended educational organisations after leaving school surprised me.

[Guest]

I have found a soldier's sign up form where an X was not used but instead the most precise calligraphy I've ever witnessed on any form for WW1.  The soldier's occupation at the time was a miner and although that doesn't necessary automatically mean illiteracy, to have such a distinct signature to have been calligraphic would suggest either mining was not his calling or it was the work of the enlister/document witness (a doctor).  Has anyone else discovered such style when researching their families or people from WW1?

[FROGSMILE]

 
Church schools often went to painstaking efforts to teach what used to be called ‘copperplate’ writing to the children of working men.  Apparently they had to laboriously copy out the same words over and over again to aid consistency.  It used to be common in my childhood to marvel at the beautiful handwriting of our grandparents generation.  It was much less the case with my parents (WW2) generation.  I gained the impression that although the period spent at school was short, with a school leaving age of 12 in 1914, great effort was put into making the years count with an unbending focus on reading, writing and arithmetic.

[squirrel]

I have one set of attestation papers signed with a "X" and a thumb print. The man's trade was entered as "labourer". While this covers many trades, he must have had some skills as he was assigned to the labour Corps and received additional pay for "additional skills".  

[Guest]

Thank you very much for your swift reply.  I'm learning something new every day.  And thank you very much for your Service, very much appreciated.

[RNCVR]

Illiteracy was very common in the Victorian Navy, especially the early & mid part of her reign. I have had many medals to ratings who were unable to read or write & made their mark with an X, always countersigned by a witness(es).

 

But as the Victorian era wore on in the latter part, ie: 1890's onward into Edward's reign, illiteracy was disappearing very quickly.

By the time of 1WW all RN ratings had to pass an educational test for advancement to high rank.

 

The RN had a cadre of Naval Schoolmasters who's primary job was to teach ratings to read & write, both whilst at sea & at shore based training periods.

I have examples of ratings who entered their 1st engagement period (10 yrs then) illiterate, but when they signed on for their 2nd engagement they were able to sign their name.

 

As (perhaps useless)  information ..... 

 

Thanks & best ....Bryan

[tom bowler]

I believe that reading and writing were taught as different subjects in the past. Most were taught to read but NOT write. The idea behind that was, that 'they' didn't want the 'lower orders' to get above their station, and to take orders rather than give orders.

 

Both of my Grandmothers ( who had both died before I was born), were unable to write their names on their wedding certificates, so just marked with an X. Both were born in the late 1890's.

[FROGSMILE]

14 hours ago, RNCVR said:

 

By the time of 1WW all RN ratings had to pass an educational test for advancement to high rank.

 

The RN had a cadre of Naval Schoolmasters who's primary job was to teach ratings to read & write, both whilst at sea & at shore based training periods.

I have examples of ratings who entered their 1st engagement period (10 yrs then) illiterate, but when they signed on for their 2nd engagement they were able to sign their name.

 

Thanks & best ....Bryan

The same system prevailed in the Army too Bryan.  There were First, Second and Third Class Certificates of Education (aligned with promotion) and each regular cavalry regiment and infantry battalion had a SNCO/WO Schoolmaster, in addition to some Schoolmistresses who ran the unit children’s school for the married men.  Neither of course deployed with their units during war, but remained behind at depots and barracks married quarters.

 

Edited 25 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[RNCVR]

Yes Froggie, RN Educational certificates same classes.  I have never seen one tho, am certain they must exist but I dont have one to show.  Yours is a very nice example.

 

RN Schoolmasters ceased being drafted to sea going ships circa 1885, but they were still on depot\shore bases & older hulks as long as those hulks existed.

 

Have att'd a photo of Naval Schoolmasters circa turn of the 19\20th Century period. They were all equivalent in rank to Military branch Chief Petty Officers & were among the highest paid RN ratings together with ERA's & EA's.

 

Hope you are faring well & not too bored!

 

Bryan

 

The Schoolmaster in the front row seated with the three sleeve buttons is a Warrant Schoolmaster, an RN Officer rank, but not commissioned.  He would have been Warranted from CPO rank.

 

 

This is the rate insignia of a Naval Schoolmaster - single gold star, you can see it worn on the lapels of their tunics.

 

Edited 25 May , 2020 by RNCVR
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