202 Company / 66 Bn Machine Gun Corps

[Shep1265]

Hello

I am researching my grandfather's WW1 service. I already know that he was in 202 Company, 66Bn MGC, and was taken prisoner on 21 March 1918 in Hargicourt.

I am trying to find info on the 202 Company in the St Quentin campaign.

As a novice, can someone explain to me how the MGC operated in terms of units ? Were the machine gunners assigned to other regiments? Reason for asking is that having studied the battle maps of 21 March for the Hargicourt area, I cannot find any MGC companies listed.

If anyone has any information on who men from the 202 MGC would have been assigned to, and any war diaries etc detailing their involvement on 21 March I would be very grateful.

My grandfather was sent to Crossen PoW camp in eastern Germany. I have read that the camp you were sent to depended on which Regiment  captured you, so again, if anyone could help with identifying the capturing German regiment responsible, this would be a great help.

[pjwmacro]

Shep

 

Worth a look at the Machine Gun Corps section of the Long Long Trail website

 

202 Machine Gun Coy War diary is held by the National Archive: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7355545 reference WO 95/3137/3

 

Regards, Paul

[sotonmate]

66 Battalion MGC was an amalgamation of the three Machine Gun Companies ( 201/202 and 203) of 66 Division, which occurred in Feb/March 1918. 66 Division were at the Battle of St Quentin under XIX Corps of 5th Army, so their machine guns were there somewhere ! There are maps at Kew in the WO 153 series which will likely show the opposing units in each part of the front line, though of course not absolutely certain that your subject's unit would be detailed to be in one precise place unless there is a particularly accurate deployment shown in War Diaires. In that respect I have been seeking the correct Diary reference for 66 Bn MGC and have  been unable to find one as yet. If you make a search on the Discovery advance database and enter 66 Division and WO95 you can trawl through some 111 entries for the Division in the hope that you find what I have missed ! The three MG Companies Diaries are shown on Kew's archive as ending at the end of Feb 1918, but I will try to sample one of them to see if they actually did stop a daily journal at that time.

66 Battalion MGC seems to have been short-lived as it was broken up on 15 April 1918, probably due to severe losses.

 

Later: 202 Company MGC War Diary (WO95/3137/3) shows a final entry on 28 Feb 1918: "Marched to VILLERS CARBONNEL and took over STAGING CAMP. Complement 11 Officers 172 ORs".

Edited 15 January , 2018 by sotonmate

[sotonmate]

Are we talking about 102870 John B KAY ? If so he has 2 POW entries on the Intl.Red Cross site quoting 102870. One is a request from his father as he was recorded as Missing on 22/3/1918 and from which a reply says in effect no info on him, and a second in another part of the database in a ledger recording him as captured on 21.3.1918 at Lagnycourt (sic) and registered at Quedlinburg POW Camp  (Harz Mountains) later in the year. The ledger ref is PA27272. He is shown as born 14 Sep 1898 at Lymm Cheshire.

Sometimes there is ref to a list showing where and when the POW is repatriated but no link found for that.

If you Google the camp you wil get some info.

Edited 14 January , 2018 by sotonmate

[sotonmate]

Map pack may be relevant:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1633180

 

Edited 15 January , 2018 by sotonmate

[Shep1265]

Yes, it is John B Kay 102870. I have a copy of his IRC card showing him missing 22/3/1918. I am puzzled by the second entry you mention - I haven't come across that, could you point me to it please ? We know that he was at Crossen-an-der-Oder camp during 1918 as he told the family that & he is listed being there in late April 1918 ( on the  typed lists, from the camp, even though they wrongly have him listed as "Brayshaw P Kay, but D.O.B. & next of kin details are correct).

 

I've never heard mention of him being at Quedlinburg camp. Also, he is listed as captured at Hargicourt, and the date of birth - 14 Sept 1898 is worng. His DOB is 6 Oct 1897.

 

Curious indeed !

[Shep1265]

Here are his IRC / camp documents I've got.

[sotonmate]

Shep

 

I took a look at the 66 Division HQ War Diary yesterday whilst at Kew. WO95/3121/2:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14056320

There are maps which are not very specific for MG units but some good narrative, including a report in Appendix 22 by the MG Battalion OC, Lt Col W J Woodcock following the events of the third week in March 1918. There are also a few other Appendixes filling in well.

Worth a read if you can get it on Ancestry, or £3.50 to download from the above ref.

[Shep1265]

I've downloaded the 202 Company war diary from WO95 at the National Archives. Frustratingly it finishes on 28 February 1918 - the date I am interested in, in relation to my grandfather being taken prisoner is 21 March at Hargicourt during Operation Michael.

 

Does anyone know why the diary finished on 28 February?

[Colin W Taylor]

Shep,

 

Whilst the 202 Company diary will cover his service until Feb 1918.  I don't believe some of the other forum pals could find a record of the 66 MG Battalion diary which should cover March 1918.  I cannot either and presume that it was either not filed correctly or was lost during the fighting in question.  John Kay was serving with 202 MG Coy but it was renamed in Late Feb/early March as A Company 66th MG Bn; as a member of the company he may still have identified with his previous company number though his POW records refer to both.

 

Where do you go next?  I will send you a copy of a PoW statement from an officer who served in 202nd Coy which accounts for how he was captured; John Kay may have been captured at the same time, with a different officer or in different circumstances.  Other officers captured that day will have left similar records which might give a wider idea of what happened to different parts of the battalion. Bear in mind different MG sections would be spread across a wide area, possibly covering several Km2.  You may also be able to patch together what happened to 197 Brigade and its battalions through their war diaries; these might provide a glimpse of what their supporting MG company did (it is tentatively sound to presume A Company still supported its previous brigade) and might mention where they were sited.

 

Even if it was available the war diary might not go into ideal amounts of detail; you can find out some more snippets of what happened but it would not be simple.

 

Kind regards

 

Colin