Adrian Artillery Helmet - named

[msdt]

Hi,

A new purchase at the weekend. Liked the paint. Can anyone help with the name, seems to end with Francois which I believe can be a family name?

How about the liner - haven't seen one with perforated tongues before, the backing is a black material?

And Cyrillic initials?

I'll let the pictures talk.

Cheers,

Tony

 

[trajan]

Interesting piece but can't help with the name(s?) or liner! Note that a contingent of Russian soldiers did serve on the western front, though, so...???

[Martin Bennitt]

Usual French style is nom, prénom -- surname first and given name second. If you can decipher the other word (s) you may get somewhere.

 

Cheers Martin B

 

 

[JMB1943]

Tony,

 

I have run your photo through an image enhancement program, but cannot get a definitive read on the surname.

What I can discern is "Rellio" and possibly "cet" or "cer".

Cannot load the enhanced image because it is a .tif file.

 

Regards,

JMB

[msdt]

Present thoughts are Pellissier, Francois.

Cheers,

Tony

[CROONAERT]

3 hours ago, msdt said:

Present thoughts are Pellissier, Francois.

 

Totally ignoring those with a recorded middle name (and those for whom 'Francois' is the middle name), here're a couple of Francois Pellissier s who served at some time or other in an artillery regiment during WW1 to start you off (There are 30-odd others to look through if using those with recorded middle names). Parisien area Francois Pellissiers and those from Essonne, Val d'Oise, Moselle, Bas Rhin , Haute Rhin, Lot-et-Garonne and the overseas territories have not been searched....

 

2579 Sdt. Francois Pellissier – a farmer from Rumilly,Ht. Savoie,  born 11 May 1875 - served 6e RAC 5 Nov 1915 – 22 May 1917

 

664 Sdt Francois Pellessier – a painter from Coubon , born 30 Oct 1893 – served 54e RAC Jan 1914- 1919

 

Dave

 

 

On ‎14‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 16:51, trajan said:

 Note that a contingent of Russian soldiers did serve on the western front, though, so...???

 

... and also with the French in Salonika. (Not with that helmet colour and insignia though)

 

Dave

Edited 18 January , 2018 by CROONAERT

[4thGordons]

3 hours ago, CROONAERT said:

 

... and also with the French in Salonika. (Not with that helmet colour and insignia though)

 

Dave

 

Were French helmets supplied to Serbian troops too (may also contain Cyrillic script)? Although same observation about colour and insignia may apply?

Chris

[CROONAERT]

13 minutes ago, 4thGordons said:

 

Were French helmets supplied to Serbian troops too (may also contain Cyrillic script)? Although same observation about colour and insignia may apply?

Chris

 

Yes... the French supplied Serbia with 123,000 helmets as from January 1916

 

Dave

[Michael Haselgrove]

Hi Tony,

Thanks very much for posting the excellent photos of your helmet.  You may not have seen the website below.  I think it is excellent and may help you to identify the manufacturer of your helmet if there is no ink stamp to the interior of the shell: 

http://www.world-war-helmets.com/fiche.php?q=Casque-Francais-Adrian-Mle-15

I like the paint on your helmet with the darker, hand-painted blue paint over the original light blue factory finish.  I also think the chinstrap is original.  However, the liner is not, in my opinion, original to the helmet.  The reasons for my perhaps incorrect opinion are as follows:

1. The liner is a very poor fit to the helmet shell.  I agree that it is possible it may have shrunk but that is unlikely given that the liner is in very good condition.

2. The ventilation holes in the tongues - I agree these could have been added by someone but again that is unlikely and I can't presently recall seeing ventilation holes in the liner of any Great War steel helmet and certainly not on an Adrian liner.

3. The shape of the tongues is not correct for an Adrian liner.

4. I can't see any eyelets reinforcing the holes for the drawstring, although these may be present and not shown by your photos.

5. There appears to be only one row of stitching securing the tongues to the liner headband instead of two as on Adrian liners. 

6. I can't see any marks corresponding to the corrugated shape of the aluminium ventilation spacers on the black cloth of the liner headband. 

I hope the above comments are of interest and I am sorry if they are a disappointment and apologise in advance if any/all of them prove to be incorrect.

Michael.

 

 

    

[msdt]

Hi Michael,

You have raised some good points. The liner being not original to the helmet (one wonders how many actually are) is certainly the easiest way to explain the Cyrillic initials. I will examine the liner more closely this weekend for any other clues.

As the helmet is in a good condition with an original strap maybe the replacement liner was put in by somebody who actually wanted to wear it. If it was swapped recently by a collector one wonders what condition the original shell the liner came from was in as the liner is pretty good. Usually it's the helmet shell that's good and the liner that's poor.

Cheers,

Tony

[Michael Haselgrove]

Hi Tony,

The liner in your helmet could have been replaced at any time.  For instance, in French Military Helmets of the 20th Century by Roland  Hennequin there is a photo of a French Model 26 helmet fitted with a Model 31 liner from a German helmet and said to have been used by the Resistance.  As far as I can tell the liner in your helmet resembles the liner in a Bulgarian M.36/C or Bulgarian M.1938 helmet but that is probably incorrect as I know very little about helmets made after 1918.

For future reference, below is a photo of part of the liner in a helmet in my collection showing the sort of marks I referred to above made by the ventilation/size spacers.  These marks also sometimes appear in the cloth part of the liner. 

Anyway, good luck with your further research.

Best wishes,

Michael.

[msdt]

Some more pics of the liner attached. Also a link to my Bulgarian example which has a similar liner, though not one made for a fitting a 1915 helmet using the standard fittings.

Link:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/247383-adrian-helmet-bulgarian-finally/?tab=comments#comment-2492827

 

More pics of the liner in this helmet below.

 

Tony