MaxD Posted 10 January , 2018 Share Posted 10 January , 2018 (edited) Was the "Y" above the curved "Glamorgan" itself surmounted by a "1" in the case of 1st/1st Glamorgan Yeomanry? Max Edited 10 January , 2018 by MaxD Pic atached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 10 January , 2018 Share Posted 10 January , 2018 59 minutes ago, MaxD said: Was the "Y" above the curved "Glamorgan" itself surmounted by a "1" in the case of 1st/1st Glamorgan Yeomanry? Max It looks like a T-Y-Glamorgan shoulder title that's suffered damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 10 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2018 I did think that but the bottom part of the top piece is almost a mirror image of the top piece of the Y and I could see the top of the T losing its left and right arms but couldn't see how the bottom of the T would end up like an upside down Y. I also saw the attached which purports to be Glamorgan Yeomanry which looks similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 10 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2018 (edited) (Duplicate) Edited 10 January , 2018 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 10 January , 2018 Share Posted 10 January , 2018 (edited) Wouldn't a "1" have the small forward stroke? (I think the invert Y effect is an optical illusion.) RM Edited 10 January , 2018 by rolt968 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 10 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2018 I think that must be it. A "1 " wouldn't have two splayed legs either I suppose. Thank you for you interest. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot#1 Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 When second line Battalions or in this case the 2/1 Glamorgan Yeomanry were formed, many soldiers in the first line units (1/1 Glamorgan Yeomanry) would unofficially remove the top part of the T to make it look like a 1. Thus denoting they were a member of the 1/1 Glamorgan Yeomanry. Most commonly seen on Infantry titles, but I'm presuming the principle was the same in the Yeomanry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2018 Yes and that would explain why it is possible to find other photos that seem to show the same "doctored" T, had a sneaking suspicion that might be the case - thank you very much. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 Accept what you say, folks, but if so was the pre-1908 Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry (IY) title very different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2018 (edited) Clive Excellent question. I now must confess that for no good reason I did not include the rest of the pic which shows the cap badge which, although not entirely distinct, may have the word Imperial in the middle section of the scroll so if the man is indeed pre1908 then I should have referred to Imperial in my title. Pic attached for further thoughts. Edited 11 January , 2018 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 2 hours ago, clive_hughes said: Accept what you say, folks, but if so was the pre-1908 Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry (IY) title very different? Westlake's Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles includes a straight GIY shoulder title which I assume was pre-1908 or hung on from pre-1908. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2018 Thank you, all begins to knit together. Have to say the date or the subject of the pic is not known (as yet). Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 Westlake shows three shoulder titles, without specific dates: GIY ; T/Y/GLAMORGAN; Y/GLAMORGAN RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2018 Roger, so just to be clear, no curved Glamorgan surmounted by Y with I (or 1) above I/T/GLAMORGAN? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 42 minutes ago, MaxD said: Roger, so just to be clear, no curved Glamorgan surmounted by Y with I (or 1) above I/T/GLAMORGAN? Max I think you mean I/Y/GLAMORGAN? Both the full GLAMORGANs are curved. There is no I/Y/GLAMORGAN. But I wouldn't expect it as Westlake (I think) shows only the official versions. This does not preclude the clipped version mentioned in post #7, since it was unofficially created by the men. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2018 A bear of very little brain! All clear now, I am going with the doctored 1st/1st idea. Thanks everyone. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 As all Yeomanry were Territorials there seems little point in putting both Y and T on the shoulder title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2018 Well they did! Nobody around now to ask why they did it! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES12 Posted 21 March , 2018 Share Posted 21 March , 2018 Just for ref here are s/t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 March , 2018 Share Posted 21 March , 2018 (edited) The clipping proposal is correct and relates in part to the 1/1st over 2/1st argument, but more commonly to the introduction of the military service act 1916 that rendered the differential between regular, national (aka service battalions) and Territorial redundant. The county associations complained about this but little was done and drafts of men were sent to whichever unit where they were needed regardless of who recruited them. The impression that Territorials (who in some cases were paid less) were somehow inferior or second rate led to men clipping their T to show just 1. Edited 21 March , 2018 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2018 Useful bit of value added Frogsmile. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffMJ Posted 25 January , 2019 Share Posted 25 January , 2019 (edited) 1st/1st Yeomen altered the "T" to look like a "1"... in many of the the first line Yeomanry Regiments during the Great War. Edited 25 January , 2019 by GriffMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 January , 2019 Share Posted 26 January , 2019 (edited) On 11/01/2018 at 18:18, PhilB said: As all Yeomanry were Territorials there seems little point in putting both Y and T on the shoulder title? Interestingly the South Irish Horse, was originally Yeomanry when it was formed, but was transferred to the Special Reserve (Cavalry) in 1908. Edited 26 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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