Enlistment Records for Charles Walter Hancock 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers

[John1916]

My step granddad, Charles Walter Hancock DOB 5th November 1895 enlisted in 1 Royal Scots Fusiliers in April 1916 in either Derby, Derbyshire or Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.

 

His Army no 201367

 

From the attached record he transferred into 12 Royal Scots Fusiliers.

 

I am trying to locate his War record of service including his Enlistment form.

 

I am on Ancestry.co.uk which enabled me to find the attached document but nothing under Enlistment records.

 

I was wondering if his regiment;s records were destroyed when the War records Office was bombed during World War 2?

 

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

John1916 (John Buxton)

 

 

[Langdon]

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Yes, it's likely that his service record was among those destroyed in the Blitz - see here. A search of near numbers in the service records on Ancestry (30 either side) only came up with 201360 Harry Hicklin who attested on 09.12.15 in Derby and joined the RSF on 15.04.16.

Close numbers in the Silver War Badge records also confirms your April 1916 enlistment date:

201355   08.04.16

201357   11.04.16

201388   18.04.16

 

As suggested in the link above, FindMyPast may show service or pension records relevant to your research.

 

Mike

[ss002d6252]

#201367 was his post 1917 re-numbering service number, can't as yet get an idea of his previous number.

Craig

 

[sotonmate]

I would have expected to see an earlier service number too, he went to war with 1 Battalion prior to 1917 so likely another number somewhere.  MIC only shows one too.

I have been dabbling among the diaries for an answer to a change of Battalion, having not yet seen any info on his need for leaving 1 Battalion (8 Inf Bde of 3 Division),  maybe to sickness or wounds, and then returning on regaining fitness to 12 Battalion. It seems a distinct possibility that when 1 Battalion fought heavily in France in March 1918 and had a great deal of casualties  near the end of that month, over 300, of which the ORs figures are shown as 270 wounded, 39 missing, 9 wounded and missing. 1 Battalion then began receiving replacements during April. My reading of this is that Charles was likely a casualty and was then returned to service at the time that 12 Battalion returned to France from Egypt in May 1918, and that was where he served ( 94 Inf Bde of 31 Division).

No entry as far as I can see in Forces War Records for his wounding/sickness.

[kenf48]

He did not enlist in the 1st RSF, although he was mobilised in April 1916.  His number indicates he was in the 2/4 RSF when the Territorial Force Infantry was renumbered in March 1917. If he was married he would have been in Group 25 for the Derby Scheme and call up was 7th April 1916. His original four digit number would have been in the 93** series.  As only the six digit number is shown on the Medal Roll this means he first went on active service overseas after March 1917

 

It seems likely he was in a draft to France from the 2/4, and posted to the 1st Bn on an indeterminate date, the earliest I can find was a draft on 3rd June, originally destined for the 2nd but posted to the 1st at the IBD.

 

As noted above the 12th Bn did not arrive in France until May 1918 and it seems likely he was posted on another indeterminate date after May 1918.

 

Ken

 

 

[WilliamRev]

Just a thought, which might or might not be of use. Buchan's History of the Royal Scots Fusiliers (full of inaccuracies, but its all we have), says of the 12th RSF:

 

'About this time [March1917] a new battalion of our regiment had come into being. On 4th January the Ayrshire Yeomanry and the Lanarkshire Yeomanry, who had previously served in the Gallipoli Campaign, were amalgamated to form he 12th (Ayr and Lanark Yeomanry) Battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers, under Lieutenant-Colonel J.D. Boswell, and strengthened with drafts drafts from the 3rd Reserve Battalion at home.'

 

3rd Battalion, based at Fort Matilda, Greenock/Gourock (not the fort itself, which was small and manned by Royal Garrison Artillery, but a vast camp in tents and huts on Lyle Hill next to Fort Matilda Station) was the training battalion for the two Regular battalions, 1st and 2nd RSF. Wounded men from these two battalions, once recovered, were sent to 3rd RSF for fitness training in preparation for being returned to the front. It seems likely that Hancock was wounded, recovered, was with 3rd RSF in Greenock for a while, and then, as an experienced soldier, was sent to the newly-formed 12th RSF as an Acting Sergeant.

 

William

Edited 12 January , 2018 by WilliamRev

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, WilliamRev said:

Just a thought, which might or might not be of use. Buchan's History of the Royal Scots Fusiliers (full of inaccuracies, but its all we have), says of the 12th RSF:

 

'About this time [March1917] a new battalion of our regiment had come into being. On 4th January the Ayrshire Yeomanry and the Lanarkshire Yeomanry, who had previously served in the Gallipoli Campaign, were amalgamated to form he 12th (Ayr and Lanark Yeomanry) Battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers, under Lieutenant-Colonel J.D. Boswell, and strengthened with drafts drafts from the 3rd Reserve Battalion at home.'

 

3rd Battalion, based at Fort Matilda, Greenock/Gourock (not the fort itself, which was small and manned by Royal Garrison Artillery, but a vast camp in tents and huts on Lyle Hill next to Fort Matilda Station) was the training battalion for the two Regular battalions, 1st and 2nd RSF. Wounded men from these two battalions, once recovered, were sent to 3rd RSF for fitness training in preparation for being returned to the front. It seems likely that Hancock was wounded, recovered, was with 3rd RSF in Greenock for a while, and then, as an experienced soldier, was sent to the newly-formed 12th RSF as an Acting Sergeant.

 

William

 

The problem with that hypothesis is that when renumbered as a TF soldier he was serving with the 4th Battalion, either the 2/4th or the 3/4th.  The evidence for this is that A/Sgt Hancock (incidentally acting ranks should not have been shown on the medals) was renumbered in the series 2000001-240000 allocated to the 4th Bn (LLT).  We also know he did not go on active service until after the renumbering, which although not always so is conveniently expressed as March 1917.  There is no mention on his entry in the medal roll that he previously served with a TF unit of the RSF, or any other regiment as part of the MEF.   We also know his enlistment date which precludes any earlier entry on the 14-15 Star Roll.

 

Men renumbered in the 2013** series were either posted to France, for example SDGW has 201340;201348; 201378 (and many others) who were all killed while serving with the 1st Battalion, or there was a draft that joined the MEF sailing in December 1916 most of whom died while serving with the 1/5th Battalion although there are a couple with the 1/4th Battalion.  One of those who died in Palestine while serving with the 1/5 was 201365 just above Hancock in the Roll page posted above.

 

Interestingly 201363 Hopewell, who has an identical entry to Hancock was killed while serving with the 12th Battalion on the 8th September 1918.  Nearly all the men in this number series who have some record or trace beyond the Roll were from the Midlands, i.e. Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and Leicestershire.  Where a record survives they were invariably mobilised to the 2/4th Battalion.

 

I would agree Hancock may have been posted to the 12th following a wound, or sickness and reposted from the IBD but based on the evidence of the Roll it suggests this did not occur until after the 12th Battalion was deployed to France.  I can find no surviving record of a man in this cohort who transferred to 12th Battalion while serving in the MEF in either the 1/4 or 1/5 Battalion.

 

I don't know if the OP is aware but there was also a 201348 Francis R Hancock who was killed while serving with the 1st Bn., a relative or coincidence(?).

 

Ken

 

 

[John1916]

On ‎09‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 20:54, sotonmate said:

I would have expected to see an earlier service number too, he went to war with 1 Battalion prior to 1917 so likely another number somewhere.  MIC only shows one too.

I have been dabbling among the diaries for an answer to a change of Battalion, having not yet seen any info on his need for leaving 1 Battalion (8 Inf Bde of 3 Division),  maybe to sickness or wounds, and then returning on regaining fitness to 12 Battalion. It seems a distinct possibility that when 1 Battalion fought heavily in France in March 1918 and had a great deal of casualties  near the end of that month, over 300, of which the ORs figures are shown as 270 wounded, 39 missing, 9 wounded and missing. 1 Battalion then began receiving replacements during April. My reading of this is that Charles was likely a casualty and was then returned to service at the time that 12 Battalion returned to France from Egypt in May 1918, and that was where he served ( 94 Inf Bde of 31 Division).

No entry as far as I can see in Forces War Records for his wounding/sickness.

 

On ‎09‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 19:40, Langdon said:

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Yes, it's likely that his service record was among those destroyed in the Blitz - see here. A search of near numbers in the service records on Ancestry (30 either side) only came up with 201360 Harry Hicklin who attested on 09.12.15 in Derby and joined the RSF on 15.04.16.

Close numbers in the Silver War Badge records also confirms your April 1916 enlistment date:

201355   08.04.16

201357   11.04.16

201388   18.04.16

 

As suggested in the link above, FindMyPast may show service or pension records relevant to your research.

 

Mike

 

On ‎12‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 18:04, WilliamRev said:

Just a thought, which might or might not be of use. Buchan's History of the Royal Scots Fusiliers (full of inaccuracies, but its all we have), says of the 12th RSF:

 

'About this time [March1917] a new battalion of our regiment had come into being. On 4th January the Ayrshire Yeomanry and the Lanarkshire Yeomanry, who had previously served in the Gallipoli Campaign, were amalgamated to form he 12th (Ayr and Lanark Yeomanry) Battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers, under Lieutenant-Colonel J.D. Boswell, and strengthened with drafts drafts from the 3rd Reserve Battalion at home.'

 

3rd Battalion, based at Fort Matilda, Greenock/Gourock (not the fort itself, which was small and manned by Royal Garrison Artillery, but a vast camp in tents and huts on Lyle Hill next to Fort Matilda Station) was the training battalion for the two Regular battalions, 1st and 2nd RSF. Wounded men from these two battalions, once recovered, were sent to 3rd RSF for fitness training in preparation for being returned to the front. It seems likely that Hancock was wounded, recovered, was with 3rd RSF in Greenock for a while, and then, as an experienced soldier, was sent to the newly-formed 12th RSF as an Acting Sergeant.

 

William

 

[John1916]

Thanks Mike for your welcome and everyone for your replies. It will take me a while to work through them.

 

I thought from the Medal Record that he had joined the RSF as no previous Regiments are listed as in other records. So much for my thoughts. My cousin thought Grandad had joined the Sherwood Forresters but I haven't discovered any info on line about this possibility.

 

My cousin gave me the following info:

Charles Walter Hancock  dob 5.11.1895 Derby

Enlisted 15.4.16 at Derby.

To Ballykindle N.I. 31.12.16

Dublin Royal Barracks 3.16

Etaples, France 6/17

I would have thought he he'd have enlisted in the Sherwood Foresters but I have a note from my mother saying that when he was in France, he was in the 1st Battn Royal Scots Fusiliers [Signals].

He later went to Ypres where he was gassed and spent 3 months in hospital. He was then wounded in the foot and spent more time in hospital.

After 11/18 he finished as a Sgt doing some sort of training.

I've got a photocopy of an army number given as 201367 for a C. W. Hancock but it could be another person of course

I've got some information to say that the Royal Scots Fusiliers went from Chelmsford to Ballykindle and Dublin in 3/16 which seems to fit in. I do remember he had some friends from Chelmsford so maybe that's how they met. 

I also remember as a child seeing a Glengarry cap in his house which again fits in with a Scottish regiment. As far as I know though, he never had any Scottish connections.

He did have a friend who was killed in France and I think his name was Francis Randolph Hancock and his number was 201348 1st Battn RSF. His number is not far off Grandad's so maybe they joined around the same time. He came from Skegby. He died on 14 June 18 so that date fits in.

 

Ken, It was through checking F R Hancock that I found Grandad's medal record.

 

I'll keep reading all this new info.

 

Kind regards

 

John.

[TTracer44]

Info from SDGW on Francis Randolph Hancock. b. Pinxton. Derbyshire. this is quite close to Skegby so didn’t move far, info from FreeBMD b. 1st qtr 1895, Mansfield 

7b 76, so Charles and Francis born the same year,  also Francis enlisted at Mansfield.

Den

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, John1916 said:

 

 

I thought from the Medal Record that he had joined the RSF as no previous Regiments are listed as in other records. So much for my thoughts. My cousin thought Grandad had joined the Sherwood Forresters but I haven't discovered any info on line about this possibility.

 

My cousin gave me the following info:

Charles Walter Hancock  dob 5.11.1895 Derby

Enlisted 15.4.16 at Derby.

To Ballykindle N.I. 31.12.16

Dublin Royal Barracks 3.16

Etaples, France 6/17

I would have thought he he'd have enlisted in the Sherwood Foresters but I have a note from my mother saying that when he was in France, he was in the 1st Battn Royal Scots Fusiliers [Signals].

He later went to Ypres where he was gassed and spent 3 months in hospital. He was then wounded in the foot and spent more time in hospital.

After 11/18 he finished as a Sgt doing some sort of training.

I've got a photocopy of an army number given as 201367 for a C. W. Hancock but it could be another person of course

I've got some information to say that the Royal Scots Fusiliers went from Chelmsford to Ballykindle and Dublin in 3/16 which seems to fit in. I do remember he had some friends from Chelmsford so maybe that's how they met. 

I also remember as a child seeing a Glengarry cap in his house which again fits in with a Scottish regiment. As far as I know though, he never had any Scottish connections.

He did have a friend who was killed in France and I think his name was Francis Randolph Hancock and his number was 201348 1st Battn RSF. His number is not far off Grandad's so maybe they joined around the same time. He came from Skegby. He died on 14 June 18 so that date fits in.

 

 

The Medal Rolls occasionally list Home Service Units for a draft, but generally they only list units relevant to the award of the medal, i.e. served in a theatre of war.  The Base Depot was in a theatre of war hence why they sometimes show the unit the soldier embarked with.

 

There is no reason why he should have joined a local unit, though he was probably mobilised to the local Depot.   

The 2/4 were a Home Service unit based at Chelmsford  at the time of his mobilisation.  What was more relevant was his age and physical fitness.  Apart from that his movements as described by your cousin follow the 2/4 Battalion and probably came from the parent site, the Long Long Trail.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-royal-scots-fusiliers-in-1914-1918/

 

By June 1917 manpower problems in France and Flanders were at crisis levels therefore men were taken from Home Service Units and posted to France. The comments confirm he was wounded and probably account for the transfer to the 12th Bn

 

(My g-uncle was from Northamptonshire and was posted to the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, afaik he never set foot in Scotland.)

 

Ken

[John1916]

Thank you for your information and the time you have spent researching on my behalf. Definitely not straight forward. 

 

I've attached two photos of postcards. 

He was single during his service period but married in 1919. 

 

Several of you have mentioned checking records some with information about Grandad. Is it possible for me to have copies of the ones which name him or show movements of his regiment(s)?

 

If so, I am prepared to pay any costs  which may arise. I am not a freeloader.

 

Kind regards 

John. 

[kenf48]

3 hours ago, John1916 said:

Thank you for your information and the time you have spent researching on my behalf. Definitely not straight forward. 

 

He was single during his service period but married in 1919. 

 

Several of you have mentioned checking records some with information about Grandad. Is it possible for me to have copies of the ones which name him or show movements of his regiment(s)?

 

 

 

Hi John

 

The first step you should take is to look at the parent site, the Long Long Trail(LLT), I have posted a link to the RSF page in my previous post.  From there navigate to the home page and you will find information on researching a soldier.

 

A lot of the information above comes from intuition based on experience of interpreting the records which are on Ancestry and which you have access to.  For example, the LLT has information on the Territorial Force (TF) and we know that if he had a six digit number he enlisted in the TF and was still serving in the TF when every soldier in the TF was given a six digit number in March 1917 to replace the duplication of 4 digit numbers.  The LLT lists the numbers given to each Battalion.  Mike at post 2 referred to the Silver War Badge Rolls, these are on Ancestry and can be used to give an enlistment date (though not necessarily to the final unit) If you can't find them look in the Card Index on the right box of the search page.

 

Similarly the war diaries are also on Ancestry, elsewhere on the forum there are tips on searching for elusive diaries.  It's then a question of drawing all this information together as your cousin has done to create a narrative.  If you still live in the area the local library may have newspaper records, alternatively all the major genealogical sites have free periods or special offers or again can usually be accessed through the local library service.

 

Finally, you should note forum rules do not allow members to do look ups on sites to which they subscribe, this does not preclude members advising you where to look for information.

 

Ken

 

 

 

[John1916]

Thanks Ken. I'll do some more digging. 😀👍

[John1916]

Hi folks,

 

Back on two years later.  I have discovered the attached Wound record.

 

However, I haven't been able to locate his Enlistment or service records which I presume would dates for all his movements during his service. 

 

From kind previous contributions and other info his service was

 

Enlist in Derby 15th April 1916 in 2/4th RSF - no record of service number.

To Chelmsford for training then posted to Ballykinler, N.I. and Dublin.

 

On an unknown date service number 201367 allocated

Medal record shows 1st RSF and 12th RSF

June 1917 Etaples, France. 1st RSF 3rd Division 8th Brigade

Fought at Ypres where he was gassed and spent 3 months in hospital - can't find any records for this.

29th June 1918 recorded as wounded - location not stated. This may have been a foot injury.

Presuming when he became fit he was allocated to the 12th RSF part of the 31st Division 94th Brigade

 

I have been on ancestry.co.uk, the Long, Long Trail, National Archives and Forces War Records websites to no avail in tracing his service record.

 

Can anyone on the Forum help and/or offer suggestions?

 

Kind regards

 

John

 

Grandad Hancock wounding 29061918.pdf

[kenf48]

18 hours ago, John1916 said:

Enlist in Derby 15th April 1916 in 2/4th RSF - no record of service number.

To Chelmsford for training then posted to Ballykinler, N.I. and Dublin.

 

On an unknown date service number 201367 allocated

Medal record shows 1st RSF and 12th RSF

June 1917 Etaples, France. 1st RSF 3rd Division 8th Brigade

Fought at Ypres where he was gassed and spent 3 months in hospital - can't find any records for this.

29th June 1918 recorded as wounded - location not stated. This may have been a foot injury.

Presuming when he became fit he was allocated to the 12th RSF part of the 31st Division 94th Brigade

 

As previously discussed and linked at post 2 his service records were among the estimated 4/5ths destroyed in the Arnside Warehouse fire.  They no longer exist.

 

He either attested under the Group or (Lord) Derby Scheme in December 1915 or was conscripted according to his Class.  In any event he was mobilised, as stated at post 2 between the 11th and 18th April 1916 [9283 17th April] and told to report to the local Depot which was probably Normanton Barracks in Derby, or the local recruitment office.  He was probably allocated a Sherwood Forester general service five digit number in the 422**/432** series.

 

He was in a relatively large draft of men from the local Depot who on mobilisation proved to be unfit for front line service and were posted to the 2/4 RSF, a Territorial Force 'Home' service unit, on the 22nd April 1916. On arrival they were renumbered and in all probability he was allocated the four digit number 9308 [201336 = 9275;201360 = 9301 making allowance for those who left before the renumbering].

 

He was not renumbered on an indeterminate date but as a consequence of an Army Council Instruction, the arrangements for which were to be in place by the 1st March 1917

see https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

201367 was in the series allocated to the 4th Battalion RSF.  As this is the number shown on the medal roll and there is no reference to an earlier number he did not enter a theatre of war before March 1st 1917.

 

I previously posted the link on the LLT to the RSF page which shows the Battalion went from Chelmsford to Ballykinler in January 1917 (United Ireland in 1917 was a 'home' posting).

They moved to Galway in August 1917, however a large draft was 'combed out' and posted to the BEF and the 1st Battalion on the 3rd August 1917.  It appears some of the Scots in this draft were posted to the HLI at the IBD but it seems the Notts and Derby men retained their identity, at least until they joined the Battalion.  [I imagine your group photo includes these 'Londoners', or Englishmen.] 

 

The war diary for the 1st Battalion does not show any drafts in August, though it does show 8 other ranks on the 2nd September 1917.

 

The wound report does not indicate the date of wound but the entitlement to wear  a wound stripe. I still think William at post 6 has nailed his posting to the 12th Battalion. 

 

 

[John1916]

Ken,

 

Thank you so much for your reply. Sorry if I missed any content from your and others previous posts.

 

Thanks for explaining the numbering. Was 9283 April 17th his first service number? I do see you mention five digit numbers 422**/432** series connected with the Sherwood Foresters. 

 

I was assuming he went straight into the RSF. 

 

I'll await your final reply about 9283, then this now concludes my research into Grandad's WW1 service. What a pity so many records were destroyed, although very insignicant to human loss of life in the air raids.

 

Kind regards

 

John

[John1916]

On 12/01/2018 at 18:04, WilliamRev said:

Just a thought, which might or might not be of use. Buchan's History of the Royal Scots Fusiliers (full of inaccuracies, but its all we have), says of the 12th RSF:

 

'About this time [March1917] a new battalion of our regiment had come into being. On 4th January the Ayrshire Yeomanry and the Lanarkshire Yeomanry, who had previously served in the Gallipoli Campaign, were amalgamated to form he 12th (Ayr and Lanark Yeomanry) Battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers, under Lieutenant-Colonel J.D. Boswell, and strengthened with drafts drafts from the 3rd Reserve Battalion at home.'

 

3rd Battalion, based at Fort Matilda, Greenock/Gourock (not the fort itself, which was small and manned by Royal Garrison Artillery, but a vast camp in tents and huts on Lyle Hill next to Fort Matilda Station) was the training battalion for the two Regular battalions, 1st and 2nd RSF. Wounded men from these two battalions, once recovered, were sent to 3rd RSF for fitness training in preparation for being returned to the front. It seems likely that Hancock was wounded, recovered, was with 3rd RSF in Greenock for a while, and then, as an experienced soldier, was sent to the newly-formed 12th RSF as an Acting Sergeant.

 

William

Rather belatedly, thank you for this information.

 

I'm informed Grandad suffered from being gassed at Ypres and was in hospital for 3 months, although I haven't been able to trace a wounding/injury record for it. So from what Buchan says a possible scenario is he would have been brought home to recuperate at Fort Matilda camp, retrained when fit and returned to duty in the 12th. 

 

Kind regards

 

John 

[kenf48]

 

8 minutes ago, John1916 said:

Thanks for explaining the numbering. Was 9283 April 17th his first service number? I do see you mention five digit numbers 422**/432** series connected with the Sherwood Foresters. 

 

On reporting to the Sherwood's Depot he would have been allocated a Regimental number, at no point in his service could he be an 'orphan', the numbers of men transferred to the 2/4 Royal Scots Fusiliers where the records survive were in the series quoted.  They only had this ninumber for at most, a couple of weeks.  The expectation was that he would be basically kitted out and then moved on to a training battalion of the Sherwood Foresters. 

 

However a number of men in this group, and where records survive they show they were not in the highest fitness categories - one was C3 but he still went to France in 1917 - were posted to a Home Service unit of the TF.  This group was posted to the RSF and on arrival would be given a new cap badge and a new number in the relevant series.  As a TF Battalion this would be a four digit number.  Working backwards (or forwards) and assuming no men had dropped out the service record of 201360 has survived and he was 9301, so 9302 became 201361;9303 201362 etc all the way up to 201367 = 9308 not an exact science but you wouldn't be far out.

 

Not sure where 9283 fits in he would be closer to 201336 (9275) but the further away you get the more likely there are to be gaps in the sequence as not all of them made it to March 1917.

[John1916]

Thanks again Ken. I've replied to William on his post.

 

After he replies my search re Grandad Hancock will be at an end. You have been so helpful. Thank you. 

 

Mind I've surprisingly discovered another of my Grandad served in WW1. I was always told he was a conscientious objector!

 

I'll create a new query next week about him.

 

Kind regards

 

John

[John1916]

On 25/07/2020 at 18:08, kenf48 said:

 

As previously discussed and linked at post 2 his service records were among the estimated 4/5ths destroyed in the Arnside Warehouse fire.  They no longer exist.

 

He either attested under the Group or (Lord) Derby Scheme in December 1915 or was conscripted according to his Class.  In any event he was mobilised, as stated at post 2 between the 11th and 18th April 1916 [9283 17th April] and told to report to the local Depot which was probably Normanton Barracks in Derby, or the local recruitment office.  He was probably allocated a Sherwood Forester general service five digit number in the 422**/432** series.

 

He was in a relatively large draft of men from the local Depot who on mobilisation proved to be unfit for front line service and were posted to the 2/4 RSF, a Territorial Force 'Home' service unit, on the 22nd April 1916. On arrival they were renumbered and in all probability he was allocated the four digit number 9308 [201336 = 9275;201360 = 9301 making allowance for those who left before the renumbering].

 

He was not renumbered on an indeterminate date but as a consequence of an Army Council Instruction, the arrangements for which were to be in place by the 1st March 1917

see https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

201367 was in the series allocated to the 4th Battalion RSF.  As this is the number shown on the medal roll and there is no reference to an earlier number he did not enter a theatre of war before March 1st 1917.

 

I previously posted the link on the LLT to the RSF page which shows the Battalion went from Chelmsford to Ballykinler in January 1917 (United Ireland in 1917 was a 'home' posting).

They moved to Galway in August 1917, however a large draft was 'combed out' and posted to the BEF and the 1st Battalion on the 3rd August 1917.  It appears some of the Scots in this draft were posted to the HLI at the IBD but it seems the Notts and Derby men retained their identity, at least until they joined the Battalion.  [I imagine your group photo includes these 'Londoners', or Englishmen.] 

 

The war diary for the 1st Battalion does not show any drafts in August, though it does show 8 other ranks on the 2nd September 1917.

 

The wound report does not indicate the date of wound but the entitlement to wear  a wound stripe. I still think William at post 6 has nailed his posting to the 12th Battalion. 

 

 

Hi Ken,

 

Sorry it's me again. 

 

As Grandad's enlistment and service records were destroyed I'm trying to create a timeline for his service from your and Graham's info (which was recorded by my Aunty presumably from conversation with Grandad, her Dad). There are discrepancies but I'm tending to use your info. I'm going through the 1st RSF War diaries from May 1917 to May 1918 and the 12th RSF from May 1918 to May 1919 noting locations and when other ranks joined for duty.

 

In your 'combed out' comment was 3rd August 1917 a definite date for men from the 2/4th RSF transferring to 1st RSF?

 

Do you have a general idea about the length of time training at Etaples?

 

The War Diaries make interesting reading especially when using Google maps to locate the places.

 

Once again thanks for your help.

 

John

[clk]

Hi John,

 

On 24/07/2020 at 21:38, John1916 said:

I have discovered the attached Wound record.

 

If you'd like an actual copy of the casualty list, it's here. There would have been a delay of several weeks between the actual date of wounding, and the date of the published list.

 

Regards

Chris

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 15/01/2018 at 13:01, John1916 said:

My cousin gave me the following info:

Charles Walter Hancock  dob 5.11.1895 Derby

Enlisted 15.4.16 at Derby.

To Ballykindle N.I. 31.12.16

Dublin Royal Barracks 3.16

Etaples, France 6/17

That information is quite specific.

Where did your cousin get it from?

[John1916]

That would make his wounding occurred between 25th June to 1st July 1918. His daughter, my aunty (deceased) had said he was gassed at Ypres then at some later time he sustained a foot injury. So I am presuming the June 1918 was the foot injury. I'm in the process of checking the War Diaries for 1st RSF for 1917/18. Their Ypres action that my Grandad was in was in September 1917 but I can't see any mention of gas attacks.

 

Thanks Chris for your help, that photo is clearly readable.

 

Kind regards

 

John

[John1916]

10 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

That information is quite specific.

Where did your cousin get it from?

It was notes made by my cousin's mum, my aunty (deceased) Grandad's only daughter. I can only presume it is from conversations with her dad. This week I received the actual note, see attached image, from my cousin. 

 

There is an error in that she says he was moved to Dublin  3/16 when it was 3/17.

 

She also says he went to Etaples 6/17.  Ken elsewhere in this thread has discovered it was 3rd August 1917 when he joined the 1st RSF.

 

Kind regards

 

John