Aero Squadron facilities during WW1

[Guest Gary Davidson]

What were the typical (if there were such a thing) facilities for an Aero Squadron during WW!? Would they just take over an old farmhouse or tavern? Has anyone got pictures of what it was like?

Gary

[Jonathan Saunders]

Try the Battlegorund Europe Series for the Air War over Arras, Cambrai, Somme and Ypres - that will provide illustrations. In the early weeks of the war, I think there were 6 British squadrons in France and they were moving almost every day, living under canvas, whilst the war remained fluid. After the Line had became entrenched, many aerodromes (and this applies to all Combatant nations) were close to a chateau and out-buildings and/or farm buildings. Normally ORs were under canvas if no suitable out-building existed. Hangars were often corrugated constructions or partial canvas. Several squadrons may have shared one "campus" and their may have been more than one designated "runway". Pilots often used their aircraft to visit friends in other squadrons and there were always tenders available for rides into "Town". I hope this helps.

[Guest R Pope]

WWI planes required very little room, any flat piece of grass being a suitable field. The men preferred more, but often had to sleep under the wings of their planes for a while, until better accomodations could be found. When the front was fliud, some established airfields changed hands several times, captured and recaptured. Of course, any "real" airfield in a new sector was highly desireable.

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Wow. Thanks for the great information. I will look up the Battleground Europe series.

Follow-up question: How would Squadrons in the field communicate with their command headquarters? Radio? Telephone (if available)?

For example, if I am a Squadron Commander in the field, how am I getting my daily air-battle instructions, and how am I reporting back?

Gary

[Jonathan Saunders]

Wow. Thanks for the great information. I will look up the Battleground Europe series.

Follow-up question: How would Squadrons in the field communicate with their command headquarters? Radio? Telephone (if available)?

For example, if I am a Squadron Commander in the field, how am I getting my daily air-battle instructions, and how am I reporting back?

Gary

My assumption would be that instructions did not necessarily change daily, certainly not until much later in the war. Generally the British fighters were on the offensive, flying over German held territory. A squadron had an enemy sector that it would patrol at certain times during the day and I dont believe this greatly changed although there were escort duties for later bombing raids. There was also an element of "independent" flying outside squadron obligations.

It is probable that telephone communication was available in some circumstances, otherwise orders could have been distributed by 1) Staff Officer visiting aerodrome 2) Squadron Commander visiting/summoned to Staff HQ 3) Dispatch Rider. I suspect it was dependent on the circumstances, for example something like escort duties for bombing German rear areas just before it was known the Michael offensive was going to be launched, probably necessitated Squadron Commanders attending Staff HQ for briefing.

I will be interested in a more accurate answer by one of our "Air War" experts.

[MikeW]

Telephones, where secure, were of course used. Where the possibility of disruption due to shelling occurred, a pilot was often allocated to "Duty Flights" where he would ferry dispatches back and forth - sometimes the CO might do this himself. A good example of the use of a Duty Flight would be liaison with a French Squadron - A document transfer might often be preferable to trying to speak French!

Getting back to the main topic, I suspect the way you worded your question, using the "Aero Squadron" made most of us think you were referring to the USAS squadrons. If that is not the case, the 4 (so far - more to come) books from Mike O'Connor in the Battleground Europe series are excellent and should cover your needs admirably.

Mike

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Thank you all for answering the expaned scope of my question.

In films (Dawn Patrol, Hell's Angel's, etc.) about WW1 aviators, and books ("Winged Victory" comes to mind) a bar or officer's club is always presented as a vital part of the aviator's wartime facility. How really accurate was this? Was drinking seen as a legitimate way for battle-weary pilots to "wind down?"

Gary

[Adrian Roberts]

[Apologies if two identical posts like this appear; I tried sending one and it didn't seem to transmit]

In films (Dawn Patrol, Hell's Angel's, etc.) about WW1 aviators, and books ("Winged Victory" comes to mind) a bar or officer's club is always presented as a vital part of the aviator's wartime facility. How really accurate was this? Was drinking seen as a legitimate way for battle-weary pilots to "wind down?"

This picture is entitled "Osterreicher, Boelcke and Immelman at lunch in the starting hut at Douai". It seems to shed some light on the facilities of aero squadrons - or at least of Fliegertruppe. Judging by the windows it was more than a hut - looks like the scullery of a decent house. They appear to be eating off rather decent tableware (IKEA?! ) I haven't got to this part of the book yet, but earlier Immelman records in his letters that when he joined his first aircraft unit they were based on a farm, which ties in with what Signals says above. When Immelman went into town he went in a 'large Itala motor-car'. Clearly a better standard of living than the PBI.

Don't know about the drinking though; Immelman was a teetotal vegetarian. Not much of a life, though if I had a Fokker and an Itala I might just cope.

Adrian

[Dolphin]

Was drinking seen as a legitimate way for battle-weary pilots to "wind down?"

Gary

The images created by film and literature certainly show Great War airmen as enthusiatic consumers of alcohol. There is some truth behind the impression, but excessive consumption was far from universal. There was an excellent article by Lt Col Dr Steve Ruffin, a USAF Flight Surgeon, in Over the Front in 2002 that dealt with the health issues of Great War flying in detail. I've attached an extract below.

I hope that this helps you. Part 2 to follow.

Gareth

[Dolphin]

Gary

Here's Part 2.

Gareth

[Dolphin]

Gary

As you've probably guessed, this is Part 3. The section ends with the words "a higher risk for early physical and mental breakdown."

Regards

Gareth

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Adrian, thanks for the image.

And Gareth --

Thank you for that very illuminating article. I believe you've hit the nail on the head.

It lays out a pretty grim circumstance for the vast majority of WW1 aviators. All of this of course brought on by the stress of war. Which begs the next question: How common was suicide among WW1 pilots, and by the same token their commanding officers?

Gary

[Dolphin]

Gary

I think that the short answer is 'not very common'. I think (without any data to back me up) that it's more likely that an airman who was so mentally upset by events around him as to be pushed towards suicide would fall in combat before he reached that state. There were instances where airmen would decide that they simply couldn't fly anymore, or have that decision made for them by senior and/or medical staff. In the case of the RFC, a transfer to the Army could always be arranged.

The air services were not full of potentially suicidal alcoholics for a number of reasons: it must be remembered that airmen had been through several selection processes to get to an operational unit; the alternative to flying was life in the trenches; the men were, in the main, young and fit; and there was a strong sense of obligation and patriotism. The overwhelming majority simply carried out their duties. In many cases they did, however, suffer from long term health problems due to exposure to the noise, cold and vibration during the hours spent in open cockpits.

Regards

Gareth

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Gareth --

You mention that airmen had been through several selection processes before they got to an operational unit. I know at the beginning of the war only licensed pilots were allowed into the air service (RFC). They were then totally retrained from scratch. I know as the war wore on and attrition among pilots took its toll and recruitment standards were lowered. In fact the RFC actively advertised among the other services for recruits. My question is, was the Corps ever at a point (or have you ever heard of a circumstance) where they would allow an untrained-by-the-military aviator take to the air and fight?

For instance, has it ever happened that an RFC mechanic on the field (who knew how to fly) was ever called into emergency service as a pilot?

Gary

[Dolphin]

Gary

The short answers are: No and No.

To expand on those points, there was much more to operational flying that just being to fly the aeroplane. Much of a trainee pilot's time in the RFC, and the other air services, was spent learning the other aspects of the trade, including aerial photography, artillery observation, aerial gunnery, bombing aiming, etc. The particular skills would vary depending upon the type of aeroplane that a pilot was destined to fly. Then, after arrival at the Front, there would be a period of familarisation with the unit and the local area - this could be a very short period in desperate times, such as April 1917.

On the second question, I haven't heard of a mechanic who was a pilot in waiting. To learn to fly in pre-War times was an expensive business, and the persons who did so were most likely to come from what might be termed the 'officer class'. They would not be easily persuaded to become mechanics. However, there are several instances where an observer of a two-seater had to become an instant pilot when the real pilot was incapacitated. Many two-seaters had rudimentary controls in the observer's cockpit and squadron and flight commanders encouraged some elementary flying training.

If you haven't already read it, you might like to find a copy of Denis Winter's The First of the Few ISBN 0 7139 1287 2, which might give a good idea of flying organisation, although it concentrates on British fighter pilots.

Regards again

Gareth

[christine liava'a]

Well, I have an aircraftsman who may have flown.

He certainly knew how to by 1922.

If anyone can find out more about him, I'd be grateful

2nd Lt Frank V Fleming

RFC aircraftsman embarked per Argyllshire for Fiji 2 August 1919 owner of first aeroplane in Fiji, March 1922

[Dolphin]

Christine

It's been a while since we've corresponded.

There were a number of instances where a mechanic went on to pilot training. The best known of these would be Major J T B McCudden VC , DSO and bar, MC and bar, MM. RFC mechanics, like most British and Empire serviceman, were able to volunteer to be observers and/or pilots.

I think Gary was asking if there was an instance where a man who knew how to fly, but wasn't recognised as a pilot by the RFC or another service, was serving as a mechanic and was then asked/ordered to fly in combat during an emergency.

I haven't found anything on 2Lt F V Fleming. He should have been in the RAF after 1 April 1918. Do you have any other details on his service?

Regards

Gareth

[Jonathan Saunders]

Gary,

Obviously I have been following this thread and 1) thanks for asking these questions as I have found the contributions very interesting 2) sorry if I inadvertently re-routed this to an RFC route if you were thinking USAF (of course Americans and Canadians served in both the RFC and the French Air Service prior to US entry in the war in 1917).

Just a couple of further observations to the answers already provided that may interest you ... referring again to RFC experiences I am afraid.

Jimmy McCudden's elder brother, Bill, was the third NCO pilot to obtain his wings (1912). In August 1914 he crossed to France with 3 Sqn but as Transport Officer because at that time the RFC had more trained pilots than aircraft. When he was killed in May 1915 in a flying accident as an Instructor, he had accumulated over 200 hours flying time and was regarded as a very experienced pilot (as he would have been in August 1914).

When Billy Bishop left 85 Sqn Jimmy McCudden was touted as his successor as Squadron Commander. Apparently 85 Sqn pilots protested and McCudden's name was withdrawn - this episode has been put forward as an example of the elitist British class system ie. privileged schoolboys not wanting to be led by a working class lad even if he was a hero. However pilots of 85 Sqn were mainly American and Canadians. Bishop was known to party hard, McCudden on the otherhand was the consummate profesional and virtual teatotaller when in France. You can draw your own conclusions as to why McCudden (who was accepted by the privileged and well educated that made up 56 Sqn) was rejected by the pilots of 85 Sqn.

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Signals --

That’s a fascinating observation on the Jimmy McCudden affair. Historical incidents are not always so black and white as they may appear a first blush. Just like today, politics always comes into play somehow. It must have made for some interesting “discussions” between those aviators of different nations and customs. One can only marvel that they came to any conclusion at all. Boy would I have loved to be a fly on the wall during some of those meetings.

Also, to follow up on something you mentioned earlier about a "dispatch rider." I'm getting a mental image of someone riding through the mud on a motorcycle with a sidecar? Am I too far wrong? If not, what rank would this individual most likely be?

Gary

[Jonathan Saunders]

Also, to follow up on something you mentioned earlier about a "dispatch rider." I'm getting a mental image of someone riding through the mud on a motorcycle with a sidecar? Am I too far wrong? If not, what rank would this individual most likely be?

I have only seen photos of Dispatch Riders on a straight forward motorcycle ie no sidecar. Hendon Air Museum has a Phelam & Moore (P&M) and a Triumph Dispatch motorcycle in their collection from the WW1 period - not sure what other makes were used.

Just going back to the McCudden's - there were four brothers - Bill, Jimmy, Jack and Maurice. Bill was certainly a Dispatch Rider when in the Royal Engineers (RE) and Jimmy had served in this role as well but I cant remember if it was during his time with the RE or the RFC or both. I have certainly seen photos of him on motorcycles when in RFC uniform. Jack also went into the RE before transferring to the RFC - he had spent about 8 months on the Western Front with the RE as a Dispatch Rider. Maurice went straight into the RFC but was discharged in 1920. He went on to serve the Royal Aircraft Factory flying as an Observer on prototype aircraft and at the same time racing motorcycles at Brooklands. He held several speed records in different cc classes before his untimely death following a complicated stomach operation, aged 33.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Sorry forgot!! To my knowledge, rank of a Dispatch Rider could be anything from Private to Sergeant.

[MikeW]

The RFC normally used P&M and Douglas motorcycles and the RNAS normally used Sunbeam and Douglas.

Of course, anything could turn up and be pressed into service. I think I've seen a photo of a Norton being used.

Mike

[Guest Gary Davidson]

One some airbases during WW2 there were “canteen girls” present to give the aviators a sense of “being at home.” Were there any such female personnel on airbases in Europe during WW1?

Gary

[Jonathan Saunders]

One some airbases during WW2 there were “canteen girls” present to give the aviators a sense of “being at home.” Were there any such female personnel on airbases in Europe during WW1?

Gary

When the RFC and RNAS were amalgamated in 1 April 1918, a women's service was formed alongside. This was called the Women's Royal Air Force (WRAF). It was disbanded in December 1919. A "Member" could sign for home or mobile service but home in this instance meant an aerodrome near where they lived. Work was mainly administration (clerks), cooks and stores although some women served as fitters or drivers. Bearing in mind nurses were serving in rear areas and women had been serving as drivers in F&F for sometime, I suspect mobile service could mean overseas as well as elsewhere in the UK, although I am not sure how close they would have got to an aerodrome in a Front area.

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Signals --

Thank you for that.

Hope my next question isn’t too off topic.

I know that until up around 1915 French and German pilots and observers were carrying pistols and rifles aloft. Then, after the advent of the synchronized machine gun (first by the Germans and then by the Allies after a German plane was captured over the line) everything changed in aerial warfare.

My question is: Even after the advent of the synchronized gun did pilots and observers ever carry side arms aloft? If so, what type of handgun would this typically be?

[if anyone perchance had a picture I would be interested to see.]

Gary