Changing service number -how long would it take

[Guest]

Hello folks

Ive been puzzling for a while now about my Great Grandfather James Rose 29300.

He was a private serving with the 16th Sherwood foresters (Chatsworth Rifles). He was killed on or after July 15th 1916. He has no grave and is commemorated at the Loos memorial.

The puzzle for me is that according to the Regiment diary there were no casualties on the day he is supposed to have been killed.

Its been suggested that he could have been operating away from the Regiment. It does say in the diary that two groups of 35 men were transferred to the Royal Engineers (181st tunneling company).

Ive already read up quite a bit about the Royal Engineers and it seems a new service number would be given to men transferring, has anyone any idea how long this would take? if James had transferred he may well have been killed within about six weeks of moving so may not have received one.

Thoughts?

[clive_hughes]

There is no other unit attachment mentioned for him on the Medal Roll - indeed, unusually it doesn't even give his battalion!  

 

Perhaps the clue lies in the fact that he went missing "on or since" the date in question.  This can mean that the event actually occurred on a different day.  I'm not sure his personal file survived the bombing of the Army records in 1940, but casualty dates are effectively those on which a report of an incident was created (or in this case, a best guess was later taken as to the date died). 

 

That can be misleading: in one case I was researching, a man was shown as killed in action on a day and in a week when his unit was well behind the lines at "Rest", and no other unit attachment was given.  His file fortunately survived, and it was reasonably clear that he had been reported (twice in the papers) wounded and missing following a very scrappy night action near Loos.  Despite this, the authorities eventually dated his death in action as happening some three weeks later!  The only grounds for this which I could see was that a body had been recovered a couple of weeks after the event, and tentatively identified as his.  Correspondence showed that a chaplain and some men in charge of the trench "mortuary" were fairly sure the body was his, but were relying on their memories of his name & number.  That was embodied in a written report by the chaplain, and it was decided the evidence wasn't conclusive.  So the body was buried as an "Unknown of the X Regiment" and the record office people used the chaplain's report date as their basis for when he might have died (illogically, since they had decided the corpse wasn't his anyway).   

 

It's just possible that local newspapers for your relative's home area might carry mentions of his death from letters sent to his family at the time by comrades, officers, or chaplains - it's not unusual.  

 

Clive

[HolymoleyRE]

Hi, 

 

CWGC, has a number of other 16 Btn men killed on the 15th July 1916, attached to the 1st Btn South Staffs, but they seem to be buried at Serre Cemetery, which is some Kms from the Loos Memorial.

 

Interestingly and somewhat poignantly the man buried above George Rouse 16th Btn Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys) att 1st Btn South Staffs is an unknown SF man.....also note Rouse is on the Panel list record for the Loos Memorial with your Great Grandfather J Rose.

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/609771/rouse,-george/

 

And it would appear this man's spoon was also found in the grave?

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/30800/cassidy,-john/

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited 8 January , 2018 by HolymoleyRE

[HolymoleyRE]

The WD for the 1st Btn South Staffs, on the 10th July 1916 they received a draft of 150 Other Ranks as Reinforcements 110 men were from the Notts and Derbys.

 

On the 15th they were in action at Mansel Copse, and sustained heavy casualties.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited 8 January , 2018 by HolymoleyRE

[ss002d6252]

The soldiers effects records show him as still being with the Notts and Derby - if he was formally serving with anyone else then neither the Regimental Paymaster or the Effects Branch appear to have been advised of it.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

An old thread on same soldier here; are you related? Click

 

Mike

[Guest]

could be my cousin searching.

On 1/8/2018 at 08:16, HolymoleyRE said:

The WD for the 1st Btn South Staffs, on the 10th July 1916 they received a draft of 150 Other Ranks as Reinforcements 110 men were from the Notts and Derbys.

 

On the 15th they were in action at Mansel Copse, and sustained heavy casualties.

 

Regards

 

Andy

That sounds feasible .