9th (Russian) Labour Bn

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Probably one for Ivor, but does anyone know the origin of this Bn of the Labour Corps, were all the soldiers of Russian origin.?

(The one soldier I have traced to this unit was Eastern European Jewish)

Ian

[Ivor Lee]

Ian

The 9th Battalion of the Labour Corps was formed in Western Command as a Depot unit for the reception of men for the Russian Companies.

The battalion was stationed in South Wales at Fort Scoveston.

Sorry Ian, but no details about the Home Service men in this battalion. However many of the men were transferred to one of the Russian Companies in France.

A high proportion of the Russian Companies were made up of men of Russian and Polish origin but there were also non Jewish men in the Companies.

I would be interested to know his name and regimental number. I have identified about 700 members of the Russian Companies who served in France compared to only two who appear to have been in the UK only.

[Broznitsky]

Ivor, just on a wild chance, would you have the name SOKOLOVITCH, Sam ?

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Ivor,

556577 Pte Issac MILLER 9th (Russian) Labour Bn, Labour Corps. His record is to be found in WO 363.He appears to have been HS only & Para 392 in July 1918.

I will also mail you off forum.

Ian

[jhill]

We might remind ourselves that in those days "Russian" meant something different than what it does today. I have noticed that looking at Canadians whose origins were in, say, subcarpathian Ruthenia or Poland , who we today would call Poles or Ukrainians, they tended to be labelled Russian. Of course they were not Russian in any ethnic, social, or political sense, but Ukraine and Poland were not nations at all in those days.

Russia was a friend and Austria was an enemy. If one wanted to join the army, you told the recruiting officer you were Russian. If you said Austrian, not only would you not be accepted, you would be imprisoned as an enemy alien.

Just a thought.

[charlesmessenger]

Just to add to what Ivor has said, 8th and 9th Labour Bns came into existence as a result of ACI 414 of 19 April 1918. Up until then, most of the Russian Jews had been posted to the Jewish bns of the Royal Fusiliers (38th-40th, 42nd). But, Russia's withdrawal from the war caused unrest in these bns, most of whom were sent to the Middle East. The authorities there decided that no more men should be sent to the Royal Fusiliers, but would instead be formed into two Labour bns.

8th Bn formed up at Sevenoaks and drew from Eastern and Southern Commands, while the 9th covered not just Western Command, but Northern and Scottish as well. They sent three Labour companies to France during summer 1918 and a fourth just after the armistice.

The policy was to segregate these units from others, presumably to prevent any possible spread of Bolshevism.

Charles M

[Broznitsky]

In those days "Russian" meant something different than what it does today. I have noticed that looking at Canadians whose origins were in, say, subcarpathian Ruthenia or Poland , who we today would call Poles or Ukrainians, they tended to be labelled Russian.

A very valid point. Men from the territories of Galicia and Bukovina were known as Russians as well.

The WWI internment camps in Canada deserve a whole new topic! (Not necessarily on this forum, though).

[Ivor Lee]

SAM SOKOLOVITCH 558516 served in 1001 Company.

I will send you off list what information I have on this Company.

[Guest JohnnyCanuck]

A short (?) note on "Russians", particularly when you include Galicia, Bukovina, Poland, and the Ukraine as places of origin. Starting about 1765 (on invitation from Catherine the Great - a German Princess married into Russian royalty) , give or take a couple of years, there were major movements of Germanic ethnics, throughout various regions of the Tsarist Russian Empire, well into the 1800's. The "special privileges" extended to them by Russia, included amongst them, no mandatory military service. This was but one of the several primary reasons they had left for Russia - following countless military conflicts, especially the Seven Years War, and the Thirty Years War, which left them suffering in destitution. Many of the earliest settlers in Russia, in the lower Volga region, originated in Hesse. Diminished income from local taxes were offset by the noble house, when he hired out the Hessian men as "mercenary" troops, to other governments. For example, during the American Revolution, there were just over 17,000 Hessian troops fighting for the British Government - some officers whom would later stay in Canada, and claim United Empire Loyalist land grants. When I see the family name of Miller, I'm prompted to think that this man was of Germanic origin. These people, who had relocated throughout Russia, or Eastern Europe, are known largely today, as Germans from Russia. They had, by the time of WWI, since the 1870's, been compelled to spend 3 - 5 years service in the Russian Military. By the time of the Bolshevik uprising, they had no allegiance to Germany/Austria/Prussia; and in choosing the lesser of two evils, primarily sided against the Bolsheviks. This would cause untold misery in the decades to come - but that's another story. It should be noted also, that by this time, young men were enlisting in the Allied Armies, of other nations, such as Canada and the USA, where families had started emigrating to in the 1870's. As in the Russian Empire, their Germanic origins caused them problems in their new "homelands", and at varying times, they were Russian, or Polish, or Ukrainian, or whatever seemed to relieve the social pressure. They were from Lutheran, Catholic, and Jewish families predominantly. Just some "food for thought".

[mordac]

I know this is going off topic (sorry Ian), but the WW1 internment of Ukrainian Canadians has always bothered me. I guess what annoys me is the Government of Canada has never acknowledged this injustice and has never returned confiscated property or assets of those interned.

By 1914, there were approximately 170,000 Ukrainians who had immigrated to Canada; most settled in Western Canada. My father's family included.

Between 1914 and 1920 the federal government (under the War Measures Act of October 28, 1914) interned 5,441 Ukrainian Canadians. This included men, women, and children. An additional 80,000 had to report regularly to the local police or the Royal North West Mounted Police. This group was issued with identity papers that had to be carried at all times. Failure to carry the papers would result in a fine or internment. These Canadians were considered "enemy aliens" because they originally immigrated from the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Garth Chorney

P.S. - My families last name was changed to Chorney by an immigration official in Canada because he couldn't pronounce or spell my Grandfather's last name.