Cyril Naish & Men of the Rifle Brigade at Third Aisne, May 1918

[Mark Gardiner]

Another old sweat (Neil Mackenzie) and I are carrying out research on the Old Boys of Whitgift Middle School in Croydon who fell. One of these is Rifleman Cyril Frederick Richard Naish, who according to CWGC was serving with 2nd Battalion The Rifle Brigade when he was reported missing, presumed killed, on 27 May 1918 - the first day of the Third Battle of the Aisne.

 

There are contrary pieces of information regarding his service: -

• His service record did not survive.
• His service number is 46498 - no other number is noted on his medal index card or in Soldiers Died. He was not allotted a new Territorial number in 1917.
• WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls list him with the 3rd Battalion - his service number is one of a large batch of men listed with 3rd Bn. in these records, none with 2nd Bn.
• He was undeniably serving with the 2nd Battalion on 27 May 1918 and is commemorated on the Soissons Memorial.
• Soldiers Died has a large number of men from the Rifle Brigade killed on the same day, but some are listed as 2nd Battalion and some as 3rd Battalion - the latter was not on the Aisne.
• Possible red herring - Croydon & the Great War has Cyril serving with 5th Bn. London Regt. (London Rifle Brigade)!
• Army Service Numbers 1881-1918 & Howard Williamson's tome covering service numbers does not mention any Rifle Brigade numbers in the range 4xxxx.

 

So can one of our band help us out with these questions: -

1. Any idea when Cyril would have enlisted / conscripted based upon service number 46498? Note he was born on 3 April 1899.
2. From any research on other Rifle Brigade men on when what looks like a large batch of 3rd Bn. men would have been transferred to 2nd Bn? Both battalions were regular & on the Western Front.

 

Any guidance would be gratefully received.

Edited 1 January , 2018 by Mark Gardiner
Correct service number

[stiletto_33853]

Hi Mark,

Firstly Happy New Year and welcome to the Forum.

 

Will dig through what I have but these numbered men were either Territorials attached the The Rifle Brigade or transfers from other units and the Training Reserve. Numbers ranged from apart 40432 to 58074 and were enlisted quite late. There are some peculiarities in the number range which has one scratching one's head now and again. The KRRC had a similar number range being 40873 to 61312.

 

The 2nd RB received many drafts from other battalions, particularly in the first half of the war having been hammered at Neuve Chapelle, Fromelles, 25/9/15 and other dates. I must admit it has been a number series I have not looked at in any depth but will have a look to see what I have.

 

Andy

[MBrockway]

8 hours ago, Mark Gardiner said:

Rifleman Cyril Frederick Richard Naish, who according to CWGC was serving with 2nd Battalion The Rifle Brigade when he was reported missing, presumed killed, on 27 May 1918 - the first day of the Third Battle of the Aisne.

 

There are contrary pieces of information regarding his service: -

• His service number is 46498 - no other number is noted on his medal index card or in Soldiers Died. He was not allotted a new Territorial number in 1917.
• Possible red herring - Croydon & the Great War has Cyril serving with 5th Bn. London Regt. (London Rifle Brigade)!

 

1 hour ago, stiletto_33853 said:

 .... these numbered men were either Territorials attached the The Rifle Brigade or transfers from other units and the Training Reserve. Numbers ranged from apart 40432 to 58074 and were enlisted quite late. There are some peculiarities in the number range which has one scratching one's head now and again. The KRRC had a similar number range being 40873 to 61312.

Andy

 

Large numbers of the equivalent range in the KRRC were posted to battalions of the London Regiment, though apparently still on the strength of the KRRC and apparently awarded their medals as KRRC.

 

See as an example: 43604 Rfn William George TAYLOR, King's Royal Rifle Corps, attd. 1st/16th Bn. London Regiment (Queen's Westminster Rifles), died 28/08/1918

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1749431/taylor,-william-george/

 

MIC ...

 

 

Many in this range had originally been in the London Regiment and transferred into the KRRC.

 

Similar patterns are seen in the RB.

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

Andy: HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[Mark Gardiner]

Thanks very much & Happy New Year

[stiletto_33853]

The other way around as well, there are quite a few of these numbered men that served in the 5th London's and were then transferred to the RB at the end of the war never having served in the RB before.

 

Andy