Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

German cemeteries of the Great War in Belgium


Recommended Posts

This map (1/10K iso 1/20K) shows the unknown cemetery better for location and size, it looks small.

I didn't use this map before because not all cemeteries to the north of Beselare are on it.

http://maps.nls.uk//view/101464636

 

The ones to the south of Beselare are on this one and here is another unknown cemetery to me...

There were some British cemeteries in this area, made in sep - oct 1918 during the final advance. Nieuwe Kruiseecke Cabaret Cemetery is a well known one and was moved to Hooge Crater.

 

I have also found one that looks like a mass grave with casualties from the "First battle of Ypres" on 29 october 1914. 39 British were moved from here to ZANTVOORDE BRITISH CEMETERY. This was made by the Germans as they held that area after the battle and at least one of the British buried here is also listed at the ICRC:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/160584/stucley,-humphrey-st.-leger/ 

ICRC document stating unknown burial place: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/04/01/C_G1_E_04_01_0012/C_G1_E_04_01_0012_0122.JPG/

It is marked in black on the extract below and I think that there were Germans buried there as well but have no information on this.

 

Luc.

 

5a6e34f3a93f5_Beselaresudcemeteries.png.0c2be6be090f16ae90865a49b4654e0b.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at this Luc, the conclusion is that I really need to get to Brussel again to make some more copies from the maps with the cemeteries and field graves.

Ah, so much to learn, so little time...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Luc,

 

Just curious, regarding the mass grave ...

Where did you get the information that British men were moved from Map references 28.J.12.d.8.5 to Zantvoorde British Cemetery ? (I mean : apart from the Burial Return, where I see 6 men (Duncan etc.), but there may be more sheets with these co-ordinates, but unfortunately not browsable.)

I am asking because Michael Smith, The Ypres Salient (p. 136) only mentions, as cemeteries "concentrated here"

- Kruiseeke German Cemetery, Comines (north end of the village - 138 British men, most Oct.-Nov. 1914)

- Wervik German Cemetery (2 British 1 Canadian)

 

Am I right when I think that the mass grave cannot be Kruiseeke German Cemetery, as you: 39 British. So I wonder ...

 

Aurel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aurel,

 

the information does indeed come from the burial return sheets and you can browse some of them using the CEFSG files, see this topic:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/229379-cefsg-sharing-resources-with-gwf-sawgp-anzac-india-etc/

It takes some work and checking but there are more of these "mass graves" which are then filed in the category as "remains brought in from the battlefields" but could just as well be considered as small cemeteries if the documentation for these would not have been lost.

 

I don't know where Michael Smith retrieved his information but my figures for Kruiseecke GMC N° 80  are different: 

93 were moved to Zandvoorde and 62 to Tyne Cot.

The numbers of burials in German cemeteries are often wrong or incomplete, see Johan's files for the German burials. The same is true for the British ones listed at the Royal Army Museum in Brussels.

 

Sometimes the trench map reference on the burial return sheets are wrong also like this one for Tyne Cot:

http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc1836550.JPG

28.J.36.a.8.5 is not correct for the Kruiseecke cemetery (should be 28.J.36.c.7.5) or there would be another unknown German cemetery in the area....
I did check some of the names from this sheet on the ICRC database and they were buried at Kruiseecke N° 80, this confirms that the trench map ref. is indeed wrong.

 

There is still a small question mark in my files for the mass grave and the unknown cemetery on the map above: If there was an error made could they then be the same?

 

It is complicated, figures from different sources are not the same. I have worked for many years looking at these sheets, trench maps, books, internet.... and there are still questions.

I hope that this topic might solve some of these.

 

Luc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Luc !

 

I knew about the Binders, and I'll be honest ... somehow this looks a little too complicated for me (or maybe I don't have the patience ...) Yet I should, for I had seen that one of the cemeteries investigated is in my village (Boezinge), Artillery Wood Cemetery. I think I will give it another try.

 

When looking at Exhumation reports and Graves Registration reports forms and Concentration forms I also had faced some things that I thought were errors. Like men exhumed quite some distance from where they originally were buried. (Making me think - disrespectfully - if they in the period between both had crept like ... moles.) Things like that are not very motivating for me to continue and (no pun intended) dig deeper.

 

Also : The Kruiseke cemeteries always were a problem to me, not very transparent. Maybe because they are far away from where I live, and that I am not very familiar with the area.

 

Aurel

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...

A German soldier photographed to Ath, date unknown.

According to the uniform, is it possible to recognize the rank and the unit of this man?

papier034035.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ath, 2018: the ground which was the former German cemetery: Ehrenfriedhof 189, between « le chemin du champ des Dailles » and « le chemin des Dailles ».

 

Leonhard Böhm and his wife Ilse Böhm-Maier were buried in this place in November, 1918. Since the 1950s, they belong to Vladslo

Ath 1069.JPG

Vladslo 7541.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Johan,

 

this is what you have for Beitem German Cemetery:

 

Rumbeke Beitem – Militär Friedhof : probably 63 burials – moved to Ledegem 45 or 44 ?
The cemeteries at Beitem are, and that is the least one can say, mysterious.  Officially there should have been 63 German burials and 9 British burials…
Also, officially, they were moved to the Ehrenfriedhof 44 Ledegem Sint Pieter.
But… They are not in the burial book of the cemetery at the RAM.
The British burials were not found back.  Neither were the German ones.
Autor/historian Jan Vancoillie suspects that they are still there and never were moved, and that is probably the right conclusion on this matter.

 

The 9 Unknown British were moved to Dadizeele New British Cemetery in January 1920 from 28.F.1.d.5.4. and some were identified.

It looks to be all Life Guards from the fighting on October 19, 1914 to the north of Beitem, the CWGC records are not correct as I can't find them all in their database.

Example: Cooper E was found there but his date of death is obviously wrong: 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/162774/cooper,-/

 

Could it be that the German remains were moved at the same time because the land owner wanted his land back?

 

Luc.

 

 

doc2128355.JPG

 

doc2128356.JPG

 

doc2128282.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, LDT006 said:

Johan,

 

this is what you have for Beitem German Cemetery:

 

Rumbeke Beitem – Militär Friedhof : probably 63 burials – moved to Ledegem 45 or 44 ?
The cemeteries at Beitem are, and that is the least one can say, mysterious.  Officially there should have been 63 German burials and 9 British burials…
Also, officially, they were moved to the Ehrenfriedhof 44 Ledegem Sint Pieter.
But… They are not in the burial book of the cemetery at the RAM.
The British burials were not found back.  Neither were the German ones.
Autor/historian Jan Vancoillie suspects that they are still there and never were moved, and that is probably the right conclusion on this matter.

 

The 9 Unknown British were moved to Dadizeele New British Cemetery in January 1920 from 28.F.1.d.5.4. and some were identified.

It looks to be all Life Guards from the fighting on October 19, 1914 to the north of Beitem, the CWGC records are not correct as I can't find them all in their database.

Example: Cooper E was found there but his date of death is obviously wrong: 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/162774/cooper,-/

 

Could it be that the German remains were moved at the same time because the land owner wanted his land back?

 

Luc.

 

Luc,

 

I couldn't find any of the named German graves today, nor were there enough unknowns at St. Pieter where the dead were officially transferred to, hence my conclusion that they may not have been exhumed. The information that they would have been moved to St. Pieter is written on the register itself. Fact is that these Germans were never buried on St. Pieter...

(At the time of my book, the online burial sheets were unavailable and no mention is made of the transfer of British bodies from Beythem Cemetery to Dadizeele New in the description of that cemetery. Nor did the unit's war diary that made the cemetery mention anything about these British burials even though most of the German burials were described in detail, so I had no names to look for.)

 

So, the German bodies may indeed have been exhumed and trasferred at the same time (late 1919-early 1920). Where they were then taken to remains a mystery. Information from this period about German graves is extremely hard to find.

 

On top of this, there was confusion with another small cemetery at Beythem, which was exhumed and transferred to St. Pieter by 1922 (also very early). In the Brussels archives both cemeteries are considered as one (even with a wrong unit's name), which explains a lot of the confusion. I only managed to untangle the two cemeteries a few years ago., but a lot of questions remain.

 

Jan

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

Cimetière communal de Bonsecours

 

On November 10 and 11, 2018, « Le Cercle d'Histoire et d'Archeologie des deux Vernes » (Péruwelz Belgium) presented an exposure on the theme of 14-18. I visited this exposure).

Information sharing

243 soldiers were buried in the military cemetery of Bon-Secours (Belgium). The first graves were in August 1914, the last in November 1918. The nationality of the soldiers does not seem to have been important in the placement of the graves. The bodies of the English soldiers were transferred to Tournai in the early 1920s. As early as 11 September 1922, the commune de Bon-Secours was required to maintain Russian and German tombs. The commune then receives 450 Fr per year. In September 1932, the bodies of German soldiers were displaced ; prior to this date, 34 graves were placed in a semi-circle. In every German soldier’s coffin there was a bottle with a paper written in German, informing the names and given names of the deceased, the regiment to which he belonged, the lazaret where he was treated and where he died. The transfer of the bodies of the 2 Frenchmen to Douai took place on 15 September 1938. In July 1952, the maintenance of the German graves was handed over to the government of the Federal Republic of Germany. On 29 October 1955, German authorities announced that they would transfer the remains of 175 German soldiers to existing cemeteries. In July 1956, the private enterprise 'Georges Stark' of Ieper exhumed the bodies of German soldiers. They will be transferred to Vladslo and Langemark.

--------------------------------

« Le cercle d'histoire des 2 Vernes » owns the plan of this cemetery as well as the photo of the burial of a German soldier. They hope to get in touch with families. They also hope to know the places where these soldiers fought. Link: https://histoire-peruwelz.jimdo.com

---------------------------------

Total: 243 soldats.

Soldats Français (2)

Transferés le jeudi 15 septembre 1938 au cimetière militaire de Douai.

CAPPELAERE Joseph Jean (26e RIT décédé le 27 août 1914)

PINSON Léon René Alfred ( 26e RIT décédé le 12 novembre 1914)

Soldats Anglais (62)

AYNSLEY L T Private Seaforth Highlanders 12-04-1918 Tournai

BAIRD Alexander Private Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 15-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : BAIRT)

BAXTER William Private Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 08-04-1918 Tournai

CARDINELLI J A Private Gloucestershire Regiment 17-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : CARTENELLI)

CARTWRIGHT T Private Royal Scots 29-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : CARTWEIGHT)

CRAMPTON T Private West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 22-04-1918 Tournai

DENNIS J W Private East Yorkshire Regiment 23-04-1918 Tournai

DIBDEN F C Corporal Northumberland Fusiliers 06-05-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : DILETEN)

DIX Charles Private Royal Marine Light Infantry 11-05-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : pas de date)

FOSTER Thomas Private Seaforth Highlanders 31-03-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : 01-04-1918 ou 31-03-1918)

FOTHERGILL Arthur William Private The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) 19-04-1918 Tournai

GIFFEN Mathieu Private Highland Light Infantry 01-01-1915 Tournai

GREEN W Private Suffolk Regiment 25-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : 29-04-1918)

HOLDEN R Private 09-07-1918 Lancashire Fusiliers Tournai (Bon-Secours : HOLTEN)

JOHNSON Fred Driver Royal Field Artillery 25-06-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : JOHSON, pas de date)

JONES Edward Private South Staffordshire Regiment 11-04-1918 Tournai

JUDGE Thomas Private Manchester Regiment 28-12-1914 Tournai

McManus J Private Royal Fusiliers 10-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : MAEMANUS)

MANN W J Private Royal Warwickshire Regiment 25-04-18 Tournai (Bon-Secours : 29-04-1918)

MANSELL J Private Worcestershire Regiment 20-04-1918 Tournai

MITCHUL 10-05-1918  ?

MORMORUES James 10-04-1918   ?

MOSELEY Arthur Private Cheshire Regiment 25-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : 29-04-1918)

NESBITT John Private Northumberland Fusiliers 08-10-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : NESBIT 05-04-1918)

MITCHELL John Harold Private Gloucestershire Regiment 08-07-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : pas de date)

LACEY James Private Gloucestershire Regiment 09-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : régiment 5/N staffs, 203799)

LATHAM C F Serjeant Royal Fusiliers 04-04-1918 Tournai ( Bon-Secours : LATHAN)

LAUY 09-04-1918  ?? ==> LAY 23-04-1918 Tournai ?

OSEY Arthur Georges Private 04-04-1918 Gloucestershire Regiment Tournai (Bon-Secours : 04-04-1918 ou 02-04-1918)

OWENS W Private Argyll and Sutherland Highlander 16-04-1918 Tournai

PERRETT James Private Seaforth Highlanders 10-05-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : regiment 1/6 sfth Hrs N°28309)

PHIPPS Arthur Henri Private Bedfordshire Regiment 13-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : PHILLS 18-04-1918)

PRIDDEN James Serjeant The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 05-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : PRIDDEY ou PRIDDEN 05-04-1918)

ROBINSON Georges Private Royal Fusiliers 08-04-1918 Tournai

SCOTT Harry Walter Private Royal Warwickshire Regiment 06-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : Walter Harry)

SHEPPARD Albert Private Worcestershire Regiment 06-04-1918 Tournai

SMITH A Private Seaforth Highlanders 15-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : pas de A)

SHORT Olivier James Second Lieutenant Worcestershire Regiment 03-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : It o.g.)

STARR William Private Gloucestershire Regiment 09-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : regiment 8/glouces.R 34978 Pten° 64)

STTEPHERT 05-04-1918 ? (Bon-Secours : pas de prénom, )

TAMELATH 05-04-1918 ? (Bon-Secours : pas de prénom, )

TARRANT Cyril Harold Serjeant Suffolk Regiment 27-07-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : pas de prénom, pas de date)

TILLER Henry Private East Surrey Regiment 02-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : 31-03-1918)

TURNER S Private West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 08-04-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : TUNER)

WALKER J Corporal Worcestershire Regiment 19-10-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : cpl J, 1stWorcester Reg. N° 10803)

WOOD Hugh Private Seaforth Highlanders 05-04-1918 Tournai

WORTLEY Bernard Private West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 12-07-1918 Tournai (Bon-Secours : pas de prénom, pas de date)

+ 15 soldats inconnus

 

Soldats Russes (3).

 

  • MYCODUER Simon 23-12-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 648 (Bon-Secours : MYCODNER unité Ldst inf ? Btl 94 )

  • PITSCHUJIN Grigori 27-08-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 650 (Bon-Secours : PITSCHULJIN unité Ldst inf ? Btl 94,)

  • SEMEW Schischin 25-02-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 649 (Bon-Secours :unité Ldst inf ? Btl 94,)

 

Soldats Allemands (176).

 

  • ELSER Karl Vladslo Block 7 Grab 563 (Bon-Secours : du 49e Art, pas de date).

  • FENCHEL K August Gefreiter, 24-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 562 (Bon-Secours : FEUCHEL Karl August, pas de date )

  • BAUER Georg Schütze 27-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 561(Bon-Secours: Georges Johann, pas de date)

  • KLEIN Karl. Schütze 25-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 560 (Bon-Secours: pas de date)

  • SCHIERLE KARL. Sergeant 29-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 558 (Bon-Secours: SCHIELE pas de date)

  • OTTO Baltasar Landsturmmann 29-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 557(Bon-Secours: OTT Balthazar pas de date)

  • SERVA Willy Landsturmmann 03-11-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 547(Bon-Secours: SERVAS Willy Georges ; pas de date)

 

  • BATHELT Franz Reservist 30-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 607

  • BECKMANN Hermann Gefreiter 03-12-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 535 (Bon-Secours Hermann-Augwilhelm, gefr. 6/R.J.R.55,)

  • BERGER Friedrich Grenadier 03-05-1917, Vladslo Block 7 Grab 520 (Bon-Secours gren. 9/J.R.190

  • BEULKE Hugo Grenadier24-07-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 521 (Bon-Secours Hugo-Albert-Ernst 5 gard. R,)

  • BIRGLY Georg Musketier 26-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 612 (Bon-Secours BIRBLY, George, II/J.R.23,.sans croix)

  • BISCHOF Konrad Infanterist 06-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 588 (Bon-Secours BISCHOP, 4/bay J.R.II, sans croix).

  • BITTERMANN Oskar, Musketier 04-12-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 519 (Bon-Secours musk. 8/R.J.R.99,)

  • BLESSE Heinrich, Grenadier 10-01-1916. Vladslo Block 7 Grab 529 (Bon-Secours Heinrich, Wilhlem, Ferdin. gren. 4/1 gard R.Z.F.)

  • BODEMER Anton Kriegsfreiwilliger, 10-01-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 527 (Bon-Secours 5/bay R.J.R.1915 ou 1916)

  • BRIXIUS Vitus Unteroffizier 02-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 641 (Bon-Secours UTFFZ Arm. Flupg 17)

  • BRÜGGER August Fahrer 22-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 566 (Bon-Secours BRUGGER fahr I J.D )

  • BUNTE Wilhlem Pionier 29-09-1918,.Vladslo Block 7 Grab 608 (Bon-Secours, pion. 2R. Pion, sans croix)

  • DOLNY Franz Wehrmann 28-08-1914 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 514 (Bon-Secours, 9/fus R.34)

  • DÖRING Friedrich, Musketier 18-07-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 573 (Bon-Secours DORING Friedrich, Theodor 3/fldreck-dep)

  • DONNER Hermann Gefreiter 04-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 593 (Bon-Secours DORMER gefr. 9 feldart R.76, sans croix)

  • DURMANN Andréas Infanterist, 25-06-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 510 (Bon-Secours : inf. 9/bay J.R.19)

  • ERNST Lorenz Wehrmann 29-12-1914. Vladslo Block 7 Grab 531 (Bon-Secours : ldw 9/R.J.R. IO)

  • ESTERL Georg. Reservist 06-06-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 530. (Bon-Secours : rés 9/bay R.J.R. 13)

  • EWERT Karl, Unteroffizier 15-05-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 511. (Bon-Secours : Karl, Wilhlem-Martin Untffz 8/R. fssa R. 15)

  • FABIAN Paul Gefreiter 28-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 610 (Bon-Secours: I/rés ulan R 4, sans croix)

  • FLEGER Léonhard Pionier 15-01-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 536 (Bon-Secours: mineur bay min. K6)

  • FRAHM Gustav Landsturmmann 01-03-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 540 (Bon-Secours: ldst 7/J.R.92)

  • FRIEDRICH Wilhlem Landsturmmann 08-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 585 (Bon-Secours: ldst I/arm btl 64 sans croix).

  • FRIEDRICH Hugo unité ? 30-10-1918, (Bon-Secours sans croix).

  • FUGER Christian Sergeant 29-08-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 570 (Bon-Secours: 2 feld. Dep)

  • GANTE Wilhelm Musketier 13-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 596 (Bon-Secours Wilhlem, I/J.R.82, sans croix).

  • GEISSLER Ernst Kanonier 03-04-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 632 (Bon-Secours: Ernst, Friedrich 8/feldart R.32)

  • GEISSLER Rudolf Gefreiter 06-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 590 (Bon-Secours, II J.R.106 sans croix).

  • GOTHMANN Johann Musketier 21 octobre 1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 537 (Bon-Secours: Johann, Heinr., Wilhl. I/J.R.464)

  • GRONE August Armierungssoldat 30-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 606 (Bon-Secours: GRONE, 2/ arm btl 139, sans croix)

  • GSCHWENDTNER Georg. Kriegsfreiwilliger 05-01-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 525. (Bon-Secours : I/bay R.J.R.5)

  • HAAGE Willy Musketier 29-03-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 630 (Bon-Secours: 10/J.R.62)

  • HÄUSER Hermann Kriegsfreiwilliger 27-02-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 518 (Bon-Secours: HAUSER)

  • HECKEL Konrad Farher 29-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 603 (Bon-Secours: I/bay fssart btl 20, sans croix)

  • HEUER Wilhelm Landsturmmann 04-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 594 (Bon-Secours Wilhlam ldst 2 ldst inf., sans croix).

  • HÜBNER Karl Wehrmann 25-08-1914 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 513 (Bon-Secours : HUBNER II fus. R 34)

  • HÜBSCHER Ernst Reservist 30-05-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 545 (Bon-Secours: HUBSCHER 6/R.J.R. 22)

  • IRRGANG Arthur Flieger 28-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 550 (Bon-Secours IRPGANG flieg Arm.flugp 17)

  • JAECK Otto Pionier 22-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 565 (Bon-Secours: pionier IJD)

  • JOCKSCH Emil Musketier 06-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 589 (Bon-Secours JOCHSCH 10 J.R.55, sans croix).

  • JUNG Wilhelm Flieger 05-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 635 (Bon-Secours: jagdstaf 5)

  • KAISER Alfred Unteroffizier 03-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 646 (Bon-Secours: Max, Alfred, stab. Etap. Insp. 17)

  • KALINOWSKI Silvester Landsturmrekrut 11-08-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 583 (Bon-Secours: ldst feldrock dep. 199)

  • KAPPROL Peter Schütze 23-07-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 572 (Bon-Secours: scharfschutz 9)

  • KAPUNE Ferdinand Ersatz-Reservist 06-04-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 633 (Bon-Secours: 6/R.J.R. 9I)

  • KERGZMANN Franz Gefreiter 04-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 616 (Bon-Secours: KERGMANN, 7/J.R.92, sans croix)

  • KESELER Walter Musketier 09-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 595 (Bon-Secours: KESCLER Walter, Karl, 2 R.J.R.208, sans croix).

  • KIRCHNER Otto Gefreiter 22-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 568 (Bon-Secours: gefr. I J.D)

  • KLASS Josef Fahrer 23-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 577 (Bon-Secours: I J.D)

  • KLANN August Musketier 01-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 564 (Bon-Secours: R.J.R.43)

  • KOCH Hermann Pionier 23-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 569 (Bon-Secours: pion. I J.R)

  • KOWALSKI Josef Fahrer 14-09-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 546 (Bon-Secours: KOWAHSKI R fssart R 7)

  • KREBS Karl Musketier 04-02-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 541 (Bon-Secours: 12/J.R.142)

  • KROHN Adolf Unteroffizier 03-09-18 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 592 (Bon-Secours: pas de date décès, Utffz 2 J.R.76, sans croix).

  • KÜCHLER Arthur Sergeant 09-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 586 (Bon-Secours KUCKLER I ldw fsart Btl 57 sans croix).

  • KÜHLE Hermann Landsturmmann 12-04-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 631 (Bon-Secours: KUHLE, ldstm Et. Insp. 17)

  • KUHNERT Max Musketier 30-08-1914 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 639 (Bon-Secours: M.G./J.R.93)

  • LANDWEHR Wilhlem 05-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 591 (Bon-Secours: Blinkr.O.H.L. Blinkzug, sans croix).

  • LAPPÖHN Hermann Pionier 22-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 567 (Bon-Secours: LAPPOHN pion. I J.D)

  • LEDEN Fritz Musketier 26-08-1914 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 638 (Bon-Secours: 3/3 Magdeb J.R. 66)

  • LORMIS Johann Armierungssoldat 06-09-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 522. (Bon-Secours: LORMES 4/arm Btl 28)

  • MAJONECK Kurt Kanonier 04-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 634 (Bon-Secours: I/feldart R 48)

  • MARHÖFER Stéfan Schütze 04-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 618 (Bon-Secours: MARHOFER Stéfan, R.J.R. 240, sans croix).

  • MELLENSTEIN Fritz Kanonier 14-07-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 575 (Bon-Secours: MELLENTIN kraptwg kol 254)

  • MERK Josef unité ???, décédé 01-11-1918, (Bon-Secours sans croix).

  • MEYER Hermann Musketier 28-01-1917, Vladslo Block 7 Grab 509 (Bon-Secours : 3 feld. Dep. 50 R.D.)

  • MEYER Heinrich Gefreiter 30-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 611 (Bon-Secours: 4/J.R. 92, sans croix).

  • MÖBIUS Max Gefreiter 30-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 609 (Bon-Secours: MOBIUS, 4/2 Ulan R.18, sans croix).

  • MÜLLER Ernst Gefreiter 18-02-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 542 (Bon-Secours: MULLER 4/feld. Rg 2)

  • MÜTZEL Sébastian Wehrmann 06-04-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 512.(Bon-Secours : MUTZEL ldw 5/bay J.R.6)

  • NEESE Johannes 14-07-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 574 (Bon-Secours: flugsechuler flugp 17)

  • NEITZEL Albert Landsturmmann 08-101918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 619 (Bon-Secours: ldst 8/J.R. 62, sans croix).

  • NIEBAUER Johann Wehrmann 24-01-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 528 (Bon-Secours : ldw 8/bay rés J.R. 2)

  • NIENS Wilhlem Sergeant 08-07-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 580 (Bon-Secours: NIEUS Sachs ferup)

  • NIKOLAISEN Waldemar Gefreiter 14-11-1914 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 534 (Bon-Secours: 7 jag. R.Z. pf)

  • NOLL Karl Unteroffizier 07-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 587 (Bon-Secours 5 Kol fsart R.28, sans croix).

  • OBERMULLER Franz Pionier 11-08-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 571 (Bon-Secours: OBERMULLER Off. Kanal Medestelle Blaton)

  • ODER Julius Wehrmann 30-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 605 (Bon-Secours: 2/J.R.66, sans croix).

  • OFENBECK Ludwig Pionier 01-07-1918) Vladslo Block 7 Grab 551 (Bon-Secours: Arm. Flugp 17)

  • OTTO Conrad Pionier16-09-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 505 (Bon-Secours: Bat 25)

  • OYMANN Wilhelm Reservist 01-01-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 523. (Bon-Secours: Wilhlem, rés. 6 J.R. 56)

  • PAFFRATH Wilhlem unité musk. décédé le 31-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 644 (Bon-Secours: 12/R.J.R.30)

  • PAMP Emil Sergeant 18-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 642 (Bon-Secours: flieg Arm flugp 17)

  • PAWLAK Andréas Pionier 24-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 579 (Bon-Secours: I M.W)

  • PFEIFFER Hermann Unteroffizier 26-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 601 (Bon-Secours: Sam. Dep. Nord, sans croix).

  • PLAGGE Hermann Gefreiter 05-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 615 (Bon-Secours: 2/J.R.92)

  • POSSEKEL Josef Flieger 02-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 640 (Bon-Secours: ARM. Flugp 17)

  • RAAB Johann Gefreiter 30-08-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 584 (Bon-Secours: 14 bay rés pion)

  • RÄDEKER Wilhlem Musketier 02-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 647 (Bon-Secours: RADEKER, R.J.R. 30)

  • RADOJEWSKI Kasimir Wehrmann 31-01-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 517 (Bon-Secours, land. II/J.R.56)

  • RADZKO Otto Pionier 22-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 578 (Bon-Secours: I J.D)

  • REISE Fritz Gefreiter 02-02-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 539 (Bon-Secours: 7/J.R. 395)

  • RICHTER Karl unité gefr. 18-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 598 (Bon-Secours: 5/J.R. 49, sans croix).

  • RIESELER Erich Musketier 16-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 622 (Bon-Secours: 3/J.R.J. 228)

  • RINGAT Karl Gefreiter 31-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 645 (Bon-Secours: I/fssart R4

  • RÖCKER Adolf unité 02-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 613 (Bon-Secours:ROCKER, I/arm Btl 31, sans croix)

  • RUSCHINSKY Gustav Gefreiter 05-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 617 (Bon-Secours: RUSCHINSKI 2/kur.R.5, sans croix)

  • SCHACK Ludwig Landsturmmann 28-08-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 544 (Bon-Secours: ldst 4/Btl Hamb)

  • SCHERMELE Rudolf Musketier 03-01-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 515. (Bon-Secours musk. 7/J.R.57)

  • SCHILLER Robert Musketier 15-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 637 (Bon-Secours: Feldreck dép 20)

  • SCHIMTZ Heinrich Wehrmann 24-011915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 524. (Bon-Secours : ldw.3/ pion.Btl 7)

  • SCHIMTZ Peter Kanonier 04-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 614 (Bon-Secours: 4/feld. R 63, sans croix).

  • SCHNEIDER Otto Gefreiter 10-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 549 (Bon-Secours: Arm. Flugp 17)

  • SCHREIBER Kaspar Pionier 27-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 602 (Bon-Secours: 2/2 pion. Btl 18, sans croix).

  • SCHNEE Georg Landsturmmann 08-07-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 581 (Bon-Secours: SCHUCE ( ?) George, feld. Rék. Dep. 26)

  • SCHWARTZE Heinrich Musketier 11-06-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 532 (Bon-Secours : Heinrich, Friedrick, 10/J.R.56)

  • SEIBOLD Valentin Gefreiter 27-12-1914 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 533 (Bon-Secours Bay/R.J.6)

  • SEIFERT Herbert Infanterist 18-06-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 548 (Bon-Secours: stab. D 24 J.R)

  • SEYDEL Hermann Soldat 24-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 599 (Bon-Secours: 4 J.R. 106, sans croix).

  • SPRINGSTUBBE Wilhlehm Sergeant 21-03-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 628 (Bon-Secours: 4/feld. R.54)

  • STACHOWIAK Lorenz Musketier 16-03-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 627 (Bon-Secours: 10/J.R.360)

  • STÖHR Paul Musketier 12-10-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 506 (Bon-Secours: STOHR Paul-Arthur, 6 J.R. 65)

  • STROZYK Michaël Landsturmrekrut 19-01-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 538 (Bon-Secours: ldst 2/I ldst Btl Postdam)

  • TEITGE Hermann Gefreiter 03-11-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 508 . (Bon-Secours, Fuhrp. Kol 631)

  • THIERMANN Wilhlem Musketier 08-03-1918 Vladslo: Block 7 Grab 626 (Bon-Secours: 6/J.R. 79 ég)

  • TREDER Franz Musketier 06-05-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 526. (Bon-Secours : Franz, Paul, 9/Inf. rég. 57)

  • VOLLBRECHT Heinrich Landsturmmann 09-07-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 582

    (Bon-Secours: VOLLBRCHT ldst I/5 Inf. Batl Cassel)

  • WEILAND Otto Jäger 05-01-1915 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 516 . (Bon-Secours : jag. 4/jag. btlII)

  • WEINMANN Karl Wehrmann 28-03-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 629 (Bon-Secours: Wttg fld Laz 502)

  • WIERBER Josef Kanonier 02-10-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 604 (Bon-Secours: 2/feldart R. 50, sans croix).

  • WIEDERHOLD Justus Unteroffizier 23-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 643 (Bon-Secours: Justus-Carl, Arm. Flugp 17)

  • WILLE Hermann Flieger 23-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 600 (Bon-Secours: Arm. Flgp 17 sans croix).

  • WYTLEWSKI Johann Grenadier 13-09-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 597 (Bon-Secours 3/2 gard.R.R , sans croix).

  • ZEGAR Stanislaus Musketier 26-08-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 543 (Bon-Secours: 12/J.R. 393)

  • ZENKE Karl Kanonier 10-05-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 636 (Bon-Secours: Karl, Arthur, Hermann, 9/I gard. Feldart)

  • ZIMBINSKI Viktor 12-07-1918 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 576 (Bon-Secours: abtg 218)

  • ZIMMERMANN Georg. Gefreiter 14-10-1917 Vladslo Block 7 Grab 507 (Bon-Secours Art. Mun. Kol 4)

Un MERK Josef repose au cimetière de Bouchain, 01-09-1918

Un Friedrich Hugo repose au cimetière de Quesnoy-sur-Deûle 18-05-1915

Un Friedrich Hugo repose au cimetière de Dun-sur-Meuse 27-08-1916

 

Les inconnus sont à Langemarck

Encore 49 tombes (= inconnus) à remettre dans ce document avec des n° de repérage :

  • Inconnu : tombe 99a, n° de repérage 14489, avec croix.

 

No found

Aviator

No cross

No cross, exception

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

Johan, best wishes for 2019, good health... made through the Great War Forum . Christian

To Ath, I continue my research about Ilse and Leonhard Böhm.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The picture : lazaret Bon-Secours.

Blessés Allemands Bon-Secours.jpg

Edited by christiandup
aligment
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 11 months later...

Apparently four cemeteries were created by the Germans between Zonnebeke and Broodseinde (not to be confused with the cemeteries at the Broodseinde cross-roads).

The description of Bedford House Cemetery mentions two of these: Four British Cemeteries were made by the Germans on the Broodseinde-Zonnebeke road; No.1 contained the graves of 31 United Kingdom soldiers (mainly 2nd East Surrey) who fell in April 1915, and No.3 those of 69 who fell in April, and May 1915.

The Tyne Cot description also mentions one of these: Zonnebeke British Cemetery No.2, on the road between Zonnebeke and Broodseinde, in which the Germans buried 18 men of the 2nd Buffs and 20 of the 3rd Royal Fusiliers who fell in April 1915.

There is nothing for cemetery No 4.

 

I can't find anything else for these cemeteries in publications, books or the internet. Is there more information available?

The above suggests that they were created in 1915 but I have found several soldiers there who died in October 1914. 

The cemeteries at the Broodseinde cross-road were used by the Germans to concentrate field graves, is this the same for these four cemeteries?

 

Thanks,

Luc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
David_Blanchard

A curious burial relating to Kruiseecke cemetery - Albert Cooper buried at Tyne Cot - died 7 November 1914 on official record but burial return states 22 April 1915- he was originally from Kruiseecke cemetery. Soldiers Died also states he died on 22 April 1915. 
 

Any idea why there is a discrepancy in the two dates?

 

David 

75DF4570-2DBA-4C35-9BB7-8A88CF36DB2B.jpeg

825223AD-0F3C-491C-B176-83E41C5EFE80.jpeg

87255571-45F5-4264-9212-7FF51FF9759A.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

A pure guess-   If buried in a German cemetery and then concentrated, then probably a POW.  How about 1) Missing 7 October 1914, later "presumed dead for official purposes" - and 2) then later  grave found, with German records that he died at the later date- either on the grave (or civil records if in a civil cemetery,as was the German habit) or from records put through by the German Government.

 

Alas, I cannot spot a Red Cross card for him, which would seem the likeliest place to look.  At what date was he reported as a casualty?  And was this amended at some point? 

 (" Previously reported.....").  Is there a pension card with a date?

Link to post
Share on other sites

22 April 1915 must be a mistake, the date at CWGC is correct.

He was buried in trench grave "D" together with others who died in October 1914. These trench graves were made by the Germans to concentrate field graves from the area.

His ICRC enquiry card does not show the date of its creation but has a date 6/1/15 so he died earlier than 22 April 1915.

 

Luc.

 

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/15/01/C_G1_E_15_01_0019/C_G1_E_15_01_0019_3182_0.JPG/4 

spacer.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LDT006 said:

His ICRC enquiry card does not show the date of its creation but has a date 6/1/15 so he died earlier than 22 April 1915.

The date refers to Arthur Cooper not Albert, there are two different soldiers on the card.

Link to post
Share on other sites
David_Blanchard

What is also interesting is another man killed in the Gloucestershire Regt that day is a relative of former England cricketer Jack Russell- it looks as though he died in German captivity from Red Cross records- and I assume he is now one of the unknowns buried in Tyne Cot cemetery next to Cooper.

 

Jack Russell produced this painting assuming his uncle was killed outright in this attack. 
Lieutenant Kershaw mentioned in Gloucestershire WD is also on this Red Cross record. 

8A29CBC4-51D5-4F3D-ACDF-3E6EE14598F6.jpeg

762B77FF-80B9-47A2-BF22-E8EEF444ECEE.png

4803DB47-C48B-4608-8A29-3213A623377D.png

Edited by David_Blanchard
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

The date refers to Arthur Cooper not Albert, there are two different soldiers on the card.

 

The 2 cards are for the correct A Cooper, service number 7212, and the documents are for his grave.

We don't know when these cards were created but ICRC made a mistake with Arthur Cooper (POW at Magdeburg)  but the date proves that the cards were made before January 1915.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

The documents are dated 1916 and don‘t throw any light on the decrepancy

 

This are the documents that the Germans created when they concentrated the field graves in 1916 to the cemetery at Kruiseke. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Transcription error.    The reference for Gloucester Cooper is to ICRC page 6531, a list of British dead buried at Kruiseke.  On the same page are 4 other men of the Gloucesters:

image.png.579fe904f711c59dbb3820d7836da165.png

image.png.1d993c7dde051e16c78bb48e2cdffa09.png

image.png.d565d1b1ed99eecca9e3e412ac67bf9e.png

image.png.135ae751395536868f2922809802ab5c.png

 

     1st Gloucesters from October 1914 seem to have gone to Tyne Cot- the confusion is likely to be  with Waite, killed in April 1915 and at Zantvoorde

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

Transcription error.    The reference for Gloucester Cooper is to ICRC page 6531, a list of British dead buried at Kruiseke.  On the same page are 4 other men of the Gloucesters:

image.png.579fe904f711c59dbb3820d7836da165.png

image.png.1d993c7dde051e16c78bb48e2cdffa09.png

image.png.d565d1b1ed99eecca9e3e412ac67bf9e.png

image.png.135ae751395536868f2922809802ab5c.png

 

     1st Gloucesters from October 1914 seem to have gone to Tyne Cot- the confusion is likely to be  with Waite, killed in April 1915 and at Zantvoorde

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt that Waite died in April 1915, it should probably be late October 1914 as well as he was buried in the same cemetery by the Germans (and he is on the same list in the ICRC files).

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

 

I doubt that Waite died in April 1915, it should probably be late October 1914 as well as he was buried in the same cemetery by the Germans (and he is on the same list in the ICRC files).

 

     Agreed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, David_Blanchard said:

What is also interesting is another man killed in the Gloucestershire Regt that day is a relative of former England cricketer Jack Russell- it looks as though he died in German captivity from Red Cross records- and I assume he is now one of the unknowns buried in Tyne Cot cemetery next to Cooper.

 

The PA document in your last post is dated 26/4/1915. I have a whole list of Canadians and DLI soldiers with an incorrect date of death at CWGC, these were all on such German lists and the army or IWGC used the date of the document as date of death.

This is a possible explantion for your original question, there could be a list dated 22 April 1915 with Albert Cooper on it.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
David_Blanchard

Is there a trench map for the grave reference 28. J.36.8.5 for Kruiseeke German Cemetery? Tried this ref on tmapper- would accept number 36.

 

David 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...