1st Manchesters att'd 1st OBLI- at Kut Siege 1915/16

[charlie962]

Manchester Regt attached OBLI - Siege of Kut 1915/16

 

It is well known that the 1st Manchesters, who were stationed in India before the war, served in France 1914/15 before being recalled to reinforce the army in Mesopotamia where they took part in the attempted Relief of Kut in early 1916. What is less well known is that there were at least three 1st Manchesters men holed up inside Kut under siege from 7/12/15 -29/4/16. These three endured all the privations of the siege before going into Turkish captivity from which only one of them emerged alive. What were they doing there in the first place ?

 

 The Mespot campaign of 1914/15 was a classic example of mission creep, compounded by underestimation of the fighting qualities of the Turk, underestimation of the terrrain and climatic conditions and a dishonourably parsimonious attitude of 'India' to the matter of logistics and medical support. All this finally turned sour at the Battle of Ctesiphon in November 1915 resulting in the retreat of the previously very successful 6th Poona Division to the town of Kut-el-Amara where the divisional commander, Maj Gen Townshend, determined to make a stand. Thus began the Siege.

 

The huge casualties of 1915 were made up by paring down Territorial units in India, mobilising more reservists, returning recovered wounded and sick, as well as drawing reinforcements from other theatres.

 

The three men I have identified so far are:
       9224  David Hughes         born Toxteth c1886           14/15 Star entry 21/10/15    survived
       9274  Walter Shooter       born Radford,Notts 1886  14/15 Star entry 25/8/15     died PoW 1917
        121  John Henry Lacey   born Plymouth 1886         14/15 Star entry 25/8/15     died PoW 1916

 

What they all had in common was that they were all old soldiers of 1903/4 enlistment in the 1st Manchesters (all 3 appear on the India 1911 census at Kemptee for the regiment) and were mobilised from the Reserve in 1915 after their unit had left for France. They were all sent to Mespot as reinforcements and attached to the 1st Ox & Bucks Light Infantry who had been been fighting there since 1914 as part of Force D. It was with 1OBLI that they found themselves inside Kut.

 

Only Shooter has a surviving Service File that I could find. He enlisted 12/10/03 and transferred to the Reserve 12/10/12 with permission to live in India. There he worked as a fitter/fireman for the East India Railway Company at Allahabad. He was mobilized 31/7/15 and attached to 1st OBLI 25/8/15, the same date shown as entry to Mespot.After capture at the fall of Kut he will have undergone those terrible marches under brutal conditions, surviving a long time until he died of beri-beri at Allepo in January 1917. I could not find a ICRC record for him. He was buried in the PoW cemetery Allepo according to a fellow prisoner. His actual grave was never found by the CWGC and he is commemorated on the Basra Memorial. His Service file contains NoK details.

 

Lacey (often shown incorrectly as Lacy) was also an East India Railway Co employee, Allahabad and most probably followed the same path as Shooter, ie mobilization July 1915 then sailed to Mespot and attached 1st OBLI Aug 1915. He too will have been taken prisoner on 29/4/16 and suffered terribly with the others. There is an ICRC card showing him alive at Angora at some time 1916. But he is recorded as dying 16/9/16 and buried Kizil Irmak cemetery from which he was exhumed after the war and reburied at Baghdad. CWGC also tell us he left a widow Clarisa Evelyn of Taki Rd, Nagpur. There is an Ancestry tree with a photograph of him as part of a 1st Manchesters hockey team.

 

Hughes was a survivor. He must have enlisted shortly before Shooter but although he is on the 1911 Kemptee census I don't know any more about his early career, when he transferred to Reserve and where he worked until mobilized.For that matter I haven't been able to identify his family background ? He was sent to Mespot later than the others but was alo attached to 1st OBLI. The ICRC records show that he taken at the fall of Kut and spent time at both Afion Kara Hissar (AKH) and Ismdt camps. His fascinating account of his time in captivity is one of the sources quoted by Lady Dorina Neave in her book Remembering Kut, so he was still alive in 1936. I should qualify this by saying that I think Neave has mixed 2 different accounts as quite a bit of what she has attributed to Hughes I have seen in another man's original account. She also distinguishes between a C.Hughes and a D.Hughes but I suspect they are one and the same. She makes quite a few errors on names but the stories are accurate. Well worth reading in order to appreciate what they all went through.

 

What makes a survivor, besides good fortune ?

I have yet to look through the OBLI history to see if there is mention of drafts from the Manchesters or other units.How quickly after landing at Basra would they have actually met up with the Bn? Did they fight in any of the battles before Kut, or even inside Kut? I wondered whether they were attached as general reinforcements or for a specific purpose ?  [edit- see post5 below]

 

Were they mobilised later because they were in important occupations eg Railways for at least 2 of them?

 

 I have gone through all the easily available sources- Medal Rolls, MICs, CWGC, SDGW, Effects, CasLists, ICRC, Ancestry trees and can provide the links if needed. But I don't have access to any Regimental Museums eg Manchesters or OBLI. If anyone can add to these individual stories I would be grateful to know. It is important that these men are remembered correctly.

 

Charlie

 

Edited 29 December , 2017 by charlie962

[charlie2]

Charlie

There were two more Manchesters taken at Kut on 29.04.

 

3280 Pte James Beswick, recorded as being held at AKH 01.10.1916, Baghdad Hospital 02.05.1916 and Constantinople 05.03.1917. Pte Beswick survived.

 

John Blackburn Bradburn, served as 4893 Arthur Stubbs, recorded at AKH 15.10.1916 and Baghdad Hospital 02.05.1916. He died of Dysentery  30.11.1916

 

Lacey was held at Camp 227 at Angora.

 

Charlie

Edited 29 December , 2017 by charlie2
Bradburn's name corrected

[charlie962]

19 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

3280 Pte James Beswick,

I don't believe this man was taken at Kut. The ICRC card says so but the detailed sheet (R50102) does not. Whoever prepared the card guessed! The Worcester Yeomen were definitely not taken at Kut. It is most probable he was taken at the same time as Gettings and Sims (see R7181).

 

R50102 extract (interesting to see YeatsBrown on same page!) 

 

R7181 extract (Baghdad Hospital)

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

55 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

John Bradburn, served as 4893 Arthur Stubbs

I would again say that Stubbs was not taken at Kut. The ICRC record has no entry for 'taken at Kut' against his name and none of the men on R7183 are Kut units ! In fact the list has a datestamp 2/5/16 which means it cannot relate to Kut but must be for an earlier battle by the Relief Force. The Turks took months to produce lists of OR prisoners, if they did at all.

 

But I am open to correction.

 

Charlie

Edited 29 December , 2017 by charlie962

[charlie962]

This comes from the OBLI Lightbobs site for 1st Bn August 1915.  Lacey and Shooter were part of this group. The Bn was at Amara so the reinforcements were able to join quickly.

 

                                                  

This probably means that Lacey and Shooter participated in two major actions, Es Sinn end of Sept 1915 and Ctesiphon end of November. The Bn suffered some 85 casualties at the first and over 400 at the second. 

 

Hughes, who landed 21/10/15 probably joined up early Nov and might have been at Ctesiphon and the retreat back to Kut.

Edited 29 December , 2017 by charlie962

[charlie2]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

I would again say that Stubbs was not taken at Kut. The ICRC record has no entry for 'taken at Kut' against his name and none of the men on R7183 are Kut units ! In fact the list has a datestamp 2/5/16 which means it cannot relate to Kut but must be for an earlier battle by the Relief Force. The Turks took months to produce lists of OR prisoners, if they did at all.

 

But I am open to correction.

 

Charlie

The evidence is conficting, his notice of death states taken at Kut - R14354. Stubbs is listed variously as Stubbs, Bradport and Bradlurn.

 

Charlie

 

[charlie962]

5 hours ago, charlie2 said:

The evidence is conficting,

With respect ...The earliest list on which he appears is that stamped (by whom ?) on 2/5/16. My view is that since none of the other men on that list are Kut and since the list has a date** before even the wounded prisoners had reached Baghdad then the death cert you show is incorrect in attributing his capture to the fall of Kut.

 

Furthermore I cannot see a 14/15 medal Roll for him which he would certainly be entitled to if he was inside Kut?

 

I see that 'J Bradburn 4893'  is on a daily casualty list dated 14/4/16 so wounded a month or so before?  Subsequently this is revised to 'wounded and missing', then the name changes to A Stubbs, then becomes a 'prisoner'.  If he was inside Kut when wounded he would not have been reported as 'wounded and missing'.

 

But I'm still open to correction!

Charlie

 

edit ** Those sick at Kut that weren't sent down-river for exchange were not moved from Kut until 9/5/16 on the old Julnar and this dreadful journey to Baghdad took 10 days. Some fell overboard enroute, others lay on deck in the blazing sun with no awning...

Edited 29 December , 2017 by charlie962

[charlie2]

Charlie, 

You are right and I have no intention of trying to correct you . The death notice is obviously where the RC drew its place of capture information from. Thanks for the casualty list info.

 

Charlie

[johntanner]

The History of the 43rd lists:

 

Pte Lacey (Manchester Regt) died Aug 1916 at Ahmed Pasha Hiftlik

 

9274 L/Cpl W Shooter (Manchester Regt) died June 1916 between Samarra and Rays al ‘Ain

 

1935 L/Cpl Hillman (Manchester Regt) probable and known survivors from Reservists.

Edited 29 December , 2017 by johntanner

[johntanner]

Hillman is Edward Calloway, 1/Manchesters, entry into theatre 28/5/15. Discharged 30/3/19.

 

ICRC records suggest he was a prisoner at Kara Hissar and his wife was living in Bangalore.

[charlie962]

4 hours ago, charlie2 said:

You are right 

I have to highlight this. I do like it when people say this (its so rare).

 

Stubbs/Bradburn is an ideal candidate for a Dujaila Redoubt casualty.  His wounding was first reported 14/4/16 suggesting actual wounding 4-8 wks earlier which fits well with the 8th March 1916 date of that battle. On that day the Manchesters got into the Turkish trenches before being bombed out (the Turks had more bombs than we did) and driven back under a subsequent counter attack. Inevitably in such a scenario there will be many men seen to be wounded earlier on but subsequently untraceable- thought of perhaps to be in the medical chain but subsequently found to be missing. Just look at the Manchesters' casualties that day (40%), particularly the missing:

            

                 

 

Edit-  Sims 2767 and Gettings 13522 in post3 are also good candidates for Dujaila casualties.Both  reported missing Daily List 18/4/16. Both subsequently died in captivity.

 

The best indicator will be the 14/15 Star. If they had one and entry is to Mespot then probably they were Reservists sent to top-up other units. If the entry is to France (as is the case for Beswick) then they presumably went to join 1st Manchesters there and will not have landed back in Mespot until 8Jan 1916 and thus could only be part of the Relief Force.

If they don't have a 14/15 star or do have a 14 Star they will be 1st Manchesters Relief Force.

 

I will now test this theory on John Tanner's Hilman candidate !

 

Charlie

 

Edited 29 December , 2017 by charlie962

[charlie962]

3 hours ago, johntanner said:

1935 L/Cpl Hillman (Manchester Regt) probable and known survivors from Reservists.

Thanks for that.

 

His service record survives. b. Southsea 1888 he attested 1906 in Lancs Fusiliers, Trf'd to Hussars then 1st Manchesters 1910 and was trfd to Reserve 1912 with permission to live in India. Mobilized Aug 1914 in the 1st Manchesters he was attached to 1st OBLI on 28/7/15, joined the MEF 17/8/15.  Missing 26/5/16, subsequently PoW 26/5/16.

 

His MIC says 5b 25/8/15 ( same date as Shooter and Lacey) so on basis of my theory above he could be a Kut man. ICRC record R50756 says captured Kut 29/4/16.

 

So there is a difference of capture date between ICRC and Service record otherwise looks like a Kut man? Edit- there is another entry in his record noting him as 9675 OBLI and taken Kut 29/4/16.

 

Charlie

Edited 29 December , 2017 by charlie962

[johntanner]

The lists in the History of the 43rd were complied from contemporaneous notes kept by the surviving senior NCOs. They are not necessarily complete but I’ve not found inaccuracies around those who are included. 

[charlie962]

6 minutes ago, johntanner said:

but I’ve not found inaccuracies around those who are included. 

Hillman's service file is long and FMP is slow. I've just found this which clearly shows he was hospitalised inside Kut during the siege. So no doubt about it. How could I have doubted you?

 

                                                           

 

Have you anything on David Hughes ?

 

Charlie

[charlie2]

Charlie and John,

Even though I didn’t ask the question thanks for the valuble info.

 

Charlie