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Remembered Today:

trajan

Two Ottoman officers in the Vosges in May-June 1918

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trajan

Hantzbahn

 

hantzbahn_1.jpg

hantzbahn_2 (1).jpg

hantzbahn_3.jpg

seilbahnstation_rieth.jpg

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trajan

Lordonbahn

 

lordonbahn_2.jpg

lordonbahn_map.jpg

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trajan

 

Thalbahn map - this appears in the Kriegsbahnen im Elsass book

bigmap_3000px.jpg

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trajan

And the biggie, previuously unposted, the general map of the front... This measures about 1 x 1.5 m...

 

 

biggermap_3000px.jpg

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trajan

Now for those spare locomotive shots - they have been scanned at a higher resolution but look rather dark to me - Egbert. in particular, any comments? Remember, the middle one here is a postcard...

 

01.jpg

02.jpg

03.jpg

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trajan

If necessary, shall I try and get these re-done?

 

04.JPG

05.jpg

06.jpg

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trajan

07.jpg

08.JPG

09.jpg

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trajan

Last three of the loose photographs.

 

 

10.jpg

11.jpg

12.JPG

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trajan

Egbert, these new scans of the loose photographs do not seem to have 'performed' as well as the new scans from the album - let me know your opinion, please - and any others who wish to comment, yes, please do!

 

Julian

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trajan
Posted (edited)

And I see that the big one of the front lines and the railways performs better as a PDF...20180514133845742.pdf - NO IT DOES NOT!

 

Hmmm, works better on my computer than here

Edited by trajan
Correction

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Ottokarl

Dear all,

I have just joined the forum having been alerted to this great album by a French colleague. Let me quickly introduce myself. I live near Freiburg, within sight of the Vosges, and I have been working on a book about the Vosges in the First World War since 2012. One of the areas I am trying to cover is the railways etc. behind the front, hence my interest in this particular album. I think I can contribute some more information on this issue, e.g. the cable car station at Rieth still exists, as well as another one (of a different line) near ferme auberge Strohberg - I'll try to attach pictures.

Ok, it seems to work. The first two show the station at Rieth, from where that cable car continued to the Ilienkopf. The third picture shows the station below the summit of Petit Ballon, i.e. below the wooden station shown in the album.

11.05.2014 (23).JPG

11.05.2014 (24).JPG

Petit Ballon 6.04.2017 (4).JPG

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Ottokarl

As it is so easy - two more from above Wisembach, i.e. the end of one of the branches of the Lordonbahn. A "Förderbahn" continued in that direction from the Chaume de Lusse, and split into two branches. At the end of the southern one, an inclined hoist (Schrägaufzug) was built into the valley below, from where another one led to the positions below Hill 766 (which towers above Wisembach). There are other interesting remains there as well.

The first two pictures show the station at the end of the Förderbahn, n° 4 the route of the Schrägaufzug. N° 3 must be one of the things with which the rails were linked.

Vogesen - Nord 2014 - 1a - Wisembach-Lusse (13).JPG

Vogesen - Nord 2014 - 1a - Wisembach-Lusse (15).JPG

Vogesen - Nord 2014 - 1a - Wisembach-Lusse (118).JPG

Vogesen - Nord 2014 - 1a - Wisembach-Lusse (120).JPG

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Ottokarl

Having gone through this fascinating thread again, I think you might find answers to some of your questions here:

https://www.amazon.de/Kriegsbahnen-im-Oberelsass-Jürgen-Ehret/dp/3864686881/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542264457&sr=8-1&keywords=ehret+kriegsbahnen

Basically it is a compilation of pictures, maps and quotes from various sources.

The author has his own website: http://sundgaufront.j-ehret.com/

 

Regarding the location of the station at Rieth: it's on the road from Wasserbourg, on the highest point of the road, just before it leaves the forest and reaches Rieth. There is a crossroads with two forest roads going off on the right. If I remember correctly, it is on the left of these and can be spotted from the road - that is how I found it. Nearby there is a concrete shelter with a nice inscription:

11.05.2014 (27) - Ried.JPG

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GreyC

Hi,

nice of you to post these photos! Interesting comparison now and then.

GreyC

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egbert

Ottokarl , sehr schöne komplementäre Fotos. Nice addition.

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Ottokarl

I don't have any more pictures of actual remains of the Lordonbahn, although there are some. There are a couple of publications about it, in French - if you are interested, I can post the bibliographic data. What I can still contribute, though, is pictures showing that the Lordonbahn does live on in local memory, and one of the grave of a Russian soldier buried at Villé, who was possible used (as a POW) to work on the railway. There are more Russians buried there, as well as on quite a few other French cemeteries in the Vosges. Roumanian POWs were used for the same purpose, and died in the hundreds. A British soldier is buried at Villé as well - he died on November 9, 1918.

 

Thanvillé - Lordonbahn - 766 2013 (36).JPG

Thanvillé - Lordonbahn - 766 2013 (29).JPG

Villé 21.08.2018 (6).JPG

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Ottokarl

At least one of the pictures from the album - "Station Bönlesgrab" - was not taken during the visit of the Ottoman officers. I have seen it in a detailed report, apparently from 1916, on the construction of that particular cable car, which is preserved in the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in Freiburg. That cable car was built in two stages, the first one running from Thannweiler to Rothbrunnen. Then, in 1917 I think, Thannweiler was linked to the main line station at Rouffach, where there are still three ammunition bunkers. At the other end, the cable car was continued towards Landersbach, making it the longest cable car of WW I in the Vosges, some 17 / 18 km long.

Rouffach - 2.01.2016 (2).JPG

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trajan
On 15/11/2018 at 00:05, Ottokarl said:

Dear all,

I have just joined the forum having been alerted to this great album by a French colleague. ...

 

Hi Ottokarl,

 

Apologies for my late response and welcome to the Great War Forum! I have been busy of late but will now finally get around to looking at your other posts. Many, many thanks for showing an interest and for posting your photographs! I expect Edbert may have replied already as he has a great interest also in the topic, but if he will certainly do so soon! For now I'll scroll down through your other posts.

 

Julian 

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trajan
On 15/11/2018 at 00:16, Ottokarl said:

... N° 3 must be one of the things with which the rails were linked.

 

 

Vogesen - Nord 2014 - 1a - Wisembach-Lusse (118).JPG

Fishplate in English - what is it in German? Schienlenlasche / lasche?

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trajan
On 15/11/2018 at 09:56, Ottokarl said:

... Basically it is a compilation of pictures, maps and quotes from various sources. The author has his own website: http://sundgaufront.j-ehret.com/

 

I have the book but did not know of the web-site. Of course I have only glanced through the book - saving a full read to a period when I am free from family and teaching! - but I saw that yes, a combination piece (and expensive for what it is!). However, the author if I remember rightly, the book doesn't have much about my little group of Prussians, focussing instead on the longer period of Bavarian involvement - I guess the Prussian archives did not survive? Or should somebody check what has been coiming out of Russia recently?

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trajan
14 hours ago, Ottokarl said:

... There are a couple of publications about it, in French - if you are interested, I can post the bibliographic data. ... 

 

I would certainly like to see at some stage - if you have it - a copy of J.Joseph, "Sur les Traces du 'Tacot-La Lordonbahn, chemin de fer de campagne allemand de la guerre 1914", Soc. d'Histoire du val de Ville, 6 (1981), if you have this! Is it a book or an article in that journal? I have not been able as yet to get it through Inter-Library Loan...

 

On 15/11/2018 at 12:09, GreyC said:

Hi,

nice of you to post these photos! Interesting comparison now and then.

GreyC

 

On 15/11/2018 at 13:03, egbert said:

Ottokarl , sehr schöne komplementäre Fotos. Nice addition.

 

Hi Guys, good to "see" / "hear" you again! And yes, great photographs from Ottokarl!

 

Julian

 

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trajan
14 hours ago, Ottokarl said:

At least one of the pictures from the album - "Station Bönlesgrab" - was not taken during the visit of the Ottoman officers. I have seen it in a detailed report, apparently from 1916, on the construction of that particular cable car, which is preserved in the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in Freiburg. That cable car was built in two stages, the first one running from Thannweiler to Rothbrunnen. Then, in 1917 I think, Thannweiler was linked to the main line station at Rouffach, where there are still three ammunition bunkers. At the other end, the cable car was continued towards Landersbach, making it the longest cable car of WW I in the Vosges, some 17 / 18 km long.

Rouffach - 2.01.2016 (2).JPG

 

That's intersting to know about the station. Other photographs in the album also pre-date their visit - i.e., the train pushing through the snowdrifts. Lucky you, living close enough to the archives to be able to check through these... I had hoped to spend sometime at the archives in Munich in the summer to follow up on things but circumstances prevented my visit... Guess I should start planning for a visit there and to the remains before March 19th 2019 though the way things are going with Brexit!

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Ottokarl

Hi Julian,

 

thanks for your comments, and nice to hear that I am not only one here who is a teacher ;-)

 

I don't have J. Joseph's article (which appeared in a local journal), what I have somewhere is another article by him ("Le tacot: la 'Lordonbahn' dans le Val de Villé", from Dialogues Transvosgiens 1-2 1983-84, 7 pages), another artcile by "J.P." in Voie Etroite 2/85, and a brochure which you find here: https://www.guerre-en-vosges.com/presentatonde-lagev (28 pages).

 

Have you posted all pictures from the album? I am surprised a bit that there is no picture of the massive station below Petit Ballon, the one on the third of my pictures. My terraced house would easily fit into it, I think. The photo doesn't do it justice, really.

 

 

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Ottokarl

Regarding Prussian documents, yes, most of them were lost in WW II. What is left is now in the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in Freiburg. However, some documents of Armeeabteilung Gaede (later, after Gaede's death in 1916, called Armeeabteilung B ) survive in the Generallandesarchiv in Karlsruhe. There I have seen reports by the "Stabsoffizier der Pioniere der Armee-Abteilung Gaede" regarding the cable cars at Hartmannswillerkopf and Tête des Faux (Buchenkopf) - which you can scan when you are there, but not publish without their explicit consent. The pictures, however, have been digitalised and can be seen (and downloaded) on their website, or via https://www.archivportal-d.de/.

 

Between the Donon and Moussey, another Eisenbahnbaukompanie has left traces. And the documents of yet another one survive in Munich, in the Kriegsarchiv of the Bavarian Hauptstaatsarchiv. The monument of the Bavarian railway troops is rather close to the Kriegsarchiv, by the way.

 

4 Col de Prayé 26.07.2014a (5).JPG

Vogesen Nord 17.08.2016 (35).JPG

Vogesen Nord 17.08.2016 (36).JPG

20160824_165404.jpg

Edited by Ottokarl

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Ottokarl

Talking about the Donon - on the pass there are also the ruins of a combined railway / cable car station, though it is not clear if the cable car ever operated. It was built in automn 1918 ... At the point where the cable car turned towards the valley of Abreschwiller, there are more ruins, of a "Winkelstation".

Donon 3.10.2015 (14).JPG

Donon 3.10.2015 (16).JPG

Donon 3.10.2015 (8).JPG

Donon 3.10.2015 (2) Col d'Engin.JPG

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