Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Frank Norton AIF but KIA Flanders 1917 with RFA


GKW

Recommended Posts

My great uncle, Frank Norton, is buried at Artillery Wood Cemetery, Boeshinge, Belgium.  He was killed in action on 14 October 1917 whilst serving with 150 Brigade, Royal Field Artillery.

However, he first enlisted in the AIF on 29 August 1914 in Randswick, Sydney, NSW, as a Private in 1 Battalion.

On 5 April 1915 he proceeded to join the M.E.F. in Alexandria.  He was transferred to M.M.P. attached to 1 Infantry Brigade H.Q. Gallipoli on 13 May 1915 and allotted regimental No. 9.

His service record says that on 28 May 1915 he was “hit by bullet forehead and back of head” but the Medical Board attributed his disability to a “shell explosion”.  I presume that he suffered shrapnel wounds to the head.

I would appreciate help with the following:

1.     The meaning of M.M.P.

2.     Guidance on how to establish where 1 Infantry Brigade H.Q. was located on 28 May 1915 when he was injured.  Are there maps and/or war diaries that might help?

Many thanks.

Geoff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, GKW said:

My great uncle, Frank Norton, is buried at Artillery Wood Cemetery, Boeshinge, Belgium.  He was killed in action on 14 October 1917 whilst serving with 150 Brigade, Royal Field Artillery.

However, he first enlisted in the AIF on 29 August 1914 in Randswick, Sydney, NSW, as a Private in 1 Battalion.

On 5 April 1915 he proceeded to join the M.E.F. in Alexandria.  He was transferred to M.M.P. attached to 1 Infantry Brigade H.Q. Gallipoli on 13 May 1915 and allotted regimental No. 9.

His service record says that on 28 May 1915 he was “hit by bullet forehead and back of head” but the Medical Board attributed his disability to a “shell explosion”.  I presume that he suffered shrapnel wounds to the head.

I would appreciate help with the following:

1.     The meaning of M.M.P.

2.     Guidance on how to establish where 1 Infantry Brigade H.Q. was located on 28 May 1915 when he was injured.  Are there maps and/or war diaries that might help?

Many thanks.

Geoff

MMP is usually Military Mounded Police.

The brigade  war diary will tell you the location - take a  look at the National Archives.

 

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The war gratuity looks odd - £3 net for an acting bombardier doesn't sum up right.

He was discharged in England from the AIF on 18 March 16 as no longer fit.

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gentlemen,

 

Thank you all for your assistance it has been most helpful.  Since my post I have been busy reviewing the war diaries and maps amongst others.

 

All the best.

 

Geoff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 May located at 224 I which covers MacLauren's Hill north of the 400 Plateau (Lone Pine and Johnston;s Jolly).

 

Cheers

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mate,

 

Without check your relations file, many aussies transfered into the British Army during the war.

 

They went to be officers with British Regts including Artillery and other Corps of the Army.

 

Some I record

 

SIMPKIN    Norman Travers    279    Sgt    02 LHR    B Sqn WIA 7-8-15 neck at Quinns Post (G) disch to British Army prom 2/Lt 2a Res Bde RFA Preston UK later British War Mission to USA married Gladys Frazer in Eastbourne UK 1916 died TB at Fairmont Hosp San Francisco USA buried Colma (Cypress Lawn) Memorial Park USA father William helped Thomas Edison (British 2/Lt 1/3rd (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers) TF 2 years) 

 

SNOWBALL    John Hearn    491    Pte    9 LHR    C Sqn evac to hosp Malta (dysentry) 9-15 to hosp UK 9-15 (G) att ANZ BD Weymouth UK 12-15 disch to British Army prom 2/Lt 5c Res Bde RFA Colchester to 108 FAB RFA to Z/24 MTMB 24 Div WIA 9-16 near Delville Wood at Somme F&B died from wounds buried Guillemont Road Cemetery Guillemont France brothers Eric AASC KIA and Thomas 3 LHFA
 

STIRLING    Archibald Keith    344    Pte    03 LHR    B Sqn (G) disch to British Army prom 2/Lt 1A Res Bde RFA Newcastle UK

 

STOKES    Harry    174    Pte    6 LHR    A Sqn C Troop (967) evac to St Johns hosp Malta (dysentry) 8-15 to (King Georges) hosp London UK 9-15 (G) disch to British Army prom 2/Lt 1A Res Bde RFA Newcastle on Tyne 6-16 F&B
 

Finding details on what they did in British units has had me beat in many cases, as there records were mostly lost in WWII.

 

Cheers


S.B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  Steve Becker- You are in luck-   I had 2 casualties for my local Roll who had emigrated to Australia pre-war. Both were commissioned and threw up quirks in the records-  Leslie Rider Bumpus- killed as an artillery officer 1917- His British Army record seems to be in his Anzacs file-at least his medical sheet is-and it must have got there somehow. The other was mistakenly commissioned into the RFC in Egypt-rather than 1 Squadron, Australian Flying Corps-Jack Stanley Brasell, also killed 1917. He has a British long service officer file simply to sort out the administrative mess of being commissioned in the armed forces of the wrong country.

     Thus, I am acquainted with British officer files of commissioned Australians. I suspect most if not all of your men were British immigrants anyway.  But you are in luck-all 5 have surviving British officer long service files at The National Archives, Kew.  I make a shopping list of officer files I want to look at and am happy to look up others-I would rather run out of time after having a busy day than pull only the files I want and find they contain nothing. Officer files can be very variable.

    My next trip is either Thursday or Friday of next week (ie post-hangover), so if there is anything you particularly want looked up, then shout out. The 5 officer files from your list are:

 

2nd Lieutenant Norman Teavers SIMPKIN. Royal Field Artillery.

War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, Long Number Papers (numerical). Officers Services (including Civilian Dependants and Military Staff Appointments): Long Service Papers. 2nd Lieutenant Norman Teavers SIMPKIN. Royal Field Artillery.

 

Held by:

The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Date:

1914 - 1922

Reference:

WO 339/45436

Subjects:

Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Operations, battles and campaigns

 

 

2nd Lieutenant John Hearn SNOWBALL. Royal Field Artillery.

War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, Long Number Papers (numerical). Officers Services (including Civilian Dependants and Military Staff Appointments): Long Service Papers. 2nd Lieutenant John Hearn SNOWBALL. Royal Field Artillery.

 

Held by:

The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Date:

1914 - 1922

Reference:

WO 339/49961

Subjects:

Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Operations, battles and campaigns

 

 

2/Lieutenant Hugh Archibald STIRLING Royal Garrison Artillery.

War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, Long Number Papers (numerical). Officers Services (including Civilian Dependants and Military Staff Appointments): Long Service Papers. 2/Lieutenant Hugh Archibald STIRLING Royal Garrison Artillery.

 

Held by:

The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Date:

1914 - 1922

Reference:

WO 339/136628

Subjects:

Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Operations, battles and campaigns

 

 

Captain Harry STOKES Royal Field Artillery.

War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, Long Number Papers (numerical). Officers Services (including Civilian Dependants and Military Staff Appointments): Long Service Papers. Captain Harry STOKES Royal Field Artillery.

 

Held by:

The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Date:

1914 - 1922

Reference:

WO 339/52984

Subjects:

Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Operations, battles and campaigns

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mate,

 

Thank for the offer. Yes these men would be interesting to see what they did in the British Army and to confirm the known records for Snowball.

 

Here are more I was looking at with what appears to be interesting lives;

 

SWANN    Linton Hall    345    Sgt/Prov    9 LHR    B Sqn to Sgt 4-15 to T/SSM (no record?) evac to hosp (eye trouble or ague) 6-15 (G) to three months leave UK disch to British Army prom 2/Lt 2/1st Suffork Yeomanry to RASC later WWII LtCol Indian Army (British Tower Hamlets Volunteers TF 6 years)

 

SWANN    Reginald Noel    545    Pte    6 LHR    1R tos Sig RHQ 2-15 to T/Sig/Sgt 6-15 evac to hosp UK (influ) 9-15 (G) disch to British Army prom 2/Lt RFC prom Capt RAF post war Shanghai China later WWII Maj to LtCol IOAC in Bombay India

 

WATT    Alexander Leslie Burnie     623    Pte    03 LHR    1R tos A Sqn 2-15 WIA 20-8-15 minor at Quinns Post (G) disch to British Army prom 2/Lt (Prince Albert's) Somerset Light Infantry Regt (British ITC 3 years & RMC Sandhurst 6 months) 

 

WATT    Charles William    823    Pte    10 LHR    3R Tos possibly A Sqn? 4-15 reported with A Sqn when brother shot evac to (2 AGH) hosp 8-15 rtn MG Sect? 11-15 (G) qual 1st class MG course 11-16 att 42 Div Base depot 1-17 to cadet OCS Bn Bisley UK 3-17 disch to British Army prom 2/Lt 6-17 to 2Bn MGC 7-17 brother Keith 10 LHR KIA
 

Cheers

 

S.B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/14/2017 at 18:53, GKW said:

My great uncle, Frank Norton, is buried at Artillery Wood Cemetery, Boeshinge, Belgium.  He was killed in action on 14 October 1917 whilst serving with 150 Brigade, Royal Field Artillery.

However, he first enlisted in the AIF on 29 August 1914 in Randswick, Sydney, NSW, as a Private in 1 Battalion.

On 5 April 1915 he proceeded to join the M.E.F. in Alexandria.  He was transferred to M.M.P. attached to 1 Infantry Brigade H.Q. Gallipoli on 13 May 1915 and allotted regimental No. 9.

His service record says that on 28 May 1915 he was “hit by bullet forehead and back of head” but the Medical Board attributed his disability to a “shell explosion”.  I presume that he suffered shrapnel wounds to the head.

I would appreciate help with the following:

1.     The meaning of M.M.P.

2.     Guidance on how to establish where 1 Infantry Brigade H.Q. was located on 28 May 1915 when he was injured.  Are there maps and/or war diaries that might help?

Many thanks.

Geoff

Geoff,

 

Do you have his MMP Number? it should have a P prefix (if not, he was attached to the MMP rather than than transferred into it. Sadly the 1915 Corps Oder Books for the MMP/MFP have not survived. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...