11th Hussar Officers in the RFC

[Biggles]

Good day Gentlemen,

 

I'm putting together an RFC Observer's uniform with the rank of Second Lieutenant.  I have 11th Hussars collar badges, and was wondering if there were any RFC Observers originally from that Regiment. I'd like to base my uniform on a particular Officer.  If anyone knows a bunch of RFC Observers from that Regiment, I'd appreciate having their names and a few details.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Cheerio,

Caleb

[Guest]

Arkwright. Killed in training.

Edited 8 December , 2017 by Guest

[topgun1918]

Presumably a reference to Capt Frederic George Alleyne Arkwright, an observer in No 6 Reserve Aeroplane Squadron, who was killed, along with his pilot, 2nd Lt Alan Herbert Hardy, while flying on 14 October 1915.

 

More information at: 

Graeme

 

 

[Biggles]

Thank you Gentlemen.

 

Any others, or is that it?  None in combat?

 

Cheers,

Caleb

[nieuport11]

I also have Lt ARW Curtis and Lt LH Jefferson as Observers

 

Other 11th Hussars: PR Tankerville-Chamberlayne (Flying Officer), 8050 LCpl CB Spicer (Aerial Gunner with 57Sq), Lt CA Pelham (ADC), Lt WL Parker (Flying Officer 13Sq), LtCol HCH Hudson (AQMG), and LCpl J Dillon (killed 8.5.17)

[pjwmacro]

15 minutes ago, nieuport11 said:

 

 

 8050 LCpl CB Spicer (Aerial Gunner with 57Sq),

 

Nieuport

 

I`d be interested in any information you might have on LCpl Spicer.  My grandfather WC Venmore was also an observer with 57 Sqn.

 

Paul

[Biggles]

Thank you, Nieuport. 

Any more info on Lt. Curtis or Jefferson?  I could not find anything on Curtis and found just a tiny bit of info on Jefferson.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Cheers,

Caleb

[nieuport11]

Charles B Spicer shown as RFC no.87720 on Medal card and also 8050, which is no. on nominal rolls.

Probationary Aerial Gunner at June 1917 with 57Sq, qualified 12.7.17 and on 57Sq Nominal Roll up to at least February 1918

There is an AIR 76 record for a CB Spicer and I can't see any other officer with this name (AIR 76/478/5)

 

Your grandfather is also listed alongside him of course from Nov 17 with qualification date 6.1.18

 

The military record for Arthur Randolph Wormeley Curtis is in AIR 76/119/132

To be Flying Officer (Observer) from 28.4.17 with seniority from 3.2.17

Served with 35Sq from at least June 17 to Nov 17 as Observer

 

Record for Lionel Harry Jefferson is in AIR 76/144/59

To be Flying Officer (Observer) from 26.10.16 and to be seconded

No record of which sq he served with

On 1.4.18 made Staff Officer 3 at the Air Ministry

 

[Guest]

Arkwright was a descendant of Sir Richards Arkwright - a pioneer of cotton mill technology in Derbyshire. Commemorated on the Cromford War Memorial.

Edited 8 December , 2017 by Guest

[topgun1918]

The only combat-related casualty for an officer formerly with the 11th Hussars that I can identify is William Lefevre Oxley Parker, No 13 Sqn, killed in action on 31 October 1917 in RE8 A3827; unfortunately for Caleb, he was a pilot.

 

Graeme

 

[pjwmacro]

4 hours ago, nieuport11 said:

Charles B Spicer shown as RFC no.87720 on Medal card and also 8050, which is no. on nominal rolls.

Probationary Aerial Gunner at June 1917 with 57Sq, qualified 12.7.17 and on 57Sq Nominal Roll up to at least February 1918

There is an AIR 76 record for a CB Spicer and I can't see any other officer with this name (AIR 76/478/5)

 

Your grandfather is also listed alongside him of course from Nov 17 with qualification date 6.1.18

Nieuport

Many thanks for this and my apologies to Caleb for taking his thread off topic. Curious that my grandfather should have a qualification date of Jan 18 - or did they qualify after arrival at a Sqn? From 57 Sqn op records at Kew (this is where I had previously seen Spicer's name) I know my grandfather arrived with 57 Sqn in late Oct/early Nov 17 - and was flying on bombing missions by late Nov 17.

Regards Paul

[Biggles]

Thanks Gentlemen for your help.  I'll take another look at Curtis and Jefferson.

Paul, no worries at all.  I know how to exciting it is to find some information regarding a close relative!

 

Cheerio,

Caleb

[pjwmacro]

10 hours ago, nieuport11 said:

Charles B Spicer shown as RFC no.87720 on Medal card and also 8050, which is no. on nominal rolls.

Probationary Aerial Gunner at June 1917 with 57Sq, qualified 12.7.17 and on 57Sq Nominal Roll up to at least February 1918

There is an AIR 76 record for a CB Spicer and I can't see any other officer with this name (AIR 76/478/5)

 

 

 

Spicer was Charles Bernard Spicer. He was born 22 Sep 1896 at Fermon, Cork, enlisted in the Hussars (8050) 3 Jan 12, aged 15, serving in India, and transfered RFC 25 Jun 17. His RAF record shows he was recalled from Res in the 20s and that he was married to Elsie with a son Richard born 12 Nov 19 and address in Dewsbury. There is a 1940' death record for a Charles B Spicer in Dewsbury but I cannot definitely link this to Charles Bernard. The RAF record also states he was awarded the MM 28 Jan 1918 - but again I cannot find anything further at present.

Best Paul

[Biggles]

11 hours ago, nieuport11 said:

Charles B Spicer shown as RFC no.87720 on Medal card and also 8050, which is no. on nominal rolls.

Probationary Aerial Gunner at June 1917 with 57Sq, qualified 12.7.17 and on 57Sq Nominal Roll up to at least February 1918

There is an AIR 76 record for a CB Spicer and I can't see any other officer with this name (AIR 76/478/5)

 

Your grandfather is also listed alongside him of course from Nov 17 with qualification date 6.1.18

 

The military record for Arthur Randolph Wormeley Curtis is in AIR 76/119/132

To be Flying Officer (Observer) from 28.4.17 with seniority from 3.2.17

Served with 35Sq from at least June 17 to Nov 17 as Observer

 

Record for Lionel Harry Jefferson is in AIR 76/144/59

To be Flying Officer (Observer) from 26.10.16 and to be seconded

No record of which sq he served with

On 1.4.18 made Staff Officer 3 at the Air Ministry

 

Thanks Nieuport.

 

Just to let you know, Jefferson's records are AIR 76/255/59.  You have a H J Dyer's record number.

 

Cheers,

Caleb

[PRC]

19 minutes ago, pjwmacro said:

 

Spicer was Charles Bernard Spicer. He was born 22 Sep 1896 at Fermon, Cork, enlisted in the Hussars (8050) 3 Jan 12, aged 15, serving in India, and transfered RFC 25 Jun 17. His RAF record shows he was recalled from Res in the 20s and that he was married to Elsie with a son Richard born 12 Nov 19 and address in Dewsbury. There is a 1940' death record for a Charles B Spicer in Dewsbury but I cannot definitely link this to Charles Bernard. The RAF record also states he was awarded the MM 28 Jan 1918 - but again I cannot find anything further at present.

Best Paul

 

The London Gazette Supplement you want is this one

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30498/supplement/1

Your man is on page 1398 but unfortunately its just a long list of names with no further details, which is quite the norm. The MM citations no longer exist as far as I'm aware. There also doesn't appear to be anything in Flight Magazine. Best bet may be a local newspaper.

 

The marriage records are a bit odd, at least if the marriage took place in England and Wales. There is a marriage of a Charles Spicer, (no middle name) to an Elsie Lodge recorded in the Dewsbury District recorded in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1918 - if I remember rightly, one of the perks of winning the MM was 10 days home leave so maybe if this was your Charles he seized his chance! The only marriage of a Charles B Spicer in the period 1837 - 2005 in England and Wales, (some sources transcribe it as Charles E, but I think that's down to a worn character on the typeface) was recorded in the Worcester District in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1919.

 

Charles and Elsie did have a son Richard whose birth was recorded in the last quarter of 1919 in the Dewsbury District. There is also the birth of a Jack I Spicer, mothers maiden name Lodge, recorded in the Dewsbury District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1924.

 

Charles B and Beatrice also probably had two children as there are two registered in the 1920's in the Worcester District with mothers maiden name Vine..

 

Its probably worth checking the 1939 National Register, (available only on FindMyPast), if you're interested in following this through - also if he was successful in dropping legally the middle name then there could potentially be other matches for his death. There is no obvious Civil Probate for the man who died in the Dewsbury District in Q2 of 1940.

 

 

 

To get back on track with the original Thread, Paul Richard Tankerville Chamberlaye aka Paul Richard Tankerville-Chamberlayne was a Second Lieutenant when he transferred from the 11th Hussars into the Royal Flying Corps. The edition of Flight Magazine dated February 17th 1916 records his promotion from Second Lieutenant to Flying Officer, quoting the London Gazette of the 8th February.

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1916/1916 - 0133.html?search=Chamberlayne

 

In the edition of Flight Magazine dated May 11th 1916 he appears on the official War Ministry Casualty List as wounded. 

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1916/1916 - 0392.html?search=Chamberlayne

 

However can't at yet confirm whether he was a Pilot or Observer nor can I spot any RAF papers for him. His Army & RFC papers are held under reference WO 339/37298

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1091197

 

 Hope some of that helps,

Peter

[pjwmacro]

23 hours ago, PRC said:

he London Gazette Supplement you want is this one

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30498/supplement/1

Your man is on page 1398 but unfortunately its just a long list of names with no further details, which is quite the norm. The MM citations no longer exist as far as I'm aware. There also doesn't appear to be anything in Flight Magazine. Best bet may be a local newspaper.

Peter many thanks Paul