Same soldier? Uniform help?

[Sjack91]

Good morning, 

 

i have been chasing up a lead on ancestry for a man I have been doing research on Alexander Junor. I have also researched his brother John and I have a picture of him serving with the Royal engineers. Alexander was with the R.A.M.C serving at Gallipoli before serving in France. The Lady from ancestry has sent me two pictures who she is sure are the Junor brothers. However they seem to be of the same man. Any help identifying the uniform the soldier/ soldiers are wearing would be greatly appreciated.

 

regards

 

Stuart

 

Edited 4 December , 2017 by Sjack91

[Waddell]

Stuart,

 

Appears to be Royal Engineers cap badge for both of them.

 

Scott

[Sjack91]

Thank you Scott,

 

do you think the two pictures are both of the same man?

[Waddell]

Just my opinion Stuart, but they are very similar around the eyes, mouth and ears.

 

Scott 

[brianmorris547]

Stuart

One uniform has pleat pockets and rifle patches the other does not.

Brian

EDIT: The MRIC of 224 A Junor RAMC has a disembarkation date of 05/07/1915 in area 2b (Balkans) and shows MM. The only MM I could find for A Junor RAMC is in the LG 14/03/1918, 13222 p 999. This shows 316104 A Junor RAMC (Glasgow). This number does not appear on the Medal Rolls. 

John Junor RE is 4363 (TF) later 412797 with no 1914-15 Star. 

Edited 4 December , 2017 by brianmorris547
additional info

[MBrockway]

Comparison simplified by some cropping and straightening ...

 

Bear in mind that face tends to elongate when standing erect as the jaw tends to drop a half inch or more.  This also tends to turn the ends of the mouth downwards. 

 

When sitting the jaw tends to be pushed up so the teeth nearly touch.  More so in this case when he is quarter turned to face the camera - try turning your head 45° when sitting and then dropping your chin: very uncomfortable around the Adam's apple and the structures along the sides of the neck!

 

I'm not certain myself either way, but the man on the right seem to have longer ear tips that slope outwards more.

 

HTH

Mark

Edited 4 December , 2017 by MBrockway

[JOVE23]

I feel like the man on the right has a wider nose but that might just be flared nostrils or a trick of the light

[squirrel]

Looks like the same man to me - a little older and perhaps wiser in the second picture. And the chin strap is positioned the same in each photo - a touch of individuality?

[Sjack91]

I think it is the same man.

 

Unfortunately it is not Alexander Junor the man who I am after.

 

Thank you for getting back to me and helping me clear this one up

 

Regards

 

Stuart

[MBrockway]

On 04/12/2017 at 08:42, brianmorris547 said:

The MIC of 224 A Junor RAMC has a disembarkation date of 05/07/1915 in area 2b (Balkans) and shows MM.

 

The only MM I could find for A Junor RAMC is in the LG 14/03/1918, 13222 p 999. This shows 316104 A Junor RAMC (Glasgow).

 

This number does not appear on the Medal Rolls. 

 

 

According to the Mother Site here, in the RAMC TF re-numbering 316104 falls in the range allocated to 1st (Lowland) Field Ambulance of 52nd (Lowland) Division, which seems consistent with a lad from Glasgow.

[MBrockway]

On 04/12/2017 at 08:42, brianmorris547 said:

EDIT: The MIC of 224 A Junor RAMC has a disembarkation date of 05/07/1915 in area 2b (Balkans) and shows MM. The only MM I could find for A Junor RAMC is in the LG 14/03/1918, 13222 p 999. This shows 316104 A Junor RAMC (Glasgow). This number does not appear on the Medal Rolls. 

John Junor RE is 4363 (TF) later 412797 with no 1914-15 Star. 

 

224 Alex JUNOR's BWM & VM roll page on Ancestry is here

 

His 1914-15 Star roll page is here

 

As Brian states, only his original 224 Service Number is listed, not his new number post TF renumbering..

 

Ancestry also has 316104 Alex JUNOR in their MM Recipient list under "1/3(Highland)Fd Amb" (sic).  The Mother Site has 1st/3rd (Highland) FA as raised in Dundee and being part of 51st (Highland) Division. You may therefore need to hunt for him there as well as in 1st (Lowland) Field Ambulance of 52nd (Lowland) Division as suggested by his new TF service number and Glasgow origins (see post above).

 

His MM MIC is not on Ancestry, but is here at the National Archives.

 

His Military Medal listing in LG Issue 30573 (Supl), 12 Mar 1918, p.3237 here (MM sub-heading is on p.3226), just lists him as '316104 Pte. A. Junor, R.A.M.C. (Glasgow)'

 

 I couldn't locate Brian's ref of "LG 14/03/1918, 13222 p 999.", but we've obviously both found the same source document.

 

I did also find LG references to an Alexander JUNOR in the late war Volunteer Force.  Temp 2/Lt in the Northern Counties Highland Volunteer Regiment 1917, which seems to have become the 1st VB of the QOCH when the VTC was incorporated into the County line regiments.  Completely different to your Alex Junor, but included here to highlight a potentially distracting Red Herring in the gazette entries!

 

HTH

Mark

 

Edited 5 December , 2017 by MBrockway

[brianmorris547]

 

4 hours ago, MBrockway said:

 

 

 

 

 

 I couldn't locate Brian's ref of "LG 14/03/1918, 13222 p 999.", but we've obviously both found the same source document.

 

 

 

 

Mark

13222 p 999 was the Edinburgh Gazette, my mistake.

Brian

[MBrockway]

1 hour ago, brianmorris547 said:

 

Mark

13222 p 999 was the Edinburgh Gazette, my mistake.

Brian

No worries - thought I was going mad! 

[Loader]

Any chance they are twins but not identical twins?

[MBrockway]

If these photos show different men who are twins why do 'both' have RE cap badges rather than one having an RAMC cap badge and the other an RE badge?

 

Alex Junor, as far as the evidence shows, never served in the sappers.

 

I reckon both pics are Sapper John Junor and the difference in the upper ear comes after many months of wearing his Brodie cinched down tight!

 

Mark