Aurel Sercu Posted 1 December , 2017 Share Posted 1 December , 2017 (edited) A while ago I started a piece of research on the grave of an 'unknown" Royal Garrison Artillery man in Talana Farm Cemetery, Boezinge (near Ypres), wondering if - who knows - an ID was possible. Soon I found a name. And then three more 'candidates' ... Yesterday I finished the article. Time to move on to a new challenge. The destination of the article? Somewhere deep in the catacombs of my PC. Where it may remain. Until one day a crash may ... :-( So I wonder: perhaps these four names have come up in a GWF member's research? It could be useful if someone out there is aware of my own research? In other words, is anyone interested ? The article is in PDF, has 20 pages (10 pages text, and 10 pages photos and illustrations), and is 3 MB. If interested, just let me know in a PM or e-mail what your e-mail address it, and I'll be glad to send it. No strings attached. In other words, I wonder if someone is researching the following four men, one of who may be in Talana Farm Cemetery II. E. 11. Personally I think it is the first. Or maybe the second. But the third and the fourth artillery men cannot be ignored either ... 14414, Gunner Charles BOWEN (enlisted as CARROLL), RGA, 26th Trench Mortar Battery, died 6 July 1915, name on Menin Gate Memorial in Ypres; 49647, Gunner John LUMB, RGA, 30th Trench Mortar Battery, died 6 July 1915, name on Ploegsteert Memorial; 25767, Bombardier Charles PETHERAM, RFA, 22nd Trench Mortar Battery, died 6 July 1915, name on Menin Gate Memorial in Ypres; 3269, Gunner Thomas NERNEY, RGA, 22nd Trench Bty, died 6 July 1915, name on Le Touret Memorial (near Béthune, France) Aurel Edited 2 December , 2017 by Aurel Sercu Correcting typos in name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 1 December , 2017 Share Posted 1 December , 2017 You should contact the IN FROM THE COLD section on this forum. They can advise you & maybe help get him a named headstone & recognition after 100+ yrs. Your research deserves a successful conclusion if possible. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 1 December , 2017 Share Posted 1 December , 2017 I note that Petheram is recorded as 'presumed dead' - so his n body not recovered when killed; but you may have found this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 2 December , 2017 Share Posted 2 December , 2017 14 hours ago, Loader said: You should contact the IN FROM THE COLD section on this forum. They can advise you & maybe help get him a named headstone & recognition after 100+ yrs. Your research deserves a successful conclusion if possible. Keep us posted. I didn’t think that the In From the Cold Project was set up, to look at graves already set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 2 December , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2017 Loader, Battiscombe, Trenchrat, Thanks for your posting. I appreciate. "maybe help get him a named headstone "... To tell the truth, I never gave this a thought. I considered this twice or so, years ago, in different cases, and since then I know : it takes extremely substantial and written evidence to persuade CWGC. And this certainly is not possible here I think. After all, there are four 'candidates', and when I say that I think it is the first (Bowen / Carroll), this is only "intuition". Nothing further from substantial evidence I'm afraid. Another issue : the date. All of them officially died on 6 July 1915, but the headstone says 8 July 1915. All I can say is that I am 99 % (?) sure one of the four RGA men is in that grave ... "I note that Petheram is recorded as 'presumed dead'" The three other men are "Killed in Action" (on the MIC). Charles Petheram only has "dead". But the four of them are on a Memorial to the Missing (2 in Ypres, 1 in Ploegsteert, 1 in Le Touret). Where did you read "presumed dead"? Actually I am wondering now: what is the difference between (presumed) dead and kiA in this context. I mean : none of these four men have a named grave ... (Something I should see but do not ? Actually this piece of research sometimes makes me see things in a haze eventually. :-) ) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 2 December , 2017 Share Posted 2 December , 2017 The GRRF states 8th July, then there must be at least 1 soldier with that date of death. But the four, you name have the 6th July. It is possible that you could be correct in your assumption but you must prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the soldier is Soldier C and not A, B or D. if you look at the Recovering The Fallen on this forum and you will some other types of research that has been carried out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 2 December , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2017 (edited) Trenchrat, Yes, GRRF states 8th July 1915, but I found no man in RGA fallen (died) on 8 July 1915. (And not in RFA either, for one of the four men, Gnr. Thomas Nerney, though Trench (Mortar Battery), was RFA). But I do not have SDGW ... Perhaps someone with access to it can help?... Am I to conclude: No RGA/RFA man died on 8 July, except one, who was not identified, and registered nowhere ... True, GRRF states "Unknown British Soldier", but also Regiment RGA (same on headstone itself). I did not check if infantry men died on 8 July 1915 , remaining unknown, on the Boezinge battlefield ... (I'm sure there were.) But that would be no use... Indeed, no way to prove that it is A (or B or C or D). Or to 'disprove' that it is one of the other three ... Aurel Edited 2 December , 2017 by Aurel Sercu Typo and style or grammar error ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 2 December , 2017 Share Posted 2 December , 2017 the 'presumed dead'" notification was on the official 'Register of Soldiers Effects' record for the man's death - a handwritten note in the register [which more usually has 'kia' or 'dow']. That this signifies no direct evidence for his death suggests body was never recovered. Nerney does not appear in the register as far as I can see, but that may be an indexing problem. Nerney and Petheram seem likely to have been killed in same action; another man from the same battery: Gunner Albert Rimmer [49652] also passed through 10 CCS [Hazebrouck?] the 6th July with back contusions .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 2 December , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2017 Battiscombe, Yes, Soldiers' Effects ... I could have guessed. But having no access (no Ancestry subscription) ... (I know, A free Trial period ?...) And indeed Rimmer (49652) .... I see he is in Chocques Mil. Cem., died 16 Oct 1915, near Béthune ... By the way, still wondering : why is Bdr. Charles Petheram's name on a Missing Memorial near Béthune ? Not on the Menin Gate Memorial ... Just an error ? (Somehow related to the confusion and uncertainty about the way Trench Mortar Batteries were organized at the time ?) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted 26 July , 2018 Share Posted 26 July , 2018 would this be of some help 22tmb 6July 15.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 27 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2018 Hi 'Don' Thanks. And PM sent a couple of minutes ago. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted 4 May , 2020 Share Posted 4 May , 2020 Hi Aurel, Just retuning to this if I may, I have taking up more reseach about my GF, since lock down here in Brussels. I noticed in the 22 TMB,(which my GF was attached to) that on the 6th there were I gnr killed and 1 Corporal and four Gnrs wounded On the 7th 1 Bomadier killed and 1 Gnr wounded The other thing that I beleive is the Charles Petheram was not a RFA man but a RGA Man. His number was 25767 and my GF was 30315.Its only a huntch. I have read the diaries of both TMB 22 and 32 Tmb and i didnt come across any RFA other ranks both TMBs Kind Regards Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 4 May , 2020 Share Posted 4 May , 2020 all the surviving records show Petheram as RFA, and I think no reason to doubt that. There were definitely some other RFA men in 22nd TMB, I know, for example of a Cpl O'Halloran [60940] , Cpl Higgins [17472], Davis [27446] and Benson [32805], all RFA were in unit, the last 2 posted from 5th DAC, in May 1915 - Davis was gassed on 28thMay.. But the original gunners when 22nd TMB was formed [March/April 1915?] may well all have been RGA, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted 6 May , 2020 Share Posted 6 May , 2020 Thank you for your reply Battiscombe, I stand corrected. Kind regards Gery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 6 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 6 May , 2020 Don and Battiscombe, Fortunately I happened to see this. I almost missed it! Time to dive into the Unknown RGA man again ! (Not that I had forgotten, Of course not, but a few more men have passed in my research since 2017, asking for my attention. But his headstone, which I see ever time I am in Talana Farm Cem. still intrigues me of course. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted 8 May , 2020 Share Posted 8 May , 2020 Thank you Aurel, When this Covid 19 is over,I will be making trips up to the Salient and will visit Talana Farm Cem. My Grandfather wanted to visit graves of his comrades, but due to ill health he never did. He was attached to several Batteries accorrding to his Pension Record. 20,22,32,42 TMB. I am listing all the Men who died in those Batteries and will pay my respect on behalf of my GF. Next year I will consentrate on his Comrades from the "Q"Anti aircraft battery who are buried in several places futher south near Arras. I might just bump into when I am in Talana Farm. Regards Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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