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laughton

Lt. + 2nd Lt: King's Royal Rifle Corps, found together

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laughton

There is a Lieutenant and 2nd Lieutenant that were found together at 57c.N.13.a.4.4 which is just north of Gueudecourt (McMaster Map).

 

I thought it would be simple to find a PAIR that were lost on or about the same time from the same unit and in that area. That was not the case. Someone with more familiarity with the regiment may have some ideas?

 

I am thinking it has to be into October to be in that area and maybe the ranks were not reported correctly, or they are NOT from the same battalion. The problem is that the last Lieutenant that is unknown is on 18 September 1916. The list is for July to November 1916, inclusive.

 

surname forename initials date rank unit memorial reference to remains at 57c.N.13 WD Link
EGERTON-GREEN CHARLES SCROOP C S 01-07-16 Lieutenant 2nd Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL Lens area, Middle Alley and Carfax  
HICHENS JAMES BYRN J B 15-07-16 Lieutenant 16th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL High Wood 57c.S.4 Martinpuich 57c.M.32 link with C Coy
COLLINS CHARLES C 28-07-16 Lieutenant 1st Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Delville Wood and Longueval 57c.S.17  
FARMER   C G E 18-08-16 Lieutenant 7th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Delville Wood and Orchard Trench KIA - Bombing Officer
BUTLER The Hon. BRIAN DANVERS B D 18-08-16 Lieutenant 13th Bn. attd. 7th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Checked, he was a Lieutenant  
STORE ALBERT CASH A C 25-08-16 Lieutenant 5th Bn. attd. 16th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
CURWEN CECIL NIEL C N 15-09-16 Lieutenant 18th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
PERRY STEPHEN RALPH S R 18-09-16 Lieutenant 12th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
EDWARDES OWEN O 01-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 2nd Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL    
FREEMAN   F A 01-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 2nd Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL    
ROGERS ROBERT MURRAY R M 02-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 8th Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL    
PEARSON THOMAS RALEIGH T R 02-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 16th Bn. LOOS MEMORIAL    
DAVIS HENRY CHRISTOPHER H C 02-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 16th Bn. LOOS MEMORIAL    
DENNISS KENNETH GEORGE K G 15-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 16th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL killed after Lt. Hichens link with B Coy
ATKINSON RICHARD DERMOTT R D 16-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 16th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL   A Coy WIA MIA end of day
PURDON GEORGE HARDRESS G H 23-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 2nd Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
WALKER   F B 23-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 6th Bn. attd. 2nd Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
BAILEY ARTHUR YORKE A Y 27-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 5th Bn. attd. 1st Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL   KIA
PAUL   J W E 27-07-16 2nd Lieutenant 6th Bn. attd. 1st Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL   reported MIA then KIA
FARRAN CHARLES C 24-08-16 2nd Lieutenant 9th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
GOULD   P W 24-08-16 2nd Lieutenant 9th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
HUNTINGTON GEORGE WALDORF G W 24-08-16 2nd Lieutenant 6th Bn. attd. 8th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
LE MESURIER HAVILLAND H 24-08-16 2nd Lieutenant 9th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
WOOLMER STANLEY HERBERT FRANCE S H F 03-09-16 2nd Lieutenant 17th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
FORREST AUSTIN LANCELOT A L 03-09-16 2nd Lieutenant 11th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
HOCKEN STEPHEN LOTAN S L 03-09-16 2nd Lieutenant 10th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
GLEGG   W S 15-09-16 2nd Lieutenant 6th Bn. attd. 9th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
BENTON FRANK F 15-09-16 2nd Lieutenant 15th Bn. attd. 21st Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
NIVISON ROBERT BUTLER R B 15-09-16 2nd Lieutenant 21st Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Closer to remains at Gueudecourt 57c.N.35  
COOK PERCY MELLOWS P M 04-10-16 2nd Lieutenant 18th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL more likely in the area by that date  
RIDGWAY   W 07-10-16 2nd Lieutenant 18th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
CHRISTMAS EDWIN CECIL RUSSELL E C R 07-10-16 2nd Lieutenant 18th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
LAYCOCK   J H 07-10-16 2nd Lieutenant 2nd Bn. attd. 18th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
HONEY GEOFFREY HENRY Le SUEUR G H Le S 21-10-16 2nd Lieutenant 5th Bn. attd. 17th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
ROYDEN THOMAS UTTING T U 14-11-16 2nd Lieutenant 19th Bn. attd. 1st Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    
COYLE   L J 23-11-16 2nd Lieutenant 10th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL    

 

doc1977507.JPG

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MBrockway

Richard,

Another potential result for the 60th!  Thanks for finding this.

 

How have you determined the Jul-Nov 1916 time window?

 

Any reason why you have eliminated Mar-Apr 1918?

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

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Guest

Interested to understand how the dates have been narrowed. Cabaret Rouge was (I think) an area that was fought over in 1914-15 as well.... No idea if KRRC was involved but just curious to understand how the bracketing of dates evolves.  The report is dated 1925 I think... MG

Edited by Guest

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MBrockway

57C.N.13.a.4.4 was never in permanent Allied hands during the 1916 Somme battles, so if that time window is correct, we would be looking at two deaths of (probably) wounded KRRC officers in German hands.  The same scenario as we're pursuing with Capt Tate near Poelcapelle in the other topic: died of wounds at a German dressing station and buried there by the enemy.

 

Several candidate KRRC battalions were in action between FLERS and LIGNY in 1916 just to the S of this recovery location.  I'll give details separately.

 

If 1918 is a possibility, then 1/KRRC made a fighting withdrawal from the DESSART SWITCH near EQUANCOURT (on 22 Mar) to LE SARS (on 25 Mar).  I'm checking their route, but they must have passed close to GUEDECOURT.

 

Mark

 

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MBrockway
18 minutes ago, QGE said:

Cabaret Rouge was (I think) an area that was fought over in 1914-15 as well.... No idea if KRRC was involved

 

Martin,

If you mean the area around Cabaret-Rouge cemetery near SOUCHEZ, the other side of ARRAS, that's about 25 miles away from these bodies were recovered.  Plenty of involvement by the KRRC at LOOS and LA BASSEE in 1915, but I'd have to do some digging for battalions closer to SOUCHEZ and as it's so far from these two bodies, I'll park that for this topic.

 

Mark

 

 

 

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MBrockway

The KRRC battalion in action in 1916 CLOSEST to 57C.N.13.A.4.4 was 21/KRRC (Yeoman Rifles) in the GIRD TRENCH/BAYONET TRENCH attack 07-11 Oct 1916.

 

'C' Coy lead by Capt Sheardown established a strongpoint at 57C.N.13.c.3.2, some 300yds ahead of surrounding British troops. 

 

This is ~600yds from the spot where your two officers' bodies were recovered.

 

This strongpoint was connected up to GIRD TRENCH by a communication trench dug on the night 07/08 Oct.

 

'B' Coy failed to get to the location of their planned strongpoint but managed to establish themselves in a T trench nearby.

 

These forward positions were held until relieved on the night of 10/11 Oct.

 

A promising candidate battalion one would think, but 21/KRRC went into the line on 02 Oct with only 12 officers of all ranks - they had received no replacements since the very losses at Flers-Courcelette on 15 Sep.

 

Casualties killed/wounded from the GIRD RIDGE action were 6 officers, but none are recorded as Missing nor POW.

 

It would seem 21/KRRC can probably be ruled out.

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MBrockway
2 hours ago, MBrockway said:

If 1918 is a possibility, then 1/KRRC made a fighting withdrawal from the DESSART SWITCH near EQUANCOURT (on 22 Mar) to LE SARS (on 25 Mar).  I'm checking their route, but they must have passed close to GUEDECOURT.

 

 

During the Kaiserschlacht, 1/KRRC appear to have withdrawn in stages in a generally westward direction through this area from N of VILLERS AU FLOS (11:00hrs 24 Mar) back towards GUEDECOURT but staying to the N of the village (~17:00hrs 24 Mar), to DESTREMONT FARM (M.21.a SW of LE SARS), then moving back to EAUCOURT L'ABBAYE (dawn 25 Mar), then withdrawing again W of LE SARS.

 

They definitely appear to have passed very close to 57C.N.13.A.4.4

 

During this period (21-27 Mar 1918) the following officers are recorded as Missing ...

2/Lt H.D. WEST

2/Lt M.G. BLAND

2/Lt H.M. BARNETT (Wounded & Missing)

 

I'll do some digging tomorrow to see if there is more info available on (a) their last known positions; (b) whether they were POW; (c) if any of them had temp Lieutenant rank; and (d) more precise detail on 1/KRRC rearguard route.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

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laughton
On 29/11/2017 at 03:35, MBrockway said:

Richard,

Another potential result for the 60th!  Thanks for finding this.

 

How have you determined the Jul-Nov 1916 time window?

 

Any reason why you have eliminated Mar-Apr 1918?

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

There were no MISSING LIEUTENANTS so nothing to PAIR with the 2nd Lieutenants. I did however consider that at some stage we would have to make sure that none of the Captains were Lieutenants at the time. The CWGC has the habit of posting the rank UP a notch, such as if it was a Lieutenant that was a Temporary or Acting Captain. I wish they did not do that but they do!

 

I also ruled out the possible date of March 10, 1915 when there were Lieutenants/2nds Lieutenants on the same date, same battalion. They were on the Le Touret Memorial, not applicable here.

 

This is March 1 to April 30 1918.

 

surname forename initials death rank unit memorial
WILLANS WILLIAM ALAN JEUNE W A J 24-03-18 Captain 18th Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL
HUGHES   P 25-03-18 Captain 11th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
JACKMAN HAROLD H 21-03-18 Captain 7th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
O'RORKE DENNIS CLIFFORD D C 24-03-18 Captain 11th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
SCOTT   G E J 25-03-18 Captain 12th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
SINGLEHURST REGINALD R 21-03-18 Captain 24th Bn. attd. 9th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
KING FRANK MAXFIELD F M 22-03-18 Major   ARRAS MEMORIAL
FAIRLIE EDWARD E 30-03-18 Major 7th Bn. attd. 17th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
St. AUBYN MORICE JULIAN M J 22-03-18 Major 7th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
BLAND MALCOLM GORDON M G 23-03-18 Second Lieutenant 1st Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL
BULLIVANT ERIC CLAUDE E C 24-03-18 Second Lieutenant 18th Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL
WEST HAROLD DOUGLAS H D 25-03-18 Second Lieutenant Adjt. 1st Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL
LOFT PERCY TROTTER P T 24-03-18 Second Lieutenant 6th Bn. attd. 18th Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL
CAPERN HENRY JAMES (HAL) H J 22-03-18 Second Lieutenant 11th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
DOW JOHN J 25-03-18 Second Lieutenant 12th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
FIFIELD   P 22-03-18 Second Lieutenant 17th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
HODSON SYDNEY S 21-03-18 Second Lieutenant 5th Bn. attd. 9th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
HOPKINS   A M 28-03-18 Second Lieutenant 11th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
LAIRD   J D 25-03-18 Second Lieutenant 12th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
McKECHNIE   A 21-03-18 Second Lieutenant 9th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
McKIE   E 24-03-18 Second Lieutenant 11th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
NORRIS   E A 22-03-18 Second Lieutenant 21st Bn. attd. 17th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
RENDALL   G 24-03-18 Second Lieutenant 11th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
SHAW   J W 21-03-18 Second Lieutenant 7th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
TOOGOOD HARRY DUNCAN H D 21-03-18 Second Lieutenant 9th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
VINCENT FREDERICK CHARLES F C 21-03-18 Second Lieutenant 7th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
BAKER FRANK VINCENT F V 22-03-18 Second Lieutenant 21st Bn. attd. 7th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL

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MBrockway

Incidentally, 57C.N.13.A.4.4 , appears to lie adjacent to the German OAT LANE communication trench.

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MBrockway
1 hour ago, MBrockway said:

During this period (21-27 Mar 1918) the following officers are recorded as Missing ...

2/Lt H.D. WEST

2/Lt M.G. BLAND

2/Lt H.M. BARNETT (Wounded & Missing)

 

 

2/Lt H.M. BARNETT is listed as Died of Wounds whilst Prisoner of War in the 1918 KRRC Chronicle.  No date of death.

 

UPDATE:

Not one of our men.

 

2/Lt Henry ('Harry') Morton BARNET (correct spelling) was captured wounded near BUS on 24 Mar 1918, but made it all the way to POW Camp at OHRDRUF where he died of his wounds on 23 Apr 1918.  His original burial at Ohrdruf was concentrated in 1922-3 to NIEDERZWEHREN CEMETERY, KASSEL.

 

He had been commissioned from the ranks of the Black Watch.

 

Mark

 

Edited by MBrockway

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laughton

Ah yes, the "Kipling Effect" as well. I was thinking of the Captain who might have been listed as a Lieutenant but of course you are right that a 2nd Lieutenant may have been wearing Lieutenant stars. Would the CWGC not have known that when they entered it into the database?

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MBrockway
1 hour ago, MBrockway said:

During this period (21-27 Mar 1918) the following officers are recorded as Missing ...

2/Lt H.D. WEST

2/Lt M.G. BLAND

2/Lt H.M. BARNETT (Wounded & Missing)

 

 

2/Lt Malcolm Gordon BLAND.  Listed as Died 23 Mar 1918.

 

He has an info request card on ICRC listing as Missing 23.3.1918, but the Red Cross could not find him in the POW lists.

 

On 23 Mar 1/KRRC were still some miles to the east of our location.

 

Commissioned 2/Lt 16 Aug 1916.  No mention of acting or temporary ranks in the Mar 1918 Monthly Army List, but I'll check the London Gazette shortly.

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MBrockway
3 hours ago, MBrockway said:

During this period (21-27 Mar 1918) the following officers are recorded as Missing ...

2/Lt H.D. WEST

2/Lt M.G. BLAND

2/Lt H.M. BARNETT (Wounded & Missing)

 

 

2/Lt Harold D WEST.  Listed as Died 23 Mar 1918.

 

He has an ICRC info request card from his brother listing as Wounded and Missing 25 Mar 1918, but the Red Cross could not find him in the POW lists.

 

On 25 Mar, 1/KRRC started the day at EAUCOURT L'ABBAYE just to the west of our location and later withdrew the other side of LE SARS.

 

Commissioned 2/Lt 19 Dec 1916.  No mention of acting or temporary ranks in the Mar 1918 Monthly Army List, but I'll check the London Gazette shortly.

 

UPDATE: No sign of anything other than 2/Lt in the London Gazette.  Searching on "West" proved somewhat onerous.  Also there appears to be a 2/Lt Harry Douglas WEST in 9/KLR - the fun I have had unwinding these two from all the other results on 'West'!   Our 2/Lt Harold Douglas WEST, 1/KRRC, was commissioned into the KRRC via No 14 OCB and the Inns of Court OTC.

 

CWGC states Harold West was the battalion's Adjutant, though this is at odds with the Army List and the 1918 KRRC Chronicle, which has Lt., a/Capt., P.B. Frere.

 

In the war diary on the morning of 25 Mar at DESTREMONT FARM (57C.M.21.a), 'the Adjutant' (unnamed unfortunately) was sent to track down Brigade or Division to get orders for the battalion.  Meanwhile the battalion began to move to COURCELLETTE.  At 09:00hrs orders came from 99 Bde to turn back and take up a position just W of EAUCOURT L'ABBAYE.  o mention of whether it was 'the Adjutant' who brought these orders.

 

The battalion acted on the orders arriving outside EACOURT L'ABBAYE at 10:15hrs holding the position well until their right flank was turned and they were obliged to pull further back W of LE SARS.

 

These positions are approx.1.5 miles SW of the bodies' location S of LIGNY.

 

Certainly 25 Mar was a day of much movement and open warfare.

 

 

 

Edited by MBrockway

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MBrockway
3 hours ago, MBrockway said:

 

2/Lt Malcolm Gordon BLAND.  Listed as Died 23 Mar 1918.

 

He has an info request card on ICRC listing as Missing 23.3.1918, but the Red Cross could not find him in the POW lists.

 

On 23 Mar 1/KRRC were still some miles to the east of our location.

 

Commissioned 2/Lt 16 Aug 1916.  No mention of acting or temporary ranks in the Mar 1918 Monthly Army List, but I'll check the London Gazette shortly.

 

LG Issue 30593, 23 Mar 1918 (Suppl), p.3694 ...

 

War Office   23rd March, 1918

Undermentioned 2nd Lts. to be Lts. :-

K. R. Rif. C.

P. B. Frere (Adjt.).  4th Feb. 1918

M.G. Bland. 16th Feb 1918

 

So Malcolm Bland was in fact a full Lieutenant, effective 16 Feb 1918, and CWGC's 'Second Lieutenant' is wrong.  Ironic that he was gazetted on the date of his death. :poppy:

 

Bland was commissioned into the KRRC from the Royal Military College, Sandhurst.

 

I mentioned Frere under Harold West's entry above.  Frere was Acting Captain by the time of the Kaiserschlacht.

Edited by MBrockway

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Andrew Upton
32 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

 

LG Issue 30593, 23 Mar 1918 (Suppl), p.3694 ...

 

War Office   23rd March, 1918

Undermentioned 2nd Lts. to be Lts. :-

K. R. Rif. C.

P. B. Frere (Adjt.).  4th Feb. 1918

M.G. Bland. 16th Feb 1918

 

So Malcolm Bland was in fact a full Lieutenant, effective 16 Feb 1918, and CWGC's 'Second Lieutenant' is wrong.  Ironic that he was gazetted on the date of his death. :poppy:

 

Bland was commissioned into the KRRC from the Royal Military College, Sandhurst.

 

I mentioned Frere under Harold West's entry above.  Frere was Acting Captain by the time of the Kaiserschlacht.

 

For the purposes of this thread though it does mean the odds of him having actually known of his increase in rank and being badged accordingly at the time of his death are extremely slim to say the least...

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MBrockway
12 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

For the purposes of this thread though it does mean the odds of him having actually known of his increase in rank and being badged accordingly at the time of his death are extremely slim to say the least...

 

Interesting point Andrew.  Although the promotion was not gazetted until the day he went Missing, the effective date is 16 Feb - would he have been promoted in the field and the LG has taken a wee while to catch up?

 

One certainly sees the gazetting of temporary promotions lagging behind what has clearly happened in the Field.  As in these examples ...

 

Issue 30315, 28 Sep 1917 (Supplement), p.10144
Regular Forces, Promotion to Acting Major

5a004f3f02d52_Issue3031528Sep1917(Supplement)p.10144.jpg.f990ea868c6f31083cad64bbec53c069.jpg

 

Issue 30432, 14 Dec 1917 (Supplement), p.13214
Regular Forces, Promotion to Acting Major
5a004f3f86328_Issue3043214Dec1917(Supplement)p.13214.jpg.0cbbaf7b194548c78c3b1e21bcfe53b2.jpg

Do we think Capt Crofton here, put up a major's crown for these short periods as 2-i-c?  It could be quite important for adjacent units to know who was the unit's Battalion Major.

 

It could certainly explain why the CWGC has him still down as a 2/Lt though - impossible to promote a dead officer regardless of the effective date.

 

 

 

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laughton

Just back-checking that I did not miss any of the Lieutenants. I was surprised that there are no KRR Lieutenants on either the Pozieres or Cambrai memorials.

 

Checking on Bland was excellent and had the CWGC known, they would have listed him at that rank, they always do. If we add him back into the list then we would  have him as a Lieutenant, along with 2nd Lieutenant Hambro (possibly even West). However, they were to the south in Sector 57c.V.8 most of the time, getting closer at Bus in 57c.O.24, 11,000 yards to the west.

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Andrew Upton
16 hours ago, MBrockway said:

 

Interesting point Andrew.  Although the promotion was not gazetted until the day he went Missing, the effective date is 16 Feb - would he have been promoted in the field and the LG has taken a wee while to catch up?

 

The problem to my eyes though is that in the period even if a promotion was known to be in the works it was considered extremely bad form to put the new rank up before it had been officially gazetted. It is not impossible that Bland jumped the gun a little, or was aware of his promotion and put his new rank up on the date he died, but it just seems too tight to be likely.

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MBrockway

I've only been highlighting 1/KRRC in the Kaiserschlacht as, once it looked like the Yeoman Rifles 1916 were not in the frame, that is where I kicked this piece of work!

 

The chaotic open warfare of March 1918 seems to offer good scenarios for officers to get separated then too.

 

There are certainly likely to be lots more candidates from the 1916 campaigns, which I've barely started on as yet.

 

Many of the KRRC battalions were heavily in action In the Flers/Longueval/High Wood area from where wounded captured officers could conceivably end up in OAT LANE.

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David Drew

Stumbled on this by chance and have no experience in these matters. However my family always hoped for news of my great uncle 2nd Lieutenant George Rendall KRRC. He was commissioned from the ranks (Argyle &Sutherlands) 25/09/17. His body was never found but he was MIA 24/03/18 at Pozières.  Could the 2nd Lieutenant mentioned be him?  

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David Drew

Could 2nd Lieutenant be my missing great uncle George Rendall who was appointed to KRRC 25/09/17?  He was reported first missing then killed in action 24/03/18 at Poziéres.  His sister (my grandmother) and my own mother always hoped he might be found.

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David Drew

Could 2nd Lieutenant be my missing great uncle George Rendall who was appointed to KRRC 25/09/17?  He was reported first missing then killed in action 24/03/18 at Poziéres.  His sister (my grandmother) and my own mother always hoped he might be found.

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MBrockway
On 29/11/2017 at 18:37, Andrew Upton said:

 

The problem to my eyes though is that in the period even if a promotion was known to be in the works it was considered extremely bad form to put the new rank up before it had been officially gazetted. It is not impossible that Bland jumped the gun a little, or was aware of his promotion and put his new rank up on the date he died, but it just seems too tight to be likely.

 

 

Just been reading Capt Geoffrey Dugdale's account of Langemark.  Dugdale was in 6/KSLI and a Lt at the start of the battle.

 

In the aftermath of the battle he describes how ...

 

Quote

  The Colonel [Wood, OC 6/KSLI] sent for me the next day [17 Aug 1917].  He informed me that he had recommended me for the M.C., also that he had sent my name forward for promotion.  The latter was gazetted the next day. [18 Aug 1917]

"Langemarck" and "Cambrai", Chapter IX - Capt W.G. Dugdale (1932)

 

This promotion did not actually appear in the London Gazette until 09 Oct 1917 ...

286732408_DUGDALECaptWG-toCapt.jpg.5d70cfa81b5c4384a54fcce8a22794d8.jpg

 

 ... where it appears with the Effective Date 18 Aug 1917 - exactly in line with Dugdale's book.

 

It looks like officially gazetted would include a promotion in the field, rather than the publication date of the LG Issue which promulgated the promotion.

 

Mark

 

 

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MBrockway
8 hours ago, David Drew said:

Could 2nd Lieutenant be my missing great uncle George Rendall who was appointed to KRRC 25/09/17?  He was reported first missing then killed in action 24/03/18 at Poziéres.  His sister (my grandmother) and my own mother always hoped he might be found.

 

Although George RENDALL appears on the Memorial to the Missing at POZIERES, he was actually some distance away when he fell.  The Pozieres Memorial covers the whole of the wider Somme sector for the Fallen from the German 1918 Spring Offensive, as well as the Hundred Days.

 

George was originally in 10/KRRC (59th Brigade, 20th (Light) Division), but was transferred to 11/KRRC (also 59th Bde, 20th (Light) Division) on 06 Feb 1918 when the former battalion was disbanded.

 

11/KRRC's movements during the period of George's death were ...

 

20 Mar 1918 - moved to CHAULNES (in Reserve area).  Work parties on road mending.
21 Mar 1918 - moved by lorry to FORESTE. In evening 'A' Coy moved to GERMAINE and took up a defensive position there.
22 Mar 1918 -
  05:00hrs  'A' Coy withdrawn back to rest of Bn.
  14:00hrs  Bn. moves to near VAUX and takes up a battle position
            Bn. moves across to right flank via FORESTE to counter-attack if opportunity arose.
            'B' Coy left defending VAUX and were engaged during the afternoon.
  18:00hrs  Bn. withdrew to defensive positions in front of DOUILLY. 'B' Coy rejoined.
  Overnight Bn. withdrew further to positions protecting the bridgeheads on the SOMME CANAL at VOYENNES
23 Mar 1918 - remained at these positions at VOYENNES and were not engaged
24 Mar 1918 -
  Morning   Bn. still at VOYENNES.  Came under very heavy enemy artillery bombardment and took a large number of casualties.
  14:00hrs  Bn. HQ took a direct hit.  Lt-Col PRIAULX (CO) and most of the HQ personnel killed.
            One of the COY HQs also took a direct hit killing Capt. DC O'ROURKE, MC.
  Afternoon Enemy forced a passage across canal and attacked Bn. in the flank.

            Bn. fighting in houses of VOYENES

            Bn. withdrew to high ground behind VOYELLES, were forced back as far as QUIQUERY (on the LIBERMONT CANAL)

            Bn. regrouped under orders of 184 Brigade and began to prepare a defensive position

            on high ground NE of LANGUEVOISIN between the LANGUEVOISIN-VOYENNES ROAD and the RIVER D'IGNON.

            2/Scottish Rifles were on Left (North), 11/KRRC centre, 2nd/4th Royal Berks on right (S)

            2/Lt G. RENDALL reported as MISSING
            Bn. then received orders to withdraw to LANGUEVOISIN.
  Overnight Bn. established defence in depth facing N and E in front of LANGUEVOISIN.

25 Mar 1918 -
  Morning   German attack resumed & they captured NESLE on 11/KRRC's left & by-passed them.
  Afternoon Bn. nearly surrounded, but held on till dusk and then managed to extricate in good order.
  Evening   Bn. withdrew to CRESSY
26 Mar 1918 - Bn. ordered to LE QUESNEL and took up defensive positions

 

 

It seems likely that George was lost during the fighting withdrawal on 24 Mar 1918 somewhere between VOYENNES and LANGUEVOISIN.  This area is some 25 miles to the SE of POZIERES, so it is not likely that the remains under discussion in this topic will be those of George RENDALL.

 

Wherever he lies, he at least is not forgotten   :poppy:

 

43849_2114_0-00359.jpg.9181ff7045291bcfb4d3f8420e1dafd6.jpg

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

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David Drew

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.  Very disappointed obviously but most grateful to you for this information which I'll pass onto the wider family.

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