Dunkelblau Waffenrock Rescue Project

[4thGordons]

Way out of my comfort zone here.

I recently purchased this rather sorry looking Waffenrock with the hope of beginning to assemble a German uniform to go alongside my early/pre war French and British uniforms. I would have preferred a feldgrau uniform but they are all appear to be way out of my price range! 

 

Although I was aware this example had a number of issues (rough repairs etc)  I was attracted by the markings/date etc and it was (I hope) affordably priced and I hope will make a good starter display

Now I have it in my hands I have more questions than I have answers and I am not even sure any longer which unit it is marked to. Could anyone clarify?

 

 

 

 

As you can see it has passed through a theatrical costumier at some point but I believe it is an original jacket

Most of the buttons are present and of a matching maker (just one missing on the rear skirt, and three on the right cuff), several of the front button holes retain their leather reinforcing.

 

One cuff is red covered, one is black but it appears to have had red material stitched over it at some point so I am assuming they were both red.  While the buttons are absent on the uncovered cuff the holes/stitching where they were is apparent, as is the outline of the red backing board.and this looks like it might be a reasonably easy fix even for someone of my limited sewing skills.

The epaulettes are unmarked (although there appears to be traces of a design in yellow on one)

 

The collar is black (piped with red) and clearly has had a patch of some sort removed although I am not certain what sort of patch it might have been given the shape.

As it has passed through a theatrical costume store I am not certain which of the modifications/changes might have been done there.

 

So what I am really looking for is suggestions as to the most appropriate way to (sympathetically and as accurately as possible) complete this to a displayable standard! Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Chris

 

 

 

Edited 28 November , 2017 by 4thGordons

[trajan]

10 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

... Although I was aware this example had a number of issues (rough repairs etc)  I was attracted by the markings/date etc and it was (I hope) affordably priced and I hope will make a good starter display

Now I have it in my hands I have more questions than I have answers and I am not even sure any longer which unit it is marked to. Could anyone clarify?

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see it has passed through a theatrical costumier at some point but I believe it is an original jacket

 

The epaulettes are unmarked (although there appears to be traces of a design in yellow on one)

 

 

The collar is black (piped with red) and clearly has had a patch of some sort removed although I am not certain what sort of patch it might have been given the shape.

 

 

Can't help with restoration, but some off-the-cuff quickies on unit ID, etc. - but Andy and GreyC more on line for those things!

 

OK, so "BAX" is BekleidungsAmt X, which is X Armee-Korps (Hannover), 1913 year it was made.

 

JR 74  is 1. Hannoversches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.74! And "IIIB" for 3rd Bataillon... They had red Brandenburg cuffs, which is what you have, with - as I understand it with blue piping, but your example lacks this. 

 

One thing I can't check on right now is that there were Litzen on the collar of this one, and I don't know if the IR 74 had these - a quick look on the web suggests not....

 

If I am wrong, GreyC and Andy will correct - and add further details!

 

Julian

 

 

[P.B.]

Hi Chris

 

A really interesting tunic.  Most tunics of this type that survive are private purchase examples, but the lining and (very nice, and completely matching) stampings on your tunic clearly show it to be an issue piece   The collar would have originally been red and without litzen -to give you an idea of what it once looked like, he's a link to an example to the same regiment in the collection of Canadian collector Tony Schnurr;

 

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/tunics/dbt04.htm

 

I reckon that the collar, cuffs and shoulder straps were possibly modified during it's time with the theatrical costumers -many vintage uniforms survived by being included in the inventories of costume houses, but the flip-side was that over the years they were subject to numerous repairs and -in some cases- alterations.  Less likely is that it was modified to resemble an artillery waffenrock at the time -something I personally doubt.

 

A tunic with lots of character, thanks for sharing it.

 

All the best

 

Paul.

[4thGordons]

Paul/Julian

Thanks for the input/comments -- I had found my way to the kaiserbunker sight and it was partly the overwhelming amount of information on there that confused me! (ie contradictory shoulder boards and collar colours etc.

 

So the question is - what should be done here - should I leave the tunic as is and seek a more complete/accurate/original one for display or should I attempt to "restore" this one?

Although it was not my initial intention I think I am leaning towards the former as, while I might be able to do a reasonable job on the sleeve/cuff I think perhaps the collars and shoulder boards will be beyond my skill with a needle and thread (even supposing I can track down the materials).

 

ho hum....

Again many thanks -- and I will continue the hunt.

Chris

[P.B.]

Hi Chris

 

Personally I 'd be tempted to leave it as it is -as you've said, in practical terms it would take a fair bit of work (and luck, if you wanted original materials) to return it to anything resembling it's original condition.  Also, it's current state owes much to it's costume house ownership, so in some ways it's all part of the long and varied history of the piece.

 

Waffenrocks are fairly easy to find (much easier than issue feldgrau and way less expensive) especially if you're after a private purchase as opposed to an issue piece -European dealers like Helmut Weitze frequently have a selection on offer at variety of price points.

 

All of the above just my opinion of course -good luck with your collecting.

 

All the best

 

Paul.

[themonsstar]

Nice find Chris well done all the best with the research

 

Roy

[Martin Feledziak]

reminds me of this thread where someone had made a display out of the back of the tunic.

 

[trajan]

21 hours ago, P.B. said:

... The collar would have originally been red and without litzen -to give you an idea of what it once looked like, he's a link to an example to the same regiment in the collection of Canadian collector Tony Schnurr; ... http://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/tunics/dbt04.htm ... I reckon that the collar, cuffs and shoulder straps were possibly modified during it's time with the theatrical costumers -many vintage uniforms survived by being included in the inventories of costume houses, but the flip-side was that over the years they were subject to numerous repairs and -in some cases- alterations. 

 

A great link that - thanks! And pat myself on the back for spotting the missing blue piping on the cuffs and questioning the Litzen! 

 

20 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

... I had found my way to the kaiserbunker sight and it was partly the overwhelming amount of information on there that confused me! (ie contradictory shoulder boards and collar colours etc.

 

KBunker does have a lot of useful stuff and can be confusing, but also of help with the subjects of blue Waffenrocks is the 1899 Mortitz guide to these at: http://verlustlisten.blogspot.com.tr/2013/09/die-uniformen-der-deutschen-armee.html although that seems to be missing the picture guide for X Armee colours.

[4thGordons]

Whilst looking for either an alternative to this (oh who am I kidding -- an additional jacket!) I stumbled across these two which I thought would probably display quite well with even the first one. I believe these are Artillery and I believe they are period (although would appreciate expert insight) - they "feel" right (in terms of wear, stiffness of leather etc) although both are unmarked as far as I can see.

The peakless cap is significantly lighter blue than the peaked cap.

Chris