nedsir Posted 13 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2018 16 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: I can't find him among the 8 Francis McCanns on Ancestry. Is there a service number? No Dai I am hoping Craig will get back to me with more details on the record he has found as it is him as the address of 3 Croziers Row was his address in Belfast. He kindly put a link up to findmypast but I have no access to it sadly. Regards Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 14 November , 2018 Share Posted 14 November , 2018 Just to clarify - This record I mention is pre-war which I mentioned in the hope it might give some more information towards finding the later records. (I've just been quickly dropping in and out due to work and a full day court sitting) Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 14 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said: Just to clarify - This record I mention is pre-war which I mentioned in the hope it might give some more information towards finding the later records. (I've just been quickly dropping in and out due to work and a full day court sitting) Craig Craig Thank you for this. Apologies for any intrusion it's just at this stage any information is most welcome to get me to hopefully the next stage. As the amount of people with the same name as Francis in such a small location has been of enormous hindrance to my research. So your great discovery is a life line to the story. I have P.Med you on the situation. Regards Ed Edited 14 November , 2018 by nedsir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 14 November , 2018 Share Posted 14 November , 2018 Thanks Craig, Shame it's on FMP, nothing on Ancestry unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 15 November , 2018 Admin Share Posted 15 November , 2018 (edited) The record Craig found is a Militia Attestation for the Royal Irish Rifles, it shows he left the Militia after three years to join the Regular Army in 1897 Royal Irish Fusiliers (or on the record 'a I Fusiliers'). He would have been time served in August 1914. Often, in August 1914, time served men joined the Special Reserve of the Regiment in which they previously served. If he followed that course, and we can by no means be certain, there are a limited number of Battalions that would put him with the BEF in January 1916 i.e. 1st and 9th according to the LLT https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/princess-victorias-royal-irish-fusiliers/ Assuming for now he followed that course he would have joined at Armagh and his Regimental Number should have a 3/ or SR/prefix (though prefixes are often omitted) and I would expect it to be four digits. Ken Edited 15 November , 2018 by kenf48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 15 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2018 7 hours ago, kenf48 said: The record Craig found is a Militia Attestation for the Royal Irish Rifles, it shows he left the Militia after three years to join the Regular Army in 1897 Royal Irish Fusiliers (or on the record 'a I Fusiliers'). He would have been time served in August 1914. Often, in August 1914, time served men joined the Special Reserve of the Regiment in which they previously served. If he followed that course, and we can by no means be certain, there are a limited number of Battalions that would put him with the BEF in January 1916 i.e. 1st and 9th according to the LLT https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/princess-victorias-royal-irish-fusiliers/ Assuming for now he followed that course he would have joined at Armagh and his Regimental Number should have a 3/ or SR/prefix (though prefixes are often omitted) and I would expect it to be four digits. Ken Ken thank you for this reply. So that might point to when he was involved with the Boer War, as in my grandmothers home I as a young lad found 2 tins from Cadbury's one had Queen Victoria on it and the other I can't recall to be honest but they contained only the ribbons of his medals. I also cannot find him on the 1901 census for Ireland. Which might suggest he was away. Hopefully allthis help will turn something up. Regards Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 16 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2018 Following my last I looked up a number of Francis McCann's who served in the Royal Irish Fusiliers and have came across this MIC card it says Pte Francis McCann 5315 Medal Victory Roll 15/103B.2 Page 113 next under this British Ditto then 14 Star B4 (and looks like) 72. Serving 1-11-1918. Then Action Taken C 468 B 682 3450/4-1 Qualifying Date 31-10-1914. Would anyone be able to decipher the above? Regards Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 16 November , 2018 Share Posted 16 November , 2018 He has this and this The qualifying date is the date he entered a theatre of war. The code numbers just relate to where in the medal rolls his name can be found http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 16 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2018 7 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: He has this and this The qualifying date is the date he entered a theatre of war. The code numbers just relate to where in the medal rolls his name can be found http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/ Much obliged Dai I'm still trying to sift through all the Frances Mccann's Regards Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 16 November , 2018 Admin Share Posted 16 November , 2018 5315 also has two medical records on FMP admitted to CCS and 2 General Hospital GSW right hip on 25 and 26 May. He does not appear to have served in the RE as per your original post. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 22 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2018 On 16/11/2018 at 17:57, kenf48 said: 5315 also has two medical records on FMP admitted to CCS and 2 General Hospital GSW right hip on 25 and 26 May. He does not appear to have served in the RE as per your original post. Ken Ken again thank you. It now is for sure that the Francis Mccann who was in my original post who served in Connaught Rangers 7th/8th R.I.Fus and R.E is not the Francis I seek sadly the information I got was in error. But the Croziers Row Francis is without doubt him. As for 5315 Francis I still don't know if it is him. My next move is to contact the Glasgow Records Office with the details I have in the hope they can come up with something. But to be honest I'm not too hopeful at this remove. By the way would I be right in thinking that CCS stands for Central Clearing Station (where ever that was) and 2 General Hospital also 25th/26th May but what year? All the best Ed On 16/11/2018 at 17:57, kenf48 said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 22 November , 2018 Admin Share Posted 22 November , 2018 CCS = Casualty Clearing Station and evacuated from there to Hospital. The year was 1915 and he was serving with the 1st Battalion when wounded. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 23 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, kenf48 said: CCS = Casualty Clearing Station and evacuated from there to Hospital. The year was 1915 and he was serving with the 1st Battalion when wounded. Ken 2 General Hospital given as le havre I don't suppose there was a record of his address or personal details?. Just hoping that this is him, posting letter today to Army Records Office Glasgow. Fingers crossed. All the best Ken. Edited 23 November , 2018 by nedsir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 16 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2018 As a way of an update yesterday I got a reply from the army records office in Glasgow, unfortunately for me they couldn't find any record for my search. The reason being that their records only kick in after January 1921 which means my grandfather left the service before this date. I am pretty gutted with this news especially after getting his Militia service number found for me by Craig. At this stage I am about at a dead end. My only hope is that the Lance Corporal Francis McCann with the service number 5315 1st Royal Irish Fusiliers is him but confirming this is another story. But just to say thanks to all who have tried to help me with this. Back to a very empty drawing board for now. Regards to all. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 17 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2018 On 22/11/2018 at 23:41, kenf48 said: CCS = Casualty Clearing Station and evacuated from there to Hospital. The year was 1915 and he was serving with the 1st Battalion when wounded. Ken Hi Ken Something just dawned on in the the date of this Francis's wound being in May but was the first British engagement in August 1914? Or am I mistaken? Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 17 December , 2018 Admin Share Posted 17 December , 2018 1 hour ago, nedsir said: Hi Ken Something just dawned on in the the date of this Francis's wound being in May but was the first British engagement in August 1914? Or am I mistaken? Any ideas? As in the quoted post May 1915 Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 18 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2018 9 hours ago, kenf48 said: As in the quoted post May 1915 Ken Sorry Ken senior moment syndrome on my behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 19 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2018 By the way in passing can I just mention the Army Records Office in Glasgow for trying to find Francis's records for me and the fact they returned my money in full. Which I have donated to a local food bank so as to get something good to come out of this. Just to add that if anyone is looking for information on a relative from WW1 you can do no better than to join this site with all the great people on it who are dedicated to remembering all the brave men and women who went through so much at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 11 November , 2021 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2021 After many years of trying I have finally found my something relating grandfathers WW1 War service. The file I am posting as an attachment. I think it is some kind of pension request but not entirely sure to be honest. The only problem being I haven't a clue just what some of it means. Also it is very confusing in that if you look at the file it has a stamp marked DEAD and dates relating to both 1921 and 1926. The confusing part being he actually died in 1931. But it is without doubt him as his address is on the form that being 4 McDonnell St Belfast. What I am hoping is that someone would be kind enough to explain just what the figures and information on this form actually mean? With thanks in advance of any aid afforded. Regards Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 11 November , 2021 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2021 (edited) In addition here is his medal card. Any help with it as well please. Edited 18 September , 2023 by nedsir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntanner Posted 11 November , 2021 Share Posted 11 November , 2021 Medal roll itself confirms initial service in France with 2nd Bn R Irish Rifles, from 8/2/15. Also from the medal rolls looks like he transferred to the ASC on 20/3/18. He then re-enlisted in the RASC on 6/9/19 and was discharged 5/9/20. Dead on the pension cards relates to when the pension claim itself was deemed dead (ie not active) not the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 11 November , 2021 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2021 3 minutes ago, johntanner said: Medal roll itself confirms initial service in France with 2nd Bn R Irish Rifles, from 8/2/15. Also from the medal rolls looks like he transferred to the ASC on 20/3/18. He then re-enlisted in the RASC on 6/9/19 and was discharged 5/9/20. Dead on the pension cards relates to when the pension claim itself was deemed dead (ie not active) not the man. Many thanks john. i have just discovered another part of a form where his claim was rejected he was suffering from Malaria. Which he might have had from his previous service in both India and the Boer war. It might be a stretch to have picked it up in France. Would I be right in thinking he was in France from 1914/15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 11 November , 2021 Share Posted 11 November , 2021 47 minutes ago, nedsir said: I think it is some kind of pension request but not entirely sure to be honest. The only problem being I haven't a clue just what some of it means. It's an index card held by the Ministry of Pensions in respect of a pension claim that was made (being pre-computers they had lots of indexes). It was the Minstry's equivalent of the War Office's Medal Index Card (which was created as an index to the actual medal records). He recevied a pension of 8s per week claimed from 5 Nov 1920. The claim was made from Region 12 (northern ireland) but also at some point from Region 13 (southern ireland). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsir Posted 11 November , 2021 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2021 2 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: It's an index card held by the Ministry of Pensions in respect of a pension claim that was made (being pre-computers they had lots of indexes). It was the Minstry's equivalent of the War Office's Medal Index Card (which was created as an index to the actual medal records). He recevied a pension of 8s per week claimed from 5 Nov 1920. The claim was made from Region 12 (northern ireland) but also at some point from Region 13 (southern ireland). Craig Thanks for that Craig. Is there any indication as to when he left the army? I'm a bit confused as it seemed like he was rejected in this part of his claim See attachment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 11 November , 2021 Share Posted 11 November , 2021 This is the actual ledger for region 12's claim. There would be a ledger for each region and a case file (the files rarely survive). Most of the writing is simply adminstrative notes,https://www.fold3.com/image/644964564?terms=55687 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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