Replica tank not allowed in Lincoln

[jay dubaya]

11 hours ago, Magnumbellum said:

it is questionable whether a war machine has any place at all on a Remembrance Day parade

 

I totally agree with this, there is no need to remember the tools used to kill and maim on Remembrance Day, 

[robins2]

may by they were afraid of something like this:

[mandy hall]

From the Daily Mail online today

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5074977/Grandson-remembers-WW1-tank-commander-s-bravery.html

 

Mandy

[Sidearm]

Be assured that the programme does not claim (unlike the Mail/JCB) that tanks were first deployed at Cambrai.

 

Gwyn

[IPT]

Well i'm a fan of Guy Martin anyway, but i'm currently enjoying "Guy Martin's WW1 Tank".  Obviously i'm a bit of a thickie, but would be interested to learn what the experts, (and anyone else), made of it. 

 

 

Edited 19 November , 2017 by IPT

[Neil Mackenzie]

On 11/8/2017 at 09:56, QGE said:

Are you sure of this? My understanding (which might be misinformed) was that veterans used the early remembrance as a reunion and a bit of a knees up.

Definately the case.

 

Talking to an Old Boy of my school who was born in 1918 he mentioned that the adults attended Armistice Day dances on the evening of each 11 November.

 

Neil

[Neil Mackenzie]

On 11/12/2017 at 21:43, mandy hall said:

From the Daily Mail online today

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5074977/Grandson-remembers-WW1-tank-commander-s-bravery.html

 

Mandy

In typical Daily Mail fashion they manage to spell Philippe's name incorrectly even though checking it with a quick Google search would have taken about 2 seconds!

[ss002d6252]

The channel 4 show was excellent, one of the best I've seen in a while.

Craig

[rolt968]

22 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

The channel 4 show was excellent, one of the best I've seen in a while.

Craig

I agree, its was very good. Well worth watching.

I hate to ask though; did we ever actually see the replica tank turn a corner?

RM

Edited 20 November , 2017 by rolt968

[ss002d6252]

11 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

I agree, its was very good. Well worth watching.

I hate to ask though; did we ever actually see the replica tank turn a corner?

RM

I don't think we did.

Craig

[rolt968]

1 minute ago, ss002d6252 said:

I don't think we did.

Craig

Thanks Craig!

I didn't think we did, but I was interrupted and wasn't watching so closely at the end.

RM

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, rolt968 said:

 

I didn't think we did, but I was interrupted and wasn't watching so closely at the end.

 

Same here !

I can't blame them if they didn't want to test the bearings again at the last minute.

Craig

[Guest]

A Curate's Egg. I watched the programme today. Twice. Just to make sure I had not mis-heard it. I was left wondering who actually built the tank and who owns it. I am a big fan of Guy Martin but I can't help feeling he was simply a hired 'Media Face' bolted on to the very noble task of a Great War Tank build. I was struggling to see his input. What did he actually do? JCB's rather sublime technology, the German obsessional model maker's rather brilliant mapping, and some Norfolk tank collector's rather significant contributions appear to have been subordinated to Media positioning of the permanently 'amazed' Guy Martin as the alleged builder. 

 

The project is fascinating. It celebrates everything that was and remains good about British engineering. Slightly at a loss why Riccardo were not mentioned or involved. 

 

The mawkish ending was disappointing and the programme was padded out by too many minutes of the rather naive Guy Martin being  really really reall really really (sic) amazed by simple things like modern British tanks and some rather basic technology like CGI and virtual reality headsets.his amazement was at times rather child-like and rather unconvincing.  Odd for someone with alleged knowledge. I can't help think the media scriptwriters were dictating the tempo and Guy Martin was effectively reduced to a "man of the people" presenter directed and scripted to replicate the imagined thoughts of an imagined target audience. Wow! Etc at nauseam. 

 

The truly interesting aspect was the modern German modeller "none off ze drawings very accurate enough, so I started von scratch" (or words to zat effect) and transpositioning into CAD by JCB. Utterly brilliant. The precision laser cutting etc. Reduced to about 1% of the programme. It would have been interested to see comparisons between 1915 production and manufacturing technology with that of today. At one stage one of the engineers alluded to that fact that the Great War period manufacturing techniques were absolutely cutting edge. It was about to get interesting. Alas. We hear no more. That part should have taken up the bulk of the programme as it pretended to be about the engineering but sadly, like most of the Great War nonsense produced by the media these past years it descended into over-sentimental remembrance. The endless use of rather poor CGI of Cambrai was equally frustrating. 

 

There was potential here for a truly superb documentary on cutting edge technology in 1915 being replicated by brilliant British technical expertise in 2017 and  how this 1915 technology changed everything. Instead, this potentially cracking story was subordinated to a man with bad facial hair being oooterly ammaazed by simple stooff with bizarre interludes about Maconochie rations (which incidentally he mis pronounces as Mack-o-nokky). 

 

A brilliant project whose story was let down by poor production. It could easily have been half an hour shorter. A tragic miss fiurther soured by the post 'Linoln' spat. After all the hype it was disappointing. Five out of ten at most. A crying shame.it is still available on catch up for another 28 days. "The making of" Guy Martin's WWI Tank would be a far more interesting programme.  MG

 

edit. The question of how appropriate it is to have weapons of war parading at a remembrance parade is interesting. One I hadn't ever thought about. On reflection it seems slightly awkward. No one would ever think trundling gas cylinders along a parade would be appropriate, so why a tank? An odd idea. 

Edited 21 November , 2017 by Guest

[petwes]

I caught part of the programme last night and found the engineering aspects covered the most interesting.  I am not sure what to make of Mr Martin's presentational style but I understand he is very popular with the Yoof.  Perhaps he would be better sticking to cookery though :-)

More seriously I was intrigued by the catastrophic bearing failure that occurred.  As far as I could see they were using a modern ball bearing.  Would these have been used on the original design or would they have been white metal bearings?

Early tanks apparently suffered many mechanical failures;  if this tank was an exact replica of the original design did they encounter a common failure problem?

 

Peter

Edited 21 November , 2017 by petwes

[Stoppage Drill]

8 hours ago, QGE said:

No one would ever think trundling gas cylinders along a parade would be appropriate, 

 

It'd play well in Pyongyang, I fancy.

[Frank_East]

Lincolnshire Police response to the issue......looks as if the decision not to allow the tank to parade was taken by the Lincoln Safety Advisory Group.,Lincolnshire police being a member of the group.

 

A regards driving a tank up the High Street,it would not get very far as the whole of the top end of town from just above the railway crossing is pedestrianised and normally has a high density of shoppers especially at weekends and such like.Taking the tank up the lower end of the  Hight Street,terminating before the pedestrian area would involve crossing the railway which I would think would have drawn objections from the railway company....as it is, the crossing has always attracted adverse comments from shoppers, frequently interrupting the free flow of people on the High Street.

 

I thought the idea was to drive the tank along Tritton Way towards the Tank Memorial on the roundabout which is situated south of the Brayford but according to the news item.not

 

http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/under-fire-lincolnshire-police-hit-803818

[Gareth Davies]

I have spent my entire adult life in and around tanks.  They don't mix with crowds/pedestrians, they damage roads. The decision was entirely sensible. 

[IPT]

Who can forget when Wolfie liberated a Scorpion with predictable results?  A cautionary tale.

 

[Frank_East]

Taking the Tank to the War Memorial certainly would have meant navigating the pedestrian area which would have not done without damage to the quality surface.  

 

The Tank would have to turn round at the War Memorial...just beyond the War Memorial is the medieval  High Bridge which strides the Witham. 

[ss002d6252]

Quote

I am a big fan of Guy Martin but I can't help feeling he was simply a hired 'Media Face' bolted on to the very noble task of a Great War Tank build. I was struggling to see his input. What did he actually do? 

He welded a couple of rivets.

He's the 'modern face' of engineering shows, in the way that a few years ago they had Lt Col Strawbridge doing some. Guy Martin is a good presented but he's at his best when he's more hands on. The program was excellent but I agree that they missed some good points where they could of pushed the story a bit more - the 'discussion' about the original production methods was something I was expecting at the time time but it ended as quickly as it started.
 

Quote

The Tank would have to turn round at the War Memorial...just beyond the War Memorial is the medieval  High Bridge which strides the Witham. 

Was it even capable of doing so , we never really found out.

Craig

[MikeyH]

5 hours ago, petwes said:

I caught part of the programme last night and found the engineering aspects covered the most interesting.  I am not sure what to make of Mr Martin's presentational style but I understand he is very popular with the Yoof.  Perhaps he would be better sticking to cookery though :-)

More seriously I was intrigued by the catastrophic bearing failure that occurred.  As far as I could see they were using a modern ball bearing.  Would these have been used on the original design or would they have been white metal bearings?

Early tanks apparently suffered many mechanical failures;  if this tank was an exact replica of the original design did they encounter a common failure problem?

 

Peter

 

Did not see the programme and seem unable to view any Channel 4 content on 'catch up'.  The 'cookery Martin' is a different person (James).  Guy is rightly famed for motorcycle racing, he has survived some amazing 'spills'.

What bearing failed?  Ball bearings were in universal use at that time, in gearboxes, road wheels and a myriad of other uses.  White metal was mainly confined to the little and big ends of connecting rods and main crankshaft bearings in internal combustion engines.

 

Mike.

Edited 21 November , 2017 by MikeyH

[ss002d6252]

 

Quote

What bearing failed?  Ball bearings were in universal use at that time, in gearboxes, road wheels and a myriad of other uses.  White metal was mainly confined to the little and big ends of connecting rods and main crankshaft bearings in internal combustion engines.

 

It was the bearing in the drive system for the tracks - when they tried to turn the tank it exploded under the strain and sent fragments along the inside of the track - surprisingly no additional damage was done.

Craig

[MikeyH]

Thanks Craig.

 

Mike.

 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

He welded a couple of rivets.

He's the 'modern face' of engineering shows, in the way that a few years ago they had Lt Col Strawbridge doing some. Guy Martin is a good presented but he's at his best when he's more hands on. The program was excellent but I agree that they missed some good points where they could of pushed the story a bit more - the 'discussion' about the original production methods was something I was expecting at the time time but it ended as quickly as it started.
 

Was it even capable of doing so , we never really found out.

Craig

 

Dare I say even James May and Clarkson have made better documentaries. 

 

Other than a broken bearing, the programme provided no idea of what the engineering challenges were: strength/weigh ratios, required horsepower, efficiency of the available petrol engines, the technical challenges of a tracked vehicle etc. Knowing that such a high proportion had mechanical failures it would have been interesting to explore the most common failures and whether the new build faced similar failures. For example if a modern bearing failed with its better metallurgy, was this happening on the originals? etc...From an engineering standpoint, the failure on the first trial suggests under-design despite all the high technology of JCB etc... The new tank was notably heavier than the original, so the stresses and strains on the moving parts would have been different. 

 

Edited 21 November , 2017 by Guest

[ss002d6252]

Quote

Dare I say even James May and Clarkson have made better documentaries. 

I shall not respond with what I think of them as I don't want banned.

Certainly the engineering side was unexplored and more could have been done. I did wonder if the entire show was produced expecting the 'grand parade' and the existing production was not re-cut when that went pear-shaped, the way it was made would certainly fit that.

Craig