ICRC records of British dead

[Ancre1917]

Whilst carrying out some research on the 5th and 2nd/6th North Staffordshire Regiment during the German spring offensive 1918, I came across some pages on the ICRC site listing some 31 North Staffordshire soldiers buried by the Germans on the road from Ecoust to Croiselles.  They appear to have been exhumed by the IWGC from this site at 57C.2.a.8.6 and reburied at the Military Cemetery Ecoust St. Mein. It looks as if only 7 of them were identified, but all their names ranks and numbers were forwarded by the Germans to the ICRC.  The page numbers on the ICRC site are `PA 28292, 28293, and 289294.  There may be other ICRC references, but I haven't been able to track them down.  I suppose there wasn't enough evidence to identify them fully, so they are now UBS.  Lt. Col Thorne was amongst them and was only identified later by his badges of rank and a red diamond on his uniform. 

 

I've reposted this here to see if someone with knowledge on dealing with issues like this can give me advice on whether or not I should get in touch with CWGC.  Looking at the concentration records for Ecoust St. Mean, it looks as if they were mostly reburied there after the war.  Do the CWGC make note of evidence such as this, and might they add it to the database to show that these men are "believed to be buried in this cemetery"?  

 

The identified NSR men are

31109 Elsby John

16303 Kelly J

2012454 Moss R

203154 Perkins T

240872 Ross Sidney Watkiss

32210 Scott SH

Lt. Col Thorne TBH (I can't find his ICRC card; he was identified from his rank badges etc.)

241278 Webb Henry John

 

Any advice will be gratefully received

 

Richard

[Ancre1917]

Further to the above, there is a lieutenant named in the common grave made by the Germans in Ecoust -

 

Lt Harold Rymer Smith, who is now commemorated on the Arras memorial.  There is North Staffordshire officer buried in Ecoust St Men who, when he was exhumed, was found to have the initials HS on his drawers (see Burial report grave 26).  This officer is referred to in the ICRC report as being buried in the common grave north of Ecoust on the Croiselles road (see his  ICRC card and common grave list).  This would be at the point referred to on the Burial report at 57C.2.a.8.6

 

I can't find another officer killed at this time with these initials.  Is there a case that his grave might be recognised by CWGC on this evidence?

 

 

 

Richard

[LDT006]

Hello,

 

there is no doubt that Lt Harold Rymer Smith is buried at Ecoust St. Mein.

But the British documents do not clearly state that it was a North Staffordshire officer at grave 2B26, see GRRF document below.

CWGC will not accept this case based only on the German list, you will need more supporting documents.

Do you have the war diary? This should place them in the area where the remains were found. You might have a case if his name is listed as a casualty for those dates.

CWGC has a set of criteria for a report, they will not accept a simple document referring to this German list.

 

But this is a great find, 75 remains exhumed from a mass grave and a German list with 75 names.

I checked some of the service numbers and names and already found 8 of them on the Arras memorial.

 

Regards,

Luc.

 

 

[Ancre1917]

Thanks for that advice, Luc.  Did you pick up the other ICRC documents I referred to in my original post?  I omitted one: PA 28348, which list more names.  There may be others too, but I haven't found them yet.  As far as Lt. HR Smith is concerned, I can see now that he is not listed on the burial report as a North Staffordshire officer.  There is something rubbed out under the document you posted, but clearly the writer wanted it ignored as he wrote STET in the margin.  I'm not able to read it.  Can you? He is listed on the CWGC site as 11th battalion, which is strange.  He's not referred to in the 5 battalion's war diary, or their post war history.  But, a Lt. Smith was mentioned by Major Keating of 2/6 battalion in a post war report (he was a pow).  Smith was said to have died of wounds.  The 2/6 were actually in Ecoust St Mein, the place where these men were buried by the Germans and where Keating was captured.  But was he HR Smith? And where did he succumb to his wounds? So, not much to go one, I'm afraid. However, there's only one Lt H Smith recorded as being killed 20-24 March 1918 from NSR.  

 

I would be interested in getting any information you have on your finds, Luc, if you don't mind sharing it with me.  I can pm you my email address, if that would help.

 

Richard

 

[Ancre1917]

I've had a look through the CWGC records for officers named SMITH who died between 21 and 14 March 1918.  I found 16, but could have missed some.  Only four have a first name beginning with an H

 

Lt. Harold Rymer Smith North Staffordshire Regiment (see posts above);

Lt Norman Havelock Smith 20th London Regiment Arras memorial

2nd Lt Harold Andrew Smith 2nd/6th Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby) Regiment Arras memorial

Captain Hubert Leslie Smith 19th King's (Liverpool) Regiment Pozières memorial

 

As far as I can tell from tracking down the 20th battalion London Regiment and 2nd/6th battalion Sherwood Foresters, neither was anywhere near Ecoust St. Mein.  The nearest I can get them is over 10 miles away: the 141 Brigade were occupying the old German trenches between Etricourt and Ytres according to the 1922 history of the 47th Division, which is between 11 and 13 miles away; the 2nd/6th Sherwood Foresters were at Sailley-Saillisel in 57C.U.14, according to their war diary, which is about 12 miles away.

 

 I'm not able to find where the 19th King's (Liverpool) Regiment (89th Brigade, 30 Division) was on 24 March  when Capt. Smith died. Can anyone help on this?

 

Does this add anything that might convince the CWGC?

 

Richard

[laughton]

On 11/6/2017 at 05:28, Longton1971 said:

I'm not able to find where the 19th King's (Liverpool) Regiment (89th Brigade, 30 Division) was on 24 March  when Capt. Smith died. Can anyone help on this?

The war diary says near Moyencourt 66d.014.a for the 89th Brigade. The war diary and trench map coordinates agree (page 444 of 742).

 

[Guest]

24/3/1918 The Battalion was again ordered to withdraw and move to Roye Eglise during the evening arriving at 7.30 p.m.. During the operation Major C W Biggs MC and Lt J W Parker and about 60 other ranks became casualties.

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_2334_1-00000?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d60779%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=43112_2334_1-00409

 

Mike

[Ancre1917]

Thanks Richard.  I sent the evidence to the GWGC before Christmas and am awaiting their reply.

Richard

[AOK4]

I have sold a picture card showing the burials at Ecoust St. Mein: https://www.delcampe.net/nl/verzamelingen/item/313792867.html

 

I should have another copy of this card somewhere. I'll have a look and see whethere there are some more details to see.

 

Jan

[laughton]

Quote

The page numbers on the ICRC site are `PA 28292, 28293, and 289294

 

I missed that before!

 

28292

 

28293

 

28294

 

Do we have an update on this topic? It caught my interest as I would have never known that those documents were a burial list. That is where I have to rely on Luc!

 

I am curious, as to whether there are many such lists and what has happened to them vis-a-vis the CWGC work on naming the unknowns.

 

I randomly picked a name off PA 28293: E Marstone #32066 who is on the Arras Memorial. He served in the 22nd Northumberland Fusiliers, my grandfather in the 26th.

 

That was on the 3rd day of the German Offensive. If I understand you correctly, these lists tell us where these men were buried, so then we should be able to match that to cemeteries in the area that show the unknowns - or am I missing the linkage?

 

Has anyone taken all the names to see which ones are in known graves versus the unknown?

 

Fascinating!

 

I have not done the binders for the ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY but I will get that done ASAP. I looked at Jan's pictures

(this one) and immediately saw Ferguson #1662 who was identified. 

 

I would think as a minimum they need a "Special Memorial B" in that cemetery. Anyone working on this and/or what has the CWGC said to date?

 

 

[LDT006]

I made a list from those PA files a long time ago and checked with the CWGC records. There are some problems with it, errors made by the Germans or misidentification by the British, CWGC will almost certainly not accept this to alter their records (IMHO).

I will try to post it later today.

 

Those PA files state that the ID discs were sent in from a burial compagnie and that they died 21-24 March 1918 close to Ecoust. They were buried in a massgrave at the cemetery to the north of Ecoust at the road to Croisilles.

 

The erected crosses in the photo are from the existing cemetery created by the British in April 1917 and the Germans are digging a mass grave to bury the visible remains of 75 British soldiers.

 

Luc.

[laughton]

Thanks for the update Luc!

 

The other file mention by Richard was PA 28348

 

I have put the ZIP files for the GRRF, COG-BR and HD-SCHD here:

 

Ecoust Military Cemetery ZIP FIles

 

It appears the COG-BR files are for the 75 men found in the one large grave. Someone has probably already counted to see if there are 75 on the German list.

Edited 31 July , 2018 by laughton

[laughton]

I put the ICRC documents (the 4 pages of lists) in a folder here: Ecoust Military Cemetery Anything else I find I will put there as well. These are the direct links:

 

28292 (19 men)

 

28293 (20 men)

 

28294 (13 men and I assume the 3 others are something else - Plumb and Hopkinson were in Rumaucourt G.C. now in Vis-en-Artois COG-BR 2060913 )

 

28348 (20 men)

TOTAL (72 men)

 

Did anyone figure out who Sgt. A. Killcross really is? I see the lad above him is 2nd Corporal Teasdale #128143 of the Royal Engineers and named on the Arras Memorial.

 

I see there is a Serjeant of the North Staffordshire Regiment in Plot 2 Row B Grave 71 that is part of the group of 75.

 

COG-BR 1998251

 

GRRF 1998232

 

On the first of the ICRC lists, if I am following you on this, there is a Serjeant Ernest Pointon #200925 of the 2/6 North Staff. Rgt. He is listed on the Arras Memorial. I can see where the CWGC would enter the picture here as there are five (5) on the Arras Memorial from the same unit, the other 4 KIA 21 March 1918 rather than 24 March 1918 (CWGC Link). None of the other 4 are on the ICRC list.

 

LLT tells us the 2nd/6th "Prince of Wales (North Staffordshire Regiment)" is 176th Brigade, 59th (2nd North Midland) Division.

 

Their war diary starts here for that period (page 2 of 114).

 

For March 1918 (page 40 of 114).

 

On 19 March 1918 they are at Bullecourt 51b.U.27.b (McMaster 51b Arras) where they relieved the 2nd/5th Bn  Lincoln Regiment (page 42 of 114).

 

The Ecoust Military Cemetery is at 57c.C.2.a.8.6, (McMaster Map 57c Bapaume) the same reference where the COG-BR says the remains were recovered. Sectors 51b.U and 57c.C are bordering sectors. There is a cemetery marked on the period trench maps of 1918 but it appears to be at 57c.C.2.a.0.9. The sketch shows another cemetery in the Hogs back to the west of Ecoust

 

21 March 1918 was quite the day, as the great German barrage opened followed by an attack in large numbers. That was the day Lt. Col. Thorne was killed. Captain Cotes took over but he too was soon wounded, leaving the battalion in the hands of 2/Lt Murphy. They had moved from Bullecourt to Courcelles les Comte, then to Douchy on the 22nd, Bouzincourt (57d.W.7) on the 23rd, and Beaucourt (57d.K.12) on the 25th. Serjeant Pointon is marked as KIA on the 24th, so sometime during the march out of the area.

 

There is a sketch of the locations of the attacks on 21 March 1918 (page 44 of 114). A detailed narrative of actions on 21 March 1918 follows (page 45 of 114).

 

 

 

 

[charlie962]

41 minutes ago, laughton said:

Did anyone figure out who Sgt. A. Killcross really is?

The ICRC card for him is followed by another for Pte Alfred Killcross.

The SDGW shows that these are one and the same  ie   49296 Formerly 35173... Regiment: Lancashire Fusiliers, 1st Battalion Formerly Cheshire Regt.

 

CWGC have him here on Ploegsteert Memorial, ie no known grave ?

 

Edit- the various UK memorial sites don't seem to have this info ?

 

 

Charlie

Edited 31 July , 2018 by charlie962

[laughton]

My preliminary count is 25 0f 113 of the men of the 2nd/6th North Staffordshire Regiment on the ICRC list for the ARRAS MEMORIAL and 4 of 13 in cemeteries (now 7 there, see Luc's post that follows, but not on ICRC list). Cansdale #40980 and Morris #241560 were not on the initial CWGC search results for the Arras Memorial because the word "Bn." was missing after the "2nd/6th" (CWGC notified).

 

I am not sure I understand why the CWGC would not accept the German List sent to the ICRC as an indication that these men were buried just outside that cemetery, and later concentrated into the cemetery? Why not a "Special Memorial A" (Buried elsewhere in this cemetery) or a "Special Memorial B" (Believed to be buried in this cemetery)?

 

Quote

Ecoust-St. Mein was captured by the 8th and 9th Devons in a blizzard on 2 April 1917, lost on 21 March 1918, and retaken at the end of the following August by the 3rd Division. The military cemetery was begun in April 1917 and used by fighting units until March 1918. A number of burials were then made by the Germans and after the Armistice, further graves, almost all of the 2nd/6th North Staffords, were brought into Plot II, Row B from a position just outside the cemetery. Ecoust Military Cemetery contains 156 Commonwealth burials and commemorations of the First World War. Exactly half of the burials are unidentified but a special memorial commemorates one casualty who is known to be buried among them. The cemetery also contains 71 German burials, the majority of them unidentified.

 

CEMETERIES

surname	forename	death	death 2	rank	NSR	#	cemetery	grave	ICRC
RUSHTON	THOMAS	21-03-18		Lance Corporal	2nd/6th Bn.	'201673'	CANADIAN CEMETERY NO.2, NEUVILLE-ST. VAAST	Joint grave 22. A. 82-83.
LEESE	SAMUEL	24-03-18		Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'203549'	CROISILLES BRITISH CEMETERY	VI. E. 6.	X as SSR
ELSBY	JOHN	21-03-18		Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'31109'	ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	II. B. 38.
KELLY	J	21-03-18		Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'16303'	ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	II. B. 65.
MOSS	R	21-03-18	24-03-18	Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'202454'	ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	II. B. 66.	X
PERKINS	T	21-03-18	24-03-18	Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'203154'	ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	II. B. 73.	X
ROSS	SIDNEY WATKISS	21-03-18	24-03-18	Private	"C" Coy. 2nd/6th Bn.	'240872'	ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	II. B. 64.	X
SCOTT	S H	21-03-18		Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'32210'	ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	II. B. 35.
THORNE	THOMAS BEZLEY HOUGHTON	21-03-18		Lieutenant Colonel	2nd/6th Bn.		ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	II. B. 20.
WEBB	HENRY JOHN	21-03-18		Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'241278'	ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	II. B. 15.
LONG	LEWIS WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'202718'	H.A.C. CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	III. K. 11.
MITCHELL	GEORGE	21-03-18		Private	2nd/6th Bn.	'32488'	QUEANT ROAD CEMETERY, BUISSY	III. H. 36.
RIDGWAY	FREDERICK	21-03-18		Private	"C" Coy. 2nd/6th Bn.	'200463'	QUEANT ROAD CEMETERY, BUISSY	Noreuil German Cem.  Mem. 1.
TOTAL	13								4

 

ARRAS MEMORIAL

surname	forename	death	death 2	rank	secondary_regiment	NSR	#	ICRC
ABBOTTS	HARRY	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'242025'
ALMOND	WILLIE	21-03-18		Private	Lincolnshire Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'40856'
BAILEY	GEORGE	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'12046'
BARBER	ARCHIBALD	21-03-18		Private	Royal Army Medical Corps	2nd/6th Bn.	'47439'
BARNES	EDWIN JAMES	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'203088'
BARNES	ZENAS EDWARD	21-03-18		Private	Norfolk Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'41432'
BEARMAN	GEORGE WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202634'
BEER	WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'48648'
BELL	DAVIDSON	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'48360'
BERESFORD	THOMAS GEORGE	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241507'	X
BOAG	LEONARD GEORGE	21-03-18		Private	Suffolk Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'41414'	X
BOSLEY	WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202312'
BRIAN	BENJAMIN	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'201283'
BRIERLEY	FRED	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'40277'
BROWN	HORACE	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'260073'
BROWN	HORACE WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'242099'
BROWN	WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'22270'
BRYENTON	ISHMAEL	21-03-18		Lance Corporal		2nd/6th Bn.	'241518'
CANSDALE	HENRY CHARLES	21-03-18		Private	Bn. Missing on CWGC	2nd/6th Bn.	40980'
CARTLEDGE	ALFRED	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241622'
CASSELL	BEN	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'31888'	X as 31898
CAUSER	GEORGE	21-03-18		Serjeant		2nd/6th Bn.	'241655'
CHATTERTON	JAMES	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'12528'
CHATTERTON	WALTER THOMAS	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'203019'
CLACKETT	CHARLES WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private	Army Service Corps	2nd/6th Bn.	'50781'
CLARK	PERCY	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241920'
CLARKE	CHARLES FISHER	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'47895'
CORNWELL	ERIC HARVEY	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'203793'	X
COY	HARRY	21-03-18		Private	Army Service Corps	2nd/6th Bn.	'50780'
CROSS	GEORGE	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'40360'
CURTIS	ROBERT	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'48372'
DALRYMPLE	LAWRENCE RICHARD	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'242096'	X
DOBSON	SYKES	25-03-18	25-06-18	Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'31905'
DONNELLY	JOHN	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'38070'
DONNELLY	THOMAS	21-03-18		Private	Army Service Corps	2nd/6th Bn.	'50550'
DUMBLETON	LEWIS	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'39223'
DUROSE	ERNEST	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'201139'
ELDRIDGE	WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202102'
ELLIS	ARTHUR	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'242633'
FELLOWES	CYRIL WALTER	21-03-18		Second Lieutenant		2nd/6th Bn.
FRANCIS	SIDNEY	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'242070'
FREARSON	FREDERICK	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'40661'
GRATTAGE	CHARLES	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'12619'
GREEN	ARTHUR FAIRBROTHER	21-03-18		Second Lieutenant		2nd/6th Bn.
GRIFFIN	ERNEST	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241638'
GRIFFITHS	THOMAS	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'14436'
HARDY	HAROLD VICTOR	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241916'
HART	HARRY ROSSLYN	21-03-18		Private	Suffolk Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'41418'	X
HASSALL	WILLIAM HARRY	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'201952'
HAWKES	HAROLD	21-03-18		Lance Corporal		2nd/6th Bn.	'242044'	X
HILDITCH	ARTHUR EDWARD	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'201289'	X
HOLLAND	GEORGE WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'48666'
HOLLIS	JOSEPH MATHEW	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'201905'
HOWLE	WALTER	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'200943'
HUBBARD	JOHN THOMAS	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202024'
HURLEY	JOHN	24-03-18		Corporal		2nd/6th Bn.	'235038'
JONES	GEORGE	21-03-18		Lance Serjeant		2nd/6th Bn.	'241709'
KIRK	CHARLES ERNEST	21-03-18		Corporal		2nd/6th Bn.	'41421'
KIRKLAND	ARTHUR	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241377'
KITCHEN	WILLIAM RUPERT	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'203786'
LANGFORD	HARRY	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241394'
LANGRIDGE	GEORGE	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'41426'	X
LAWTON	FREDERICK THOMAS	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'201412'
LOVELOCK	WALTER CHARLES ERNEST	21-03-18		Private		"D" Coy., 2nd/6th Bn.	'200721'
LYONS	ROBERT GEORGE	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202754'	X
MACDONALD	ALEXANDER WILLIAM	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'37011'	X
MELLOR	JOHN WILLIAM	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241631'
MOORE	BERTIE ALLAN	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'41385'
MORETON	ERNEST WHITFIELD	21-03-18		Lance Corporal		2nd/6th Bn.	'241541'
MORRIS	JOHN THOMAS	21-03-18		Private	Bn. Missing on CWGC	2nd/6th Bn.	241560'	X
MORRISON	ALFRED	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'203122'	X
MURRELL	GEORGE	21-03-18		Serjeant		2nd/6th Bn.	'202082'
NAYLOR	WILLIAM	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'203123'	X
ORAM	RICHARD	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'48423'	X
POINTON	ERNEST	24-03-18		Serjeant		2nd/6th Bn	'200925'	X
PRICE	ARTHUR	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'48668'
PRICE	JAMES	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'27547'
PRINCE	FREDERICK	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'18060'
PUGH	MATTHEW	21-03-18		Private	Army Service Corps	2nd/6th Bn.	'48471'
READER	PERCIVAL JOHN	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'41403'	X
REID	DAVID	21-03-18		Private	Army Service Corps	2nd/6th Bn.	'48473'
ROGERS	ALBERT	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202268'	X
SECKER	FRANK	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'31913'
SEDDONS	EDWARD	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'12234'
SHULVER	FREDERICK HENRY	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'32471'
SIMONS	JOHN EDWARD	21-03-18		Private	Lincolnshire Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'40892'
SKELLAM	EDWIN	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'203264'
SLACK	FRANCIS EVLYN	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'240862'
SMITH	JOHN	21-03-18		Lance Corporal	Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)	2nd/6th Bn.	'23568'
SMITH	THOMAS	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'201941'
STANLEY	FREDERICK CHARLES	21-03-18		Serjeant	Cambridgeshire Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'260086'
STANWAY	FREDERICK	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'18555'
STENTON	ALBERT	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'48311'
STEVENSON	JAMES	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'41393'	X
STORR	FRANK	24-03-18		Private	Lincolnshire Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'260070'	X
SUTTON	ALBERT EDWARD	21-03-18		Corporal		2nd/6th Bn.	'240757'	X
TEMPLER	ALBERT	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202095'	X
THOMPSON	ARTHUR WILLIAM	21-03-18		Lance Corporal	Suffolk Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'41408'	X
THURSTON	JOHN JAMES	21-03-18		Private	Norfolk Regiment	2nd/6th Bn.	'41427'
TURNER	FRED	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241413'
VAUGHAN	CHARLES	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241140'
VAUGHAN	SIDNEY JUBILEE	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202580'
WADSWORTH	WILLIAM HENRY	24-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241930'	X
WALKER	JAMES THOMAS HARRY	21-03-18		Serjeant		2nd/6th Bn.	'240177'
WALKER	JOSEPH	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'200194'
WALKER	MAURICE JOHN	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'242261'
WATKINSON	CHARLES FREDERICK	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241991'
WELBOURN	THOMAS HODGSON	21-03-18		Lance Corporal		2nd/6th Bn.	'241602'
WILLIAMS	ROBERT	21-03-18		Lance Corporal		2nd/6th Bn.	'241923'	X
WITTON	LIONEL HAMER	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'202781'
WOODINGS	JOHN	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'241021'
WRIGHT	SAMUEL JESSE	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'203162'
YATES	JAMES	21-03-18		Private		2nd/6th Bn.	'201770'
TOTAL	113							25

Edited 31 July , 2018 by laughton
added 3 not on ICRC from Luc's list below

[LDT006]

This is the list of the 75 men buried there by the Germans. (@Richard you forgot PA28349 with the last 3 names)

Errors are marked in orange, ex: Gale and Leese were found at a different location. Westwick is listed 2 times with a different description.

Those who were identified are marked in green.

 

PA28292	STEVENSON, JAMES	41393	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	GALE, J W	37972		Queant CC 57c.D.1.d.3.6, now in Achiet le grand CCE
	BOAG, LEONARD GEORGE	41414	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	THOMPSON, ARTHUR WILLIAM	41408	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Lance Corporal
	WILLIAMS, ROBERT	241923	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Lance Corporal
	JONES, GEORGE ARTHUR	42309	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	LYONS, ROBERT GEORGE	202754	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	DALRYMPLE, LAWRENCE RICHARD	242096	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	HAWKES, HAROLD	242044	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Lance Corporal
	CASSELL, BEN	31888	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	NAYLOR, WILLIAM	203123	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	BACON, WILLIAM GEORGE	242252	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	BALL, ALBERT HENRY	51191	24/03/18	12th Bn. Suffolk Regiment	Private
	STORR, FRANK	260070	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	MORRISON, ALFRED	203122	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	ORAM, RICHARD	48423	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	BONNY, SYDNEY	59430	21/03/18	23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	BUTCHER, JAMES HARRY	41318	22/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	BRADFORD, HERBERT	128917	22/03/18	3rd Bn. Special Bde. Royal Engineers	Pioneer

 

PA28293	CADDICK, GEORGE	59072	21/03/18	23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	COLEMAN, ARTHUR VICTOR	42611	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	DIAMOND, ERNEST	49590	22/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	ELLIS, TOM	11931	22/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	DOBISON, GEORGE	22/1123	21/03/18	22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	DUMBLETON, LEWIS	39223	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	EBBS, GEORGE FREDERICK JAMES	28225	22/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	FERGUSSON, HAMILTON	56105	21/03/18	25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	FORWARD, HORACE FREDERICK	42634	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	HYND, WILLIAM	17364	21/03/18	34th Coy. Machine Gun Corps (Infantry)	Private
	HOLLAND, ALBERT EDWARD	49407	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	JONES, ALFRED JOHN	40569	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	LOVACK-LAND, WILLIAM	58509	24/03/18	59th Bn. Machine Gun Corps (Infantry)	Lance Corporal
	MACDONALD, ALEXANDER WILLIAM	37011	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	MARSTON, EDWARD	32066	24/03/18	22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	MILLAR, JOHN	19067	24/03/18	16th Bn. Royal Scots	Private
	MOSS, R	202454		ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN
	MOTTRAM, WILLIAM SIDNEY	42183	22/03/18	"A" Coy. 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	MUSTIN, ALBERT EDWARD	49946	22/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	NEVILLE, WILLIAM ARTHUR	48513	21/03/18	25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private

 

 

PA28294	NICHOLAS, FRITZ	56213	21/03/18	22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Lance Corporal
	ORFORD, ARTHUR FURZE	329306	21/03/18	11th Bn. Suffolk Regiment	Private
	RIMMINGTON, CECIL	29824	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	SMAILS, ARTHUR	22/324	21/03/18	23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	TAYLOR, WILLIAM	1224	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	THORNE, THOMAS BEZLEY HOUGHTON		21/03/18	ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN	Lieutenant Colonel
	TURNBULL, ALBERT HOTCHIN	31092	22/03/18	11th Bn. Suffolk Regiment	Private
	AUBREY, SYDNEY DOUGLAS	51516	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	WESTWICK, LH			AOC 12343 or 12345
	WESTWICK, LOUIS HENRY	59008	21/03/18	23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	WATSON, THOMAS CHRISTOPHER	39762	21/03/18	22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	LEESE, SAMUEL	203549	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	TEASDALE, THOMAS ARTHUR	128143	22/03/18	"J" Special Coy. Royal Engineers	2nd Corporal

 

 

PA28348	BERESFORD, THOMAS GEORGE	241507	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	POINTON, ERNEST	200925	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Serjeant
	ROGERS, ALBERT	202268	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	SMITH, HAROLD RYMER		21/03/18	11th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Lieutenant
	ROSS, SIDNEY WATKISS	240872		ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN
	HILDITCH, ARTHUR EDWARD	201289	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	TEMPLER, ALBERT	202095	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	WOODALL, ARTHUR	40161	21/03/18	6th/7th Bn. Royal Scots Fusiliers	Private
	HART, HARRY ROSSLYN	41418	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	MORRIS, JOHN THOMAS	241560	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	CORNWELL, ERIC HARVEY	203793	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	READER, PERCIVAL JOHN	41403	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	SUTTON, ALBERT EDWARD	240757	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Corporal
	WADSWORTH, WILLIAM HENRY	241930	24/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	LANGRIDGE, GEORGE	41426	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
	PERKINS, T	203154		ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN
	PARTRIDGE, HENRY THOMAS	42315	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	JONES, FRANCIS WALTER	59237	24/03/18	25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
	ERRINGTON, ALFRED GEORGE	202802	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	KIRK, CHARLES ERNEST	41421	21/03/18	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Corporal

 

 

PA28349	BLACKHALL, PATRICK	291213	Died Between 21/03/1918 and 24/03/1918	11th Bn. Suffolk Regiment	Private
	GLADDON, ALFRED WILLIAM	42223	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private
	BARBER, CHARLES ELLIS	18190	24/03/18	10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment	Private

 

 

Then there are 5 others who were identified from that location but are not on the German files:

WEBB, HENRY JOHN	241278	21/03/1918	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
SCOTT, S H	32210	21/03/1918	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
ELSBY, JOHN	31109	21/03/1918	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private
BRODEST, T H	56127	07/04/1918	22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers	Private
KELLY, J	16303	21/03/1918	2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment	Private

 

Luc.

[laughton]

Did not know about 28349 - added to the folder. None of them are 2nd/6th North Staffordshire Regiment on the ICRC list so the spreadsheet is not changed, but thankful that someone is checking on my entries!! That makes 7 instead of 4 known to be identified and buried in cemeteries.

 

So what do we do with this? This seems too obvious to be ignored. Men have been added to the CWGC because they were buried in a groundsheet with a number, and as shown recently, incorrectly identified (Pte. Lewis).

 

Here we have an official list sent to the ICRC with considerable "confirmable" details. Now, thanks to Luc, the total matches at 75.

[charlie2]

Brodest does appear in the ICRC lists https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2260788/698/29114/

 

Charlie

[laughton]

Now all we have to do is fill in this table where the other men recovered will fit into the case: (Spreadsheet Download - see tab 3)

 

Plot Row Grave surname G75 initials death 1 rank regiment unit # 1 A 1 MANSELL   W 08-07-17 Private Manchester Regiment 22nd Bn. '25975' 1 A 2 UBS               1 A 3 UBS               1 A 4 UBS               1 A 5 MACKIE   W 14-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/40040' 1 A 6 HENDERSON   J 12-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/40251' 1 A 7 RIDDOCH   J 12-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. '529' 1 A 8 LEE   L 06-07-17 Private Manchester Regiment 22nd Bn. '32840' 1 A 9 COLLINGTON   J 25-06-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/3447' 1 A 10 FRASER   T 14-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. '40410' 1 A 11 GODBER   W O 11-04-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) "C" Coy. 2nd/7th Bn. '306947' 1 A 12 WALSH   T 03-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/7th Bn. '306532' 1 A 13 UGS         Unknown German Soldier     1 A 14 SPIESS   L 22-03-18 Krankentraeger German Army 7.Bayer.San.Kp.   1 A 15 UGS         Unknown German Soldier     1 A 16 UGS         Unknown German Soldier     1 B 1 EWEN   J 01-08-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/43087' 1 B 2 HENNELLY   P 06-07-17 Private Manchester Regiment 24th Bn. '15263' 1 B 3 COOK   W A 16-06-17 Serjeant London Regiment (Post Office Rifles) 8th Bn. '370544' 1 B 4 McGOWAN   J 31-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/13820' 1 B 5 JENNER   C C 12-06-17 Private London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) "C" Coy. 1st Bn. '202633' 1 B 6 ROBERTSHAW   C 27-05-17 Rifleman West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/8th Bn. '305120' 1 B 7 KELLY   P 31-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/7296' 1 B 8 BOND   I 06-07-17 Private Manchester Regiment "B" Coy. 24th Bn. '28222' 1 B 9 DOLAN   P 12-06-17 Private London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) 1st Bn. '204023' 1 B 10 GOLIGHTLY   J 31-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/8237' 1 B 11 GRAINGER   G 10-04-17 Rifleman West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/7th Bn. '265326' 1 B 12 STANDISH   C 21-05-17 Serjeant York and Lancaster Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. '240770' 1 B 13 CHAPPELL   A 21-05-17 Serjeant York and Lancaster Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. '240056' 1 B 14 HEMMINGWAY   H 21-05-17 Private York and Lancaster Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. '241733' 1 B 15 CAMPLIN   W A 21-05-17 Private York and Lancaster Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. '241253' 1 B 16 JOHNSON   R 27-10-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/41255' 1 B 17 CURRIE   G 27-10-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/12251' 1 B 18 HUNTER   J 27-10-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. '235433' 1 B 19 WHYTE   J 15-11-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/41593' 2 A 1 UBS (was BUSH)               2 A 2 MacKINNON   A 27-10-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. '291507' 2 A 2A UBS March 2000               2 A 3 STEEL   T B 15-11-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/41547' 2 A 4 LEWIS   G A 21-10-17 Lance Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers 10th Bn. '34826' 2 A 5 BUCKLEY   R 02-09-17 Lance Corporal Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '201751' 2 A 6 HARRINGTON   D 31-08-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '202459' 2 A 7 GREENHALGH   T 31-08-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '202447' 2 A 8 JONES   I 05-07-17 Private Royal Welsh Fusiliers 1st Bn. '53859' 2 A 9 MEDLEN   J 16-06-17 Private Devonshire Regiment 8th Bn. '18435' 2 A 10 COLES   B J 16-06-17 Private Devonshire Regiment 8th Bn. '28761' 2 A 11 REID   A 16-06-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. '7823' 2 A 12 REES   J 15-06-17 Private Devonshire Regiment 8th Bn. '33509' 2 A 13 HARTLEY   C L 31-05-17 Private London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) 1st Bn. '202775' 2 A 14 ASPINALL   W S 28-05-17 Lance Corporal Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) 201st Coy. '65575' 2 A 15 UBS               2 A 16 VACANT GRAVE               2 A 17 RUSHWORTH   T 07-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '202471' 2 A 18 CAWOOD   W 05-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '300047' 2 A 19 VICKERS   T E 04-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '267172' 2 A 20 BRANKER   W 04-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) "G" Coy 2nd/6th Bn. '267091' 2 A 21 SHACKLETON   T S 05-05-17 Lieutenant Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn.   2 A 22 BARRON   D 03-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '201616' 2 A 22 PARKER   A 03-05-17 Corporal West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/7th Bn. '266461' 2 A 23 ALTHORP   C B 22-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '4129' 2 A 24 FERGUSON   D H R 23-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '1662' 2 A 25 SUMNER   T C 23-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '11126' 2 A 26 McINTOSH   A 11-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '1788' 2 A 27 LIPSCOMB   N H 23-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '33' 2 A 28 MORGAN   S R 11-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '1546' 2 A 29 GRANT   A A 11-04-17 Bombardier Australian Field Artillery 110th Howitzer Bty. 10th Bde. '223' 2 A 30 BEESON   H L 11-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '18636' 2 A 31 STOREY   H 03-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '266736' 2 A 32 BURNS   M 16-04-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/7th Bn. '306633' 2 A 33 PARKER   A 03-05-17 Corporal West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/7th Bn. '266461' 2 A 34 FERGUSON   D S 05-04-17 Rifleman West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) (4854). 2nd/7th Bn. '267038' 2 A 35 TAGGART   L H 11-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '19147' 2 A 36 UBS - see disc 137               2 A 37 WATERWORTH   R J 11-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '268336' 2 A 38 JOHNSON   B C 14-05-17 Lieutenant Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/7th Bn.   2 A 39 GREENHALGH   J 03-05-17 Serjeant Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/7th Bn. '266981' 2 B 1 ROYLE   J H 04-04-17 Private Manchester Regiment 20th Bn. '40324' 2 B 2 ADAMS   W 29-11-17 Private Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) 76th Coy. '14458' 2 B 3 TUGWELL   A 29-11-17 Private Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) 76th Coy. '15625' 2 B 3A 6 UNKNOWN 1999               2 B 4 CRAIG   R 28-11-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/18121' 2 B 5 McCULLOCH   J A 30-11-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/13416' 2 B 5a Dettmanm         2.K.Res.Ers.R.1.     2 B 5b 46 UGS         46 Unknown German Soldiers     2 B 5c UGS         Unknown German Soldier     2 B 5d UGS         Unknown German Soldier     2 B 6 UBS X             2 B 7 UBS X             2 B 8 UBS X       red diamond on sleeve     2 B 9 UBS X             2 B 10 UBS X             2 B 11 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 12 UBS X             2 B 13 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 14 UBS X             2 B 15 WEBB X H J 21-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '241278' 2 B 16 UBS X             2 B 17 UBS X             2 B 18 UBS X             2 B 19 UBS X             2 B 20 THORNE X T B H 21-03-18 Lt. Col. North Staffordshire Regiment (red diamond sleeve) 2nd/6th Bn.   2 B 21 UBS X             2 B 22 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 23 UBS X             2 B 24 UBS X             2 B 25 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 26 UBS X       UBO - H. S. on Drawers - Lt H R Smith     2 B 27 UBS X             2 B 28 UBS X             2 B 29 UBS X             2 B 30 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 31 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 32 UBS X       red diamond on sleeve     2 B 33 UBS X             2 B 34 UBS X             2 B 35 SCOTT X S H 21-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '32210' 2 B 36 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 37 UBS X             2 B 38 ELSBY X J 21-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '31109' 2 B 39 UBS X             2 B 40 UBS X             2 B 41 UBS X       two wound stripes     2 B 42 UBS X             2 B 43 UBS X       false upper teeth - says something else also??     2 B 44 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 45 UBS X             2 B 46 UBS X             2 B 47 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 48 UBS X             2 B 49 UBS X             2 B 50 UBS X             2 B 51 UBS X             2 B 52 UBS X             2 B 53 UBS X             2 B 54 UBS X             2 B 55 BRODEST X T H 07-04-18 Private Northumberland Fusiliers 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. '56127' 2 B 56 UBS X             2 B 57 UBS X       red diamond on sleeve     2 B 58 UBO Lieutenant X       Machine Gun Corps     2 B 59 UBS X       1 Machine Gun Corps     2 B 60 UBS X             2 B 61 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 62 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 63 UBS X             2 B 64 ROSS X S W 21-24-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment "C" Coy. 2nd/6th Bn. '240872' 2 B 65 KELLY X J 21-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '16303' 2 B 66 MOSS X R 21-24-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '202454' 2 B 67 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment     2 B 68 UBS X             2 B 69 UBS X             2 B 70 UBS X             2 B 71 UB Serjt = Pointon? X       North Staffordshire Regiment   200925? 2 B 72 UBS X             2 B 73 PERKINS X T 21-24-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '203154' 2 B 74 UBS X             2 B 75 UBS X             2 B 76 UBS X             2 B 77 UBS X             2 B 78 UBS X             2 B 79 UBS X             2 B 80 UBS X             2 B 5A DETTMANN   F 23-03-18 Musketier German Army 2./R.Ers.R.1   2 C 1 11 UGS         11 Unknown German Soldiers     2 C 2 MATUSZCZAK   M 25-03-18 Musketier German Army 11./R.Ers.R.1   2 C 3 SCHULZ   P 21-03-18 Musketier German Army 11./R.Ers.R.1   2 C 4 LORENZEN   N 21-03-18 Musketier German Army 11./I.R.453   2 C 5 ZIEGLER   P 21-03-18 Schuetze German Army 2.M.G.K./I.R.453   2 C 6 KLESEN   J 22-03-18 Gefreiter German Army 2./R.Ers.R.1   2 C 7 UGS         Unknown German Soldier       SM 1 RICHARDSON   W 13-04-18 Corporal West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 15th Bn. '43635'       TOTAL 75

Edited 1 August , 2018 by laughton
updated table, some graves missing, linked to XLSX file

[LDT006]

41 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

Brodest does appear in the ICRC lists https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2260788/698/29114/

 

Charlie

 

Yes but his reported burial location is different: Road to Bullecourt.

The 2 above him on that PA file are reported at that same location were concentrated to the H.A.C. CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/304233/royston,-/ 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/304174/parry,-arthur/ 

 

1 hour ago, laughton said:

So what do we do with this? This seems too obvious to be ignored. 

 

Here we have an official list sent to the ICRC with considerable "confirmable" details. 

 

I think that there are to many problems to just use the German list of 75 casualties.

As I said before:

2 from the German list were found in a different location

5 were identified and are not on the German list, one of these (Brodest) is listed by the Germans in a different massgrave.

It seems that the Germans mixed up the burial locations, there were much more casualties than these 75, the others were buried in the communal cemetery at Ecoust, others in mass graves in the area (most of these concentrated to the HAC Cemetery).

 

The CWGC docs list some of the unknows from the 75 that can not be found on the German list:

Ex: Grave 2B58: Unknown 2nd Lieut. MGC, can't find him on the PA list and not on CWGC.

 

 

 

Errors were made by the Germans and British but it might be possible to build a case for some individuals.

Just my opinion,

Luc.

 

 

[laughton]

3 hours ago, LDT006 said:

The CWGC docs list some of the unknows from the 75 that can not be found on the German list:

Ex: Grave 2B58: Unknown 2nd Lieut. MGC, can't find him on the PA list and not on CWGC.

 

You never know, he might have been Australian  - how about Lt Reuben Parkes, 34th MGC? He was there, I know because R. Brookshaw was taken from the same unit on 21 March 1918 at Ecoust (ICRC Link). 

 

I was always taught "think outside the box!"

 

But you have a handle on this Luc, so I will leave it in your hands and I will go back to my other cases - it was a short but fun ride!

[LDT006]

Found him:

 

Lieutenant HUTCHINSON, ANDREW LEVY
Died 21/03/1918, 7th Bn. Royal Scots attd. 31st Bn. Machine Gun Corps

 

The war diary of the 31st Bn. Machine Gun Corps confirms that they were there but it has almost no details, he is not listed as a casualty.

There's also the Second Lieutenant vs Lieutenant issue.

 

But he is the only one from the entire Machine Gun Corps without a known grave for that timeframe:

ACERS	W B	24/03/1918	Private	Machine Gun Corps		DOULLENS COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION NO.1
ACQUROFF	A	22/03/1918	Serjeant	Machine Gun Corps		LAPUGNOY MILITARY CEMETERY
CROOK	H	23/03/1918	Private	Machine Gun Corps		ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
JONES	F	24/03/1918	Private	Machine Gun Corps		ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
LOWNDES	W J H	23/03/1918	Corporal	Machine Gun Corps		ABBEVILLE COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
MORGAN	E	24/03/1918	Serjeant	Machine Gun Corps		MONT HUON MILITARY CEMETERY, LE TREPORT
McKENZIE	A	24/03/1918	Serjeant	Machine Gun Corps		ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
PICKETT	F	20/03/1918	Private	Machine Gun Corps		ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
POTTS	R W	24/03/1918	Second Lieutenant	Machine Gun Corps		DERNANCOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
PRITCHARD	T B	23/03/1918	Private	Machine Gun Corps		ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
SAUNDERS	H V B	22/03/1918	Second Lieutenant	Machine Gun Corps		SAILLY-LABOURSE COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
WEBB	G	24/03/1918	Private	Machine Gun Corps		ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
WENBORN	H	24/03/1918	Second Lieutenant	Machine Gun Corps		DERNANCOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
WILSON	H F	21/03/1918	Second Lieutenant	Machine Gun Corps		UNICORN CEMETERY, VENDHUILE
HILL	C R G	20/03/1918	Private	London Regiment	Machine Gun Corps	ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
HUTCHINSON	A L	21/03/1918	Lieutenant	Royal Scots	Machine Gun Corps	ARRAS MEMORIAL
JONES	H W	24/03/1918	Lieutenant	Royal Welsh Fusiliers	Machine Gun Corps	ROSIERES BRITISH CEMETERY
WOLFF	G F	21/03/1918	Major	Royal Welsh Fusiliers	Machine Gun Corps	RED CROSS CORNER CEMETERY, BEUGNY

 

There are 2 cards at ICRC but no PA files or more information:

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/15/01/C_G1_E_15_01_0046/C_G1_E_15_01_0046_2409_0.JPG/

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/15/01/C_G1_E_15_01_0046/C_G1_E_15_01_0046_2339_0.JPG/

 

 

Luc.

[Ancre1917]

I've missed all of these recent post, so thank you Richard, Luc et al for tidying it all up.

 

I did send the CWGC a piece of research suggesting that the body in grave B II.26 might be Lt. HR Smith.  This was back in December but have heard nothing as yet, apart from an acknowledgment.  I'm assuming that the delay is because there are so many cases for them to consider.  I wait in hope.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

[Ancre1917]

Just to confirm, JCCC have accepted that this grave is that of Lt. HR Smith North Staffordshire Regiment.  I started a whole new topic in Recovering the Fallen 

There must be others on the ICRC lists who could be identified  

Richard