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Longton1971

ICRC records of British dead

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Longton1971

Whilst carrying out some research on the 5th and 2nd/6th North Staffordshire Regiment during the German spring offensive 1918, I came across some pages on the ICRC site listing some 31 North Staffordshire soldiers buried by the Germans on the road from Ecoust to Croiselles.  They appear to have been exhumed by the IWGC from this site at 57C.2.a.8.6 and reburied at the Military Cemetery Ecoust St. Mein. It looks as if only 7 of them were identified, but all their names ranks and numbers were forwarded by the Germans to the ICRC.  The page numbers on the ICRC site are `PA 28292, 28293, and 289294.  There may be other ICRC references, but I haven't been able to track them down.  I suppose there wasn't enough evidence to identify them fully, so they are now UBS.  Lt. Col Thorne was amongst them and was only identified later by his badges of rank and a red diamond on his uniform. 

 

I've reposted this here to see if someone with knowledge on dealing with issues like this can give me advice on whether or not I should get in touch with CWGC.  Looking at the concentration records for Ecoust St. Mean, it looks as if they were mostly reburied there after the war.  Do the CWGC make note of evidence such as this, and might they add it to the database to show that these men are "believed to be buried in this cemetery"?  

 

The identified NSR men are

31109 Elsby John

16303 Kelly J

2012454 Moss R

203154 Perkins T

240872 Ross Sidney Watkiss

32210 Scott SH

Lt. Col Thorne TBH (I can't find his ICRC card; he was identified from his rank badges etc.)

241278 Webb Henry John

 

Any advice will be gratefully received

 

Richard

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Longton1971

Further to the above, there is a lieutenant named in the common grave made by the Germans in Ecoust -

 

Lt Harold Rymer Smith, who is now commemorated on the Arras memorial.  There is North Staffordshire officer buried in Ecoust St Men who, when he was exhumed, was found to have the initials HS on his drawers (see Burial report grave 26).  This officer is referred to in the ICRC report as being buried in the common grave north of Ecoust on the Croiselles road (see his  ICRC card and common grave list).  This would be at the point referred to on the Burial report at 57C.2.a.8.6

 

I can't find another officer killed at this time with these initials.  Is there a case that his grave might be recognised by CWGC on this evidence?

 

 

 

Richard

Burial report.jpg

Lt HR Smith ICRC card.jpg

NSR Common Grave.jpg

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LDT006

Hello,

 

there is no doubt that Lt Harold Rymer Smith is buried at Ecoust St. Mein.

But the British documents do not clearly state that it was a North Staffordshire officer at grave 2B26, see GRRF document below.

CWGC will not accept this case based only on the German list, you will need more supporting documents.

Do you have the war diary? This should place them in the area where the remains were found. You might have a case if his name is listed as a casualty for those dates.

CWGC has a set of criteria for a report, they will not accept a simple document referring to this German list.

 

But this is a great find, 75 remains exhumed from a mass grave and a German list with 75 names.

I checked some of the service numbers and names and already found 8 of them on the Arras memorial.

 

Regards,

Luc.

 

doc1998230.JPG.ac6e76c2d5c10cb792ab7680f3fecffd.JPG

 

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Longton1971

Thanks for that advice, Luc.  Did you pick up the other ICRC documents I referred to in my original post?  I omitted one: PA 28348, which list more names.  There may be others too, but I haven't found them yet.  As far as Lt. HR Smith is concerned, I can see now that he is not listed on the burial report as a North Staffordshire officer.  There is something rubbed out under the document you posted, but clearly the writer wanted it ignored as he wrote STET in the margin.  I'm not able to read it.  Can you? He is listed on the CWGC site as 11th battalion, which is strange.  He's not referred to in the 5 battalion's war diary, or their post war history.  But, a Lt. Smith was mentioned by Major Keating of 2/6 battalion in a post war report (he was a pow).  Smith was said to have died of wounds.  The 2/6 were actually in Ecoust St Mein, the place where these men were buried by the Germans and where Keating was captured.  But was he HR Smith? And where did he succumb to his wounds? So, not much to go one, I'm afraid. However, there's only one Lt H Smith recorded as being killed 20-24 March 1918 from NSR.  

 

I would be interested in getting any information you have on your finds, Luc, if you don't mind sharing it with me.  I can pm you my email address, if that would help.

 

Richard

 

Keating report.jpg

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Longton1971

I've had a look through the CWGC records for officers named SMITH who died between 21 and 14 March 1918.  I found 16, but could have missed some.  Only four have a first name beginning with an H

 

Lt. Harold Rymer Smith North Staffordshire Regiment (see posts above);

Lt Norman Havelock Smith 20th London Regiment Arras memorial

2nd Lt Harold Andrew Smith 2nd/6th Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby) Regiment Arras memorial

Captain Hubert Leslie Smith 19th King's (Liverpool) Regiment Pozières memorial

 

As far as I can tell from tracking down the 20th battalion London Regiment and 2nd/6th battalion Sherwood Foresters, neither was anywhere near Ecoust St. Mein.  The nearest I can get them is over 10 miles away: the 141 Brigade were occupying the old German trenches between Etricourt and Ytres according to the 1922 history of the 47th Division, which is between 11 and 13 miles away; the 2nd/6th Sherwood Foresters were at Sailley-Saillisel in 57C.U.14, according to their war diary, which is about 12 miles away.

 

 I'm not able to find where the 19th King's (Liverpool) Regiment (89th Brigade, 30 Division) was on 24 March  when Capt. Smith died. Can anyone help on this?

 

Does this add anything that might convince the CWGC?

 

Richard

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laughton
On 11/6/2017 at 05:28, Longton1971 said:

I'm not able to find where the 19th King's (Liverpool) Regiment (89th Brigade, 30 Division) was on 24 March  when Capt. Smith died. Can anyone help on this?

The war diary says near Moyencourt 66d.014.a for the 89th Brigade. The war diary and trench map coordinates agree (page 444 of 742).

 

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Guest

24/3/1918 The Battalion was again ordered to withdraw and move to Roye Eglise during the evening arriving at 7.30 p.m.. During the operation Major C W Biggs MC and Lt J W Parker and about 60 other ranks became casualties.

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_2334_1-00000?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d60779%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=43112_2334_1-00409

 

Mike

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Longton1971

Thanks Richard.  I sent the evidence to the GWGC before Christmas and am awaiting their reply.

Richard

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AOK4

I have sold a picture card showing the burials at Ecoust St. Mein: https://www.delcampe.net/nl/verzamelingen/item/313792867.html

 

I should have another copy of this card somewhere. I'll have a look and see whethere there are some more details to see.

 

Jan

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laughton
Quote

The page numbers on the ICRC site are `PA 28292, 28293, and 289294

 

I missed that before!

 

28292

 

28293

 

28294

 

Do we have an update on this topic? It caught my interest as I would have never known that those documents were a burial list. That is where I have to rely on Luc!

 

I am curious, as to whether there are many such lists and what has happened to them vis-a-vis the CWGC work on naming the unknowns.

 

I randomly picked a name off PA 28293: E Marstone #32066 who is on the Arras Memorial. He served in the 22nd Northumberland Fusiliers, my grandfather in the 26th.

 

That was on the 3rd day of the German Offensive. If I understand you correctly, these lists tell us where these men were buried, so then we should be able to match that to cemeteries in the area that show the unknowns - or am I missing the linkage?

 

Has anyone taken all the names to see which ones are in known graves versus the unknown?

 

Fascinating!

 

I have not done the binders for the ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY but I will get that done ASAP. I looked at Jan's pictures

image.png (this one) and immediately saw Ferguson #1662 who was identified. 

 

I would think as a minimum they need a "Special Memorial B" in that cemetery. Anyone working on this and/or what has the CWGC said to date?

 

 

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LDT006

I made a list from those PA files a long time ago and checked with the CWGC records. There are some problems with it, errors made by the Germans or misidentification by the British, CWGC will almost certainly not accept this to alter their records (IMHO).

I will try to post it later today.

 

Those PA files state that the ID discs were sent in from a burial compagnie and that they died 21-24 March 1918 close to Ecoust. They were buried in a massgrave at the cemetery to the north of Ecoust at the road to Croisilles.

 

The erected crosses in the photo are from the existing cemetery created by the British in April 1917 and the Germans are digging a mass grave to bury the visible remains of 75 British soldiers.

 

Luc.

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laughton

Thanks for the update Luc!

 

The other file mention by Richard was PA 28348

 

I have put the ZIP files for the GRRF, COG-BR and HD-SCHD here:

 

Ecoust Military Cemetery ZIP FIles

 

It appears the COG-BR files are for the 75 men found in the one large grave. Someone has probably already counted to see if there are 75 on the German list.

Edited by laughton

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laughton

I put the ICRC documents (the 4 pages of lists) in a folder here: Ecoust Military Cemetery Anything else I find I will put there as well. These are the direct links:

 

28292 (19 men)

 

28293 (20 men)

 

28294 (13 men and I assume the 3 others are something else - Plumb and Hopkinson were in Rumaucourt G.C. now in Vis-en-Artois COG-BR 2060913 )

 

28348 (20 men)

TOTAL (72 men)

 

Did anyone figure out who Sgt. A. Killcross really is? I see the lad above him is 2nd Corporal Teasdale #128143 of the Royal Engineers and named on the Arras Memorial.

 

I see there is a Serjeant of the North Staffordshire Regiment in Plot 2 Row B Grave 71 that is part of the group of 75.

 

COG-BR 1998251

 

GRRF 1998232

 

On the first of the ICRC lists, if I am following you on this, there is a Serjeant Ernest Pointon #200925 of the 2/6 North Staff. Rgt. He is listed on the Arras Memorial. I can see where the CWGC would enter the picture here as there are five (5) on the Arras Memorial from the same unit, the other 4 KIA 21 March 1918 rather than 24 March 1918 (CWGC Link). None of the other 4 are on the ICRC list.

 

LLT tells us the 2nd/6th "Prince of Wales (North Staffordshire Regiment)" is 176th Brigade, 59th (2nd North Midland) Division.

 

Their war diary starts here for that period (page 2 of 114).

 

For March 1918 (page 40 of 114).

 

On 19 March 1918 they are at Bullecourt 51b.U.27.b (McMaster 51b Arras) where they relieved the 2nd/5th Bn  Lincoln Regiment (page 42 of 114).

 

The Ecoust Military Cemetery is at 57c.C.2.a.8.6, (McMaster Map 57c Bapaume) the same reference where the COG-BR says the remains were recovered. Sectors 51b.U and 57c.C are bordering sectors. There is a cemetery marked on the period trench maps of 1918 but it appears to be at 57c.C.2.a.0.9. The sketch shows another cemetery in the Hogs back to the west of Ecoust

 

21 March 1918 was quite the day, as the great German barrage opened followed by an attack in large numbers. That was the day Lt. Col. Thorne was killed. Captain Cotes took over but he too was soon wounded, leaving the battalion in the hands of 2/Lt Murphy. They had moved from Bullecourt to Courcelles les Comte, then to Douchy on the 22nd, Bouzincourt (57d.W.7) on the 23rd, and Beaucourt (57d.K.12) on the 25th. Serjeant Pointon is marked as KIA on the 24th, so sometime during the march out of the area.

 

There is a sketch of the locations of the attacks on 21 March 1918 (page 44 of 114). A detailed narrative of actions on 21 March 1918 follows (page 45 of 114).

 

 

 

 

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charlie962
41 minutes ago, laughton said:

Did anyone figure out who Sgt. A. Killcross really is?

The ICRC card for him is followed by another for Pte Alfred Killcross.

The SDGW shows that these are one and the same  ie   49296 Formerly 35173... Regiment: Lancashire Fusiliers, 1st Battalion Formerly Cheshire Regt.

 

CWGC have him here on Ploegsteert Memorial, ie no known grave ?

 

Edit- the various UK memorial sites don't seem to have this info ?

 

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962

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laughton

My preliminary count is 25 0f 113 of the men of the 2nd/6th North Staffordshire Regiment on the ICRC list for the ARRAS MEMORIAL and 4 of 13 in cemeteries (now 7 there, see Luc's post that follows, but not on ICRC list). Cansdale #40980 and Morris #241560 were not on the initial CWGC search results for the Arras Memorial because the word "Bn." was missing after the "2nd/6th" (CWGC notified).

 

I am not sure I understand why the CWGC would not accept the German List sent to the ICRC as an indication that these men were buried just outside that cemetery, and later concentrated into the cemetery? Why not a "Special Memorial A" (Buried elsewhere in this cemetery) or a "Special Memorial B" (Believed to be buried in this cemetery)?

 

Quote

Ecoust-St. Mein was captured by the 8th and 9th Devons in a blizzard on 2 April 1917, lost on 21 March 1918, and retaken at the end of the following August by the 3rd Division. The military cemetery was begun in April 1917 and used by fighting units until March 1918. A number of burials were then made by the Germans and after the Armistice, further graves, almost all of the 2nd/6th North Staffords, were brought into Plot II, Row B from a position just outside the cemetery. Ecoust Military Cemetery contains 156 Commonwealth burials and commemorations of the First World War. Exactly half of the burials are unidentified but a special memorial commemorates one casualty who is known to be buried among them. The cemetery also contains 71 German burials, the majority of them unidentified.

 

CEMETERIES

surname forename death death 2 rank NSR # cemetery grave ICRC
RUSHTON THOMAS 21-03-18   Lance Corporal 2nd/6th Bn. '201673' CANADIAN CEMETERY NO.2, NEUVILLE-ST. VAAST Joint grave 22. A. 82-83.  
LEESE SAMUEL 24-03-18   Private 2nd/6th Bn. '203549' CROISILLES BRITISH CEMETERY VI. E. 6. X as SSR
ELSBY JOHN 21-03-18   Private 2nd/6th Bn. '31109' ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN II. B. 38.  
KELLY J 21-03-18   Private 2nd/6th Bn. '16303' ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN II. B. 65.  
MOSS R 21-03-18 24-03-18 Private 2nd/6th Bn. '202454' ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN II. B. 66. X
PERKINS T 21-03-18 24-03-18 Private 2nd/6th Bn. '203154' ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN II. B. 73. X
ROSS SIDNEY WATKISS 21-03-18 24-03-18 Private "C" Coy. 2nd/6th Bn. '240872' ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN II. B. 64. X
SCOTT S H 21-03-18   Private 2nd/6th Bn. '32210' ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN II. B. 35.  
THORNE THOMAS BEZLEY HOUGHTON 21-03-18   Lieutenant Colonel 2nd/6th Bn.   ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN II. B. 20.  
WEBB HENRY JOHN 21-03-18   Private 2nd/6th Bn. '241278' ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN II. B. 15.  
LONG LEWIS WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private 2nd/6th Bn. '202718' H.A.C. CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN III. K. 11.  
MITCHELL GEORGE 21-03-18   Private 2nd/6th Bn. '32488' QUEANT ROAD CEMETERY, BUISSY III. H. 36.  
RIDGWAY FREDERICK 21-03-18   Private "C" Coy. 2nd/6th Bn. '200463' QUEANT ROAD CEMETERY, BUISSY Noreuil German Cem.  Mem. 1.  
TOTAL 13               4

 

ARRAS MEMORIAL

surname forename death death 2 rank secondary_regiment NSR # ICRC
ABBOTTS HARRY 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '242025'  
ALMOND WILLIE 21-03-18   Private Lincolnshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '40856'  
BAILEY GEORGE 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '12046'  
BARBER ARCHIBALD 21-03-18   Private Royal Army Medical Corps 2nd/6th Bn. '47439'  
BARNES EDWIN JAMES 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '203088'  
BARNES ZENAS EDWARD 21-03-18   Private Norfolk Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '41432'  
BEARMAN GEORGE WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202634'  
BEER WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '48648'  
BELL DAVIDSON 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '48360'  
BERESFORD THOMAS GEORGE 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241507' X
BOAG LEONARD GEORGE 21-03-18   Private Suffolk Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '41414' X
BOSLEY WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202312'  
BRIAN BENJAMIN 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '201283'  
BRIERLEY FRED 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '40277'  
BROWN HORACE 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '260073'  
BROWN HORACE WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '242099'  
BROWN WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '22270'  
BRYENTON ISHMAEL 21-03-18   Lance Corporal   2nd/6th Bn. '241518'  
CANSDALE HENRY CHARLES 21-03-18   Private Bn. Missing on CWGC 2nd/6th Bn. 40980'  
CARTLEDGE ALFRED 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241622'  
CASSELL BEN 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '31888' X as 31898
CAUSER GEORGE 21-03-18   Serjeant   2nd/6th Bn. '241655'  
CHATTERTON JAMES 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '12528'  
CHATTERTON WALTER THOMAS 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '203019'  
CLACKETT CHARLES WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private Army Service Corps 2nd/6th Bn. '50781'  
CLARK PERCY 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241920'  
CLARKE CHARLES FISHER 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '47895'  
CORNWELL ERIC HARVEY 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '203793' X
COY HARRY 21-03-18   Private Army Service Corps 2nd/6th Bn. '50780'  
CROSS GEORGE 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '40360'  
CURTIS ROBERT 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '48372'  
DALRYMPLE LAWRENCE RICHARD 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '242096' X
DOBSON SYKES 25-03-18 25-06-18 Private   2nd/6th Bn. '31905'  
DONNELLY JOHN 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '38070'  
DONNELLY THOMAS 21-03-18   Private Army Service Corps 2nd/6th Bn. '50550'  
DUMBLETON LEWIS 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '39223'  
DUROSE ERNEST 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '201139'  
ELDRIDGE WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202102'  
ELLIS ARTHUR 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '242633'  
FELLOWES CYRIL WALTER 21-03-18   Second Lieutenant 2nd/6th Bn.    
FRANCIS SIDNEY 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '242070'  
FREARSON FREDERICK 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '40661'  
GRATTAGE CHARLES 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '12619'  
GREEN ARTHUR FAIRBROTHER 21-03-18   Second Lieutenant 2nd/6th Bn.    
GRIFFIN ERNEST 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241638'  
GRIFFITHS THOMAS 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '14436'  
HARDY HAROLD VICTOR 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241916'  
HART HARRY ROSSLYN 21-03-18   Private Suffolk Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '41418' X
HASSALL WILLIAM HARRY 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '201952'  
HAWKES HAROLD 21-03-18   Lance Corporal   2nd/6th Bn. '242044' X
HILDITCH ARTHUR EDWARD 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '201289' X
HOLLAND GEORGE WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '48666'  
HOLLIS JOSEPH MATHEW 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '201905'  
HOWLE WALTER 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '200943'  
HUBBARD JOHN THOMAS 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202024'  
HURLEY JOHN 24-03-18   Corporal   2nd/6th Bn. '235038'  
JONES GEORGE 21-03-18   Lance Serjeant   2nd/6th Bn. '241709'  
KIRK CHARLES ERNEST 21-03-18   Corporal   2nd/6th Bn. '41421'  
KIRKLAND ARTHUR 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241377'  
KITCHEN WILLIAM RUPERT 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '203786'  
LANGFORD HARRY 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241394'  
LANGRIDGE GEORGE 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '41426' X
LAWTON FREDERICK THOMAS 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '201412'  
LOVELOCK WALTER CHARLES ERNEST 21-03-18   Private   "D" Coy., 2nd/6th Bn. '200721'  
LYONS ROBERT GEORGE 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202754' X
MACDONALD ALEXANDER WILLIAM 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '37011' X
MELLOR JOHN WILLIAM 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241631'  
MOORE BERTIE ALLAN 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '41385'  
MORETON ERNEST WHITFIELD 21-03-18   Lance Corporal   2nd/6th Bn. '241541'  
MORRIS JOHN THOMAS 21-03-18   Private Bn. Missing on CWGC 2nd/6th Bn. 241560' X
MORRISON ALFRED 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '203122' X
MURRELL GEORGE 21-03-18   Serjeant   2nd/6th Bn. '202082'  
NAYLOR WILLIAM 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '203123' X
ORAM RICHARD 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '48423' X
POINTON ERNEST 24-03-18   Serjeant   2nd/6th Bn '200925' X
PRICE ARTHUR 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '48668'  
PRICE JAMES 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '27547'  
PRINCE FREDERICK 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '18060'  
PUGH MATTHEW 21-03-18   Private Army Service Corps 2nd/6th Bn. '48471'  
READER PERCIVAL JOHN 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '41403' X
REID DAVID 21-03-18   Private Army Service Corps 2nd/6th Bn. '48473'  
ROGERS ALBERT 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202268' X
SECKER FRANK 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '31913'  
SEDDONS EDWARD 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '12234'  
SHULVER FREDERICK HENRY 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '32471'  
SIMONS JOHN EDWARD 21-03-18   Private Lincolnshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '40892'  
SKELLAM EDWIN 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '203264'  
SLACK FRANCIS EVLYN 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '240862'  
SMITH JOHN 21-03-18   Lance Corporal Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '23568'  
SMITH THOMAS 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '201941'  
STANLEY FREDERICK CHARLES 21-03-18   Serjeant Cambridgeshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '260086'  
STANWAY FREDERICK 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '18555'  
STENTON ALBERT 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '48311'  
STEVENSON JAMES 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '41393' X
STORR FRANK 24-03-18   Private Lincolnshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '260070' X
SUTTON ALBERT EDWARD 21-03-18   Corporal   2nd/6th Bn. '240757' X
TEMPLER ALBERT 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202095' X
THOMPSON ARTHUR WILLIAM 21-03-18   Lance Corporal Suffolk Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '41408' X
THURSTON JOHN JAMES 21-03-18   Private Norfolk Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '41427'  
TURNER FRED 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241413'  
VAUGHAN CHARLES 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241140'  
VAUGHAN SIDNEY JUBILEE 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202580'  
WADSWORTH WILLIAM HENRY 24-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241930' X
WALKER JAMES THOMAS HARRY 21-03-18   Serjeant   2nd/6th Bn. '240177'  
WALKER JOSEPH 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '200194'  
WALKER MAURICE JOHN 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '242261'  
WATKINSON CHARLES FREDERICK 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241991'  
WELBOURN THOMAS HODGSON 21-03-18   Lance Corporal   2nd/6th Bn. '241602'  
WILLIAMS ROBERT 21-03-18   Lance Corporal   2nd/6th Bn. '241923' X
WITTON LIONEL HAMER 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '202781'  
WOODINGS JOHN 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '241021'  
WRIGHT SAMUEL JESSE 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '203162'  
YATES JAMES 21-03-18   Private   2nd/6th Bn. '201770'  
TOTAL 113             25
Edited by laughton
added 3 not on ICRC from Luc's list below

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LDT006

This is the list of the 75 men buried there by the Germans. (@Richard you forgot PA28349 with the last 3 names)

Errors are marked in orange, ex: Gale and Leese were found at a different location. Westwick is listed 2 times with a different description.

Those who were identified are marked in green.

 

PA28292 STEVENSON, JAMES 41393 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  GALE, J W 37972   Queant CC 57c.D.1.d.3.6, now in Achiet le grand CCE  
  BOAG, LEONARD GEORGE 41414 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  THOMPSON, ARTHUR WILLIAM 41408 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Lance Corporal
  WILLIAMS, ROBERT 241923 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Lance Corporal
  JONES, GEORGE ARTHUR 42309 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  LYONS, ROBERT GEORGE 202754 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  DALRYMPLE, LAWRENCE RICHARD 242096 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  HAWKES, HAROLD 242044 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Lance Corporal
  CASSELL, BEN 31888 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  NAYLOR, WILLIAM 203123 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  BACON, WILLIAM GEORGE 242252 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  BALL, ALBERT HENRY 51191 24/03/18 12th Bn. Suffolk Regiment Private
  STORR, FRANK 260070 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  MORRISON, ALFRED 203122 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  ORAM, RICHARD 48423 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  BONNY, SYDNEY 59430 21/03/18 23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  BUTCHER, JAMES HARRY 41318 22/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  BRADFORD, HERBERT 128917 22/03/18 3rd Bn. Special Bde. Royal Engineers Pioneer

 

PA28293 CADDICK, GEORGE 59072 21/03/18 23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  COLEMAN, ARTHUR VICTOR 42611 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  DIAMOND, ERNEST 49590 22/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  ELLIS, TOM 11931 22/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  DOBISON, GEORGE 22/1123 21/03/18 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  DUMBLETON, LEWIS 39223 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  EBBS, GEORGE FREDERICK JAMES 28225 22/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  FERGUSSON, HAMILTON 56105 21/03/18 25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  FORWARD, HORACE FREDERICK 42634 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  HYND, WILLIAM 17364 21/03/18 34th Coy. Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) Private
  HOLLAND, ALBERT EDWARD 49407 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  JONES, ALFRED JOHN 40569 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  LOVACK-LAND, WILLIAM 58509 24/03/18 59th Bn. Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) Lance Corporal
  MACDONALD, ALEXANDER WILLIAM 37011 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  MARSTON, EDWARD 32066 24/03/18 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  MILLAR, JOHN 19067 24/03/18 16th Bn. Royal Scots Private
  MOSS, R 202454   ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN  
  MOTTRAM, WILLIAM SIDNEY 42183 22/03/18 "A" Coy. 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  MUSTIN, ALBERT EDWARD 49946 22/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  NEVILLE, WILLIAM ARTHUR 48513 21/03/18 25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private

 

 

PA28294 NICHOLAS, FRITZ 56213 21/03/18 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Lance Corporal
  ORFORD, ARTHUR FURZE 329306 21/03/18 11th Bn. Suffolk Regiment Private
  RIMMINGTON, CECIL 29824 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  SMAILS, ARTHUR 22/324 21/03/18 23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  TAYLOR, WILLIAM 1224 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  THORNE, THOMAS BEZLEY HOUGHTON   21/03/18 ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN Lieutenant Colonel
  TURNBULL, ALBERT HOTCHIN 31092 22/03/18 11th Bn. Suffolk Regiment Private
  AUBREY, SYDNEY DOUGLAS 51516 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  WESTWICK, LH     AOC 12343 or 12345  
  WESTWICK, LOUIS HENRY 59008 21/03/18 23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  WATSON, THOMAS CHRISTOPHER 39762 21/03/18 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  LEESE, SAMUEL 203549 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  TEASDALE, THOMAS ARTHUR 128143 22/03/18 "J" Special Coy. Royal Engineers 2nd Corporal

 

 

PA28348 BERESFORD, THOMAS GEORGE 241507 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  POINTON, ERNEST 200925 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Serjeant
  ROGERS, ALBERT 202268 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  SMITH, HAROLD RYMER   21/03/18 11th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Lieutenant
  ROSS, SIDNEY WATKISS 240872   ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN  
  HILDITCH, ARTHUR EDWARD 201289 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  TEMPLER, ALBERT 202095 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  WOODALL, ARTHUR 40161 21/03/18 6th/7th Bn. Royal Scots Fusiliers Private
  HART, HARRY ROSSLYN 41418 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  MORRIS, JOHN THOMAS 241560 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  CORNWELL, ERIC HARVEY 203793 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  READER, PERCIVAL JOHN 41403 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  SUTTON, ALBERT EDWARD 240757 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Corporal
  WADSWORTH, WILLIAM HENRY 241930 24/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  LANGRIDGE, GEORGE 41426 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
  PERKINS, T 203154   ECOUST MILITARY CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN  
  PARTRIDGE, HENRY THOMAS 42315 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  JONES, FRANCIS WALTER 59237 24/03/18 25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
  ERRINGTON, ALFRED GEORGE 202802 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  KIRK, CHARLES ERNEST 41421 21/03/18 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Corporal

 

 

PA28349 BLACKHALL, PATRICK 291213 Died Between 21/03/1918 and 24/03/1918 11th Bn. Suffolk Regiment Private
  GLADDON, ALFRED WILLIAM 42223 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private
  BARBER, CHARLES ELLIS 18190 24/03/18 10th Bn. Lincolnshire Regiment Private

 

 

Then there are 5 others who were identified from that location but are not on the German files:

WEBB, HENRY JOHN 241278    21/03/1918 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
SCOTT, S H 32210    21/03/1918 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
ELSBY, JOHN 31109    21/03/1918 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private
BRODEST, T H 56127    07/04/1918 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers Private
KELLY, J 16303    21/03/1918 2nd/6th Bn. North Staffordshire Regiment Private

 

Luc.

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laughton

Did not know about 28349 - added to the folder. None of them are 2nd/6th North Staffordshire Regiment on the ICRC list so the spreadsheet is not changed, but thankful that someone is checking on my entries!! That makes 7 instead of 4 known to be identified and buried in cemeteries.

 

So what do we do with this? This seems too obvious to be ignored. Men have been added to the CWGC because they were buried in a groundsheet with a number, and as shown recently, incorrectly identified (Pte. Lewis).

 

Here we have an official list sent to the ICRC with considerable "confirmable" details. Now, thanks to Luc, the total matches at 75.

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laughton

Now all we have to do is fill in this table where the other men recovered will fit into the case: (Spreadsheet Download - see tab 3)

 

Plot Row Grave surname G75 initials death 1 rank regiment unit #
1 A 1 MANSELL   W 08-07-17 Private Manchester Regiment 22nd Bn. '25975'
1 A 2 UBS              
1 A 3 UBS              
1 A 4 UBS              
1 A 5 MACKIE   W 14-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/40040'
1 A 6 HENDERSON   J 12-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/40251'
1 A 7 RIDDOCH   J 12-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. '529'
1 A 8 LEE   L 06-07-17 Private Manchester Regiment 22nd Bn. '32840'
1 A 9 COLLINGTON   J 25-06-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/3447'
1 A 10 FRASER   T 14-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. '40410'
1 A 11 GODBER   W O 11-04-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) "C" Coy. 2nd/7th Bn. '306947'
1 A 12 WALSH   T 03-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/7th Bn. '306532'
1 A 13 UGS         Unknown German Soldier    
1 A 14 SPIESS   L 22-03-18 Krankentraeger German Army 7.Bayer.San.Kp.  
1 A 15 UGS         Unknown German Soldier    
1 A 16 UGS         Unknown German Soldier    
1 B 1 EWEN   J 01-08-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/43087'
1 B 2 HENNELLY   P 06-07-17 Private Manchester Regiment 24th Bn. '15263'
1 B 3 COOK   W A 16-06-17 Serjeant London Regiment (Post Office Rifles) 8th Bn. '370544'
1 B 4 McGOWAN   J 31-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/13820'
1 B 5 JENNER   C C 12-06-17 Private London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) "C" Coy. 1st Bn. '202633'
1 B 6 ROBERTSHAW   C 27-05-17 Rifleman West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/8th Bn. '305120'
1 B 7 KELLY   P 31-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/7296'
1 B 8 BOND   I 06-07-17 Private Manchester Regiment "B" Coy. 24th Bn. '28222'
1 B 9 DOLAN   P 12-06-17 Private London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) 1st Bn. '204023'
1 B 10 GOLIGHTLY   J 31-07-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. 'S/8237'
1 B 11 GRAINGER   G 10-04-17 Rifleman West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/7th Bn. '265326'
1 B 12 STANDISH   C 21-05-17 Serjeant York and Lancaster Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. '240770'
1 B 13 CHAPPELL   A 21-05-17 Serjeant York and Lancaster Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. '240056'
1 B 14 HEMMINGWAY   H 21-05-17 Private York and Lancaster Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. '241733'
1 B 15 CAMPLIN   W A 21-05-17 Private York and Lancaster Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. '241253'
1 B 16 JOHNSON   R 27-10-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/41255'
1 B 17 CURRIE   G 27-10-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/12251'
1 B 18 HUNTER   J 27-10-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. '235433'
1 B 19 WHYTE   J 15-11-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/41593'
2 A 1 UBS (was BUSH)              
2 A 2 MacKINNON   A 27-10-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. '291507'
2 A 2A UBS March 2000              
2 A 3 STEEL   T B 15-11-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/41547'
2 A 4 LEWIS   G A 21-10-17 Lance Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers 10th Bn. '34826'
2 A 5 BUCKLEY   R 02-09-17 Lance Corporal Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '201751'
2 A 6 HARRINGTON   D 31-08-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '202459'
2 A 7 GREENHALGH   T 31-08-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '202447'
2 A 8 JONES   I 05-07-17 Private Royal Welsh Fusiliers 1st Bn. '53859'
2 A 9 MEDLEN   J 16-06-17 Private Devonshire Regiment 8th Bn. '18435'
2 A 10 COLES   B J 16-06-17 Private Devonshire Regiment 8th Bn. '28761'
2 A 11 REID   A 16-06-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 2nd Bn. '7823'
2 A 12 REES   J 15-06-17 Private Devonshire Regiment 8th Bn. '33509'
2 A 13 HARTLEY   C L 31-05-17 Private London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) 1st Bn. '202775'
2 A 14 ASPINALL   W S 28-05-17 Lance Corporal Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) 201st Coy. '65575'
2 A 15 UBS              
2 A 16 VACANT GRAVE              
2 A 17 RUSHWORTH   T 07-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '202471'
2 A 18 CAWOOD   W 05-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '300047'
2 A 19 VICKERS   T E 04-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '267172'
2 A 20 BRANKER   W 04-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) "G" Coy 2nd/6th Bn. '267091'
2 A 21 SHACKLETON   T S 05-05-17 Lieutenant Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn.  
2 A 22 BARRON   D 03-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/4th Bn. '201616'
2 A 22 PARKER   A 03-05-17 Corporal West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/7th Bn. '266461'
2 A 23 ALTHORP   C B 22-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '4129'
2 A 24 FERGUSON   D H R 23-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '1662'
2 A 25 SUMNER   T C 23-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '11126'
2 A 26 McINTOSH   A 11-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '1788'
2 A 27 LIPSCOMB   N H 23-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '33'
2 A 28 MORGAN   S R 11-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '1546'
2 A 29 GRANT   A A 11-04-17 Bombardier Australian Field Artillery 110th Howitzer Bty. 10th Bde. '223'
2 A 30 BEESON   H L 11-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '18636'
2 A 31 STOREY   H 03-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '266736'
2 A 32 BURNS   M 16-04-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/7th Bn. '306633'
2 A 33 PARKER   A 03-05-17 Corporal West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/7th Bn. '266461'
2 A 34 FERGUSON   D S 05-04-17 Rifleman West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) (4854). 2nd/7th Bn. '267038'
2 A 35 TAGGART   L H 11-04-17 Gunner Australian Field Artillery 10th Bde. '19147'
2 A 36 UBS - see disc 137              
2 A 37 WATERWORTH   R J 11-05-17 Private Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/6th Bn. '268336'
2 A 38 JOHNSON   B C 14-05-17 Lieutenant Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/7th Bn.  
2 A 39 GREENHALGH   J 03-05-17 Serjeant Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 2nd/7th Bn. '266981'
2 B 1 ROYLE   J H 04-04-17 Private Manchester Regiment 20th Bn. '40324'
2 B 2 ADAMS   W 29-11-17 Private Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) 76th Coy. '14458'
2 B 3 TUGWELL   A 29-11-17 Private Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) 76th Coy. '15625'
2 B 3A 6 UNKNOWN 1999              
2 B 4 CRAIG   R 28-11-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/18121'
2 B 5 McCULLOCH   J A 30-11-17 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn. 'S/13416'
2 B 5a Dettmanm         2.K.Res.Ers.R.1.    
2 B 5b 46 UGS         46 Unknown German Soldiers    
2 B 5c UGS         Unknown German Soldier    
2 B 5d UGS         Unknown German Soldier    
2 B 6 UBS X            
2 B 7 UBS X            
2 B 8 UBS X       red diamond on sleeve    
2 B 9 UBS X            
2 B 10 UBS X            
2 B 11 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 12 UBS X            
2 B 13 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 14 UBS X            
2 B 15 WEBB X H J 21-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '241278'
2 B 16 UBS X            
2 B 17 UBS X            
2 B 18 UBS X            
2 B 19 UBS X            
2 B 20 THORNE X T B H 21-03-18 Lt. Col. North Staffordshire Regiment (red diamond sleeve) 2nd/6th Bn.  
2 B 21 UBS X            
2 B 22 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 23 UBS X            
2 B 24 UBS X            
2 B 25 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 26 UBS X       UBO - H. S. on Drawers - Lt H R Smith    
2 B 27 UBS X            
2 B 28 UBS X            
2 B 29 UBS X            
2 B 30 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 31 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 32 UBS X       red diamond on sleeve    
2 B 33 UBS X            
2 B 34 UBS X            
2 B 35 SCOTT X S H 21-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '32210'
2 B 36 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 37 UBS X            
2 B 38 ELSBY X J 21-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '31109'
2 B 39 UBS X            
2 B 40 UBS X            
2 B 41 UBS X       two wound stripes    
2 B 42 UBS X            
2 B 43 UBS X       false upper teeth - says something else also??    
2 B 44 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 45 UBS X            
2 B 46 UBS X            
2 B 47 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 48 UBS X            
2 B 49 UBS X            
2 B 50 UBS X            
2 B 51 UBS X            
2 B 52 UBS X            
2 B 53 UBS X            
2 B 54 UBS X            
2 B 55 BRODEST X T H 07-04-18 Private Northumberland Fusiliers 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn. '56127'
2 B 56 UBS X            
2 B 57 UBS X       red diamond on sleeve    
2 B 58 UBO Lieutenant X       Machine Gun Corps    
2 B 59 UBS X       1 Machine Gun Corps    
2 B 60 UBS X            
2 B 61 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 62 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 63 UBS X            
2 B 64 ROSS X S W 21-24-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment "C" Coy. 2nd/6th Bn. '240872'
2 B 65 KELLY X J 21-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '16303'
2 B 66 MOSS X R 21-24-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '202454'
2 B 67 UBS X       North Staffordshire Regiment    
2 B 68 UBS X            
2 B 69 UBS X            
2 B 70 UBS X            
2 B 71 UB Serjt = Pointon? X       North Staffordshire Regiment   200925?
2 B 72 UBS X            
2 B 73 PERKINS X T 21-24-03-18 Private North Staffordshire Regiment 2nd/6th Bn. '203154'
2 B 74 UBS X            
2 B 75 UBS X            
2 B 76 UBS X            
2 B 77 UBS X            
2 B 78 UBS X            
2 B 79 UBS X            
2 B 80 UBS X            
2 B 5A DETTMANN   F 23-03-18 Musketier German Army 2./R.Ers.R.1  
2 C 1 11 UGS         11 Unknown German Soldiers    
2 C 2 MATUSZCZAK   M 25-03-18 Musketier German Army 11./R.Ers.R.1  
2 C 3 SCHULZ   P 21-03-18 Musketier German Army 11./R.Ers.R.1  
2 C 4 LORENZEN   N 21-03-18 Musketier German Army 11./I.R.453  
2 C 5 ZIEGLER   P 21-03-18 Schuetze German Army 2.M.G.K./I.R.453  
2 C 6 KLESEN   J 22-03-18 Gefreiter German Army 2./R.Ers.R.1  
2 C 7 UGS         Unknown German Soldier    
  SM 1 RICHARDSON   W 13-04-18 Corporal West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 15th Bn. '43635'
      TOTAL 75            
Edited by laughton
updated table, some graves missing, linked to XLSX file

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LDT006
41 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

Brodest does appear in the ICRC lists https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2260788/698/29114/

 

Charlie

 

Yes but his reported burial location is different: Road to Bullecourt.

The 2 above him on that PA file are reported at that same location were concentrated to the H.A.C. CEMETERY, ECOUST-ST. MEIN:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/304233/royston,-/ 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/304174/parry,-arthur/ 

 

1 hour ago, laughton said:

So what do we do with this? This seems too obvious to be ignored. 

 

Here we have an official list sent to the ICRC with considerable "confirmable" details. 

 

I think that there are to many problems to just use the German list of 75 casualties.

As I said before:

2 from the German list were found in a different location

5 were identified and are not on the German list, one of these (Brodest) is listed by the Germans in a different massgrave.

It seems that the Germans mixed up the burial locations, there were much more casualties than these 75, the others were buried in the communal cemetery at Ecoust, others in mass graves in the area (most of these concentrated to the HAC Cemetery).

 

The CWGC docs list some of the unknows from the 75 that can not be found on the German list:

Ex: Grave 2B58: Unknown 2nd Lieut. MGC, can't find him on the PA list and not on CWGC.

 

 

doc1998252.JPG

 

Errors were made by the Germans and British but it might be possible to build a case for some individuals.

Just my opinion,

Luc.

 

 

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laughton
3 hours ago, LDT006 said:

The CWGC docs list some of the unknows from the 75 that can not be found on the German list:

Ex: Grave 2B58: Unknown 2nd Lieut. MGC, can't find him on the PA list and not on CWGC.

 

You never know, he might have been Australian  - how about Lt Reuben Parkes, 34th MGC? He was there, I know because R. Brookshaw was taken from the same unit on 21 March 1918 at Ecoust (ICRC Link). 

 

I was always taught "think outside the box!"

 

But you have a handle on this Luc, so I will leave it in your hands and I will go back to my other cases - it was a short but fun ride!

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LDT006

Found him:

 

Lieutenant HUTCHINSON, ANDREW LEVY
Died 21/03/1918, 7th Bn. Royal Scots attd. 31st Bn. Machine Gun Corps

 

The war diary of the 31st Bn. Machine Gun Corps confirms that they were there but it has almost no details, he is not listed as a casualty.

There's also the Second Lieutenant vs Lieutenant issue.

 

But he is the only one from the entire Machine Gun Corps without a known grave for that timeframe:

ACERS W B 24/03/1918 Private Machine Gun Corps   DOULLENS COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION NO.1
ACQUROFF A 22/03/1918 Serjeant Machine Gun Corps   LAPUGNOY MILITARY CEMETERY
CROOK H 23/03/1918 Private Machine Gun Corps   ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
JONES F 24/03/1918 Private Machine Gun Corps   ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
LOWNDES W J H 23/03/1918 Corporal Machine Gun Corps   ABBEVILLE COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
MORGAN E 24/03/1918 Serjeant Machine Gun Corps   MONT HUON MILITARY CEMETERY, LE TREPORT
McKENZIE A 24/03/1918 Serjeant Machine Gun Corps   ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
PICKETT F 20/03/1918 Private Machine Gun Corps   ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
POTTS R W 24/03/1918 Second Lieutenant Machine Gun Corps   DERNANCOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
PRITCHARD T B 23/03/1918 Private Machine Gun Corps   ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
SAUNDERS H V B 22/03/1918 Second Lieutenant Machine Gun Corps   SAILLY-LABOURSE COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
WEBB G 24/03/1918 Private Machine Gun Corps   ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
WENBORN H 24/03/1918 Second Lieutenant Machine Gun Corps   DERNANCOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
WILSON H F 21/03/1918 Second Lieutenant Machine Gun Corps   UNICORN CEMETERY, VENDHUILE
HILL C R G 20/03/1918 Private London Regiment Machine Gun Corps ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
HUTCHINSON A L 21/03/1918 Lieutenant Royal Scots Machine Gun Corps ARRAS MEMORIAL
JONES H W 24/03/1918 Lieutenant Royal Welsh Fusiliers Machine Gun Corps ROSIERES BRITISH CEMETERY
WOLFF G F 21/03/1918 Major Royal Welsh Fusiliers Machine Gun Corps RED CROSS CORNER CEMETERY, BEUGNY

 

There are 2 cards at ICRC but no PA files or more information:

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/15/01/C_G1_E_15_01_0046/C_G1_E_15_01_0046_2409_0.JPG/

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/15/01/C_G1_E_15_01_0046/C_G1_E_15_01_0046_2339_0.JPG/

 

 

Luc.

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Longton1971

I've missed all of these recent post, so thank you Richard, Luc et al for tidying it all up.

 

I did send the CWGC a piece of research suggesting that the body in grave B II.26 might be Lt. HR Smith.  This was back in December but have heard nothing as yet, apart from an acknowledgment.  I'm assuming that the delay is because there are so many cases for them to consider.  I wait in hope.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

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