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Gareth Davies

Beersheba

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gilly100

Interesting Tim. I am inclined to agree. In WA we often got told that all the 10th Light Horse embarked from Albany throughout the war, which of course was false.

The 10th LH have a lineage to the West Australian Mounted Infantry that served in South Africa in the Boer War. Their QSA's were engraved as such.

They certainly were trained to dismount their horses in sections of four, the nominated  horse handler taking control of the horses,  while the other three went forward dismounted in an infantry type role once dismounted. Rifles, infantry, pedantic, you know what I mean.

Ian

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Guest
1 hour ago, Gareth Davies said:

Was there a 'Beersheba' Battle Honour?

 

Edit. Not on the original list.... It was insignificant in the great scheme of things. Here are the Battles identfied by the Battlefield Nomenclature Committee that were recognised as Battle Honours for that part of the world. 

 

Rumani
Egypt 1915
Egypt 1915-16
Egypt 1915-17
Egypt 1916
Egypt 1916-17
Gaza *
Jordan
El Mughar
Nebi Samwil
Jaffa
Jerusalem
Jericho
Tell'Asur
Nablus
Megiddo
Sharon
Damascus
Palestine 1917 18
Palestine 1918

 

 

edit. Looks as if the Australians amended this to "Gaza-Beersheeba"

 

Edited by Guest

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gilly100

10th Australian Light Horse received "Gaza-Beersheba" battle honour.

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keithmroberts

It looks as if that was a interesting  Australian variant. The report of the Battle Nomenclature Committee is pretty clear.  Beersheba was covered by the 3rd Battle of Gaza according to my reprint of the report.

 

Keith

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Guest
3 minutes ago, keithmroberts said:

It looks as if that was a interesting  Australian variant. The report of the Battle Nomenclature Committee is pretty clear.  Beersheba was covered by the 3rd Battle of Gaza according to my reprint of the report.

 

Keith

 

There is definitely an Australian varaint as "Gaza-Beersheeba" appears on the Guidon of the 13th ALH...possibly a post was amendment (the British had a few) as the Committee originally had representatives from all the Dominions to agree the final list. I have the original reports if anyone needs verification. MG

 

4th_Light_Horse_Guidon.jpeg

Edited by Guest

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Gareth Davies

Thank you Martin and Keith.

 

 

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Guest

I known Col D has the OH, but for anyone else interested in exploring the details of the battle here is a link to an online version of the OH Vol 2 Part 1

 

https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.211976/2015.211976.History-Of#page/n69/mode/2up

 

The capture of Beersheb starts on page 69 on the file (page 44 of the book).

 

Here is the map showing the dispositioons of the Australians New Zealanders and British 

 

 

2015.211976.History-Of_0081.jp2&scale=2&

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gilly100

Another variant Jordan (Es Salt) , Es Salt being the addition. The South Africa 1899 -1902 was awarded due to the lineage of regiments over time. I think 10th LH were granted this one to put on their guidon in the 1950's according to one former commanding officer of the regiment.

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stevebecker

Mates,

 

Another comment given during these events was the charge faced 4000 Turks.

 

Clearly there were no 4000 Turks in front of the 4 LH Bde, not even 1000 or 500 but less then that possibly around 230 men?

 

They give our attacking forces as 800 LH men, which is close enough to the true number. The research I did shows that each Regt had around 500 men with them but allowing for those with the Admin tail (A Ech and such Drivers and Q staff) then around 800 to 900 LH men, even if you add numbers the 4th LH Bde staff including the Bde Scouts who joined the charge, around 900 + would be about right.

 

It appears that once the word of the advance was given soldiers came out of the wood work to get into it from all over the 4 LH Bde, which had missed most battles so far, other then the 11th and 12th LHR's who suffered heavy losses at 2nd Gaza.

 

I should have qualified my last comment, amoung the prisoners was a Turkish hosp which had around 100 sick & wounded in there so the whole unit had check the 1 LH Bde War Diary

 

claimed 11 officers 85 men captured

 

not to mention around 160 in the Field hosp

 

7 doctors + 1 Iman (priest)

65 med staff

 

5 WIA officers

63 WIA men

21 sick

 

The records say if it was a hosp possibly the town hosp in Beersheba?

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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aussiesoldier

Hi,

 

I fail to see how the 13th LHRegt can claim Gaza-Be'er Sheva as according to all that I have read they were division cavalry in France by June/July 1916? 

 

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gilly100

I think the photo Martin posted actually says 4th Light Horse. Did not a couple of squadrons of 4th LH get sent to France that were later absorbed into 13th LH?

There are two different colour patches on the guidon that seem to give a clue. 

Ian

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gilly100

George

After a quick google, 13th LH Western Front as you say following September 1915 arrival at Gallipoli. 4th LH after Gallipoli raised one extra squadron and it seems two went to France, hence battle honours for Western Front, Gallipoli and Middle East operations. I have no reference books with me here on this but AWM website helps to clarify. I think the two different colour patches represent those that served on Western Front and the others in Middle East. Am sure Steve can chime in here to correct me where wrong. 

Cheers

Ian

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aussiesoldier

Ian,

 

The plot thickens just a little. The War Memorial site lists Egypt 1915 - 17 on the battle honours of 13th yet its commentary says they became division cavalry before being reunited as 1 ANZAC cavalry regiment. Of interest also is that the colour patch of the 13th is a 'white on red' diamond, seemingly in keeping with 1 ANZAC yet the clour patch on the 4th's guidon has the rectangular. 

 

Yes, the 4th sent A and B squadrons to France with the four divisions.

 

I know, picky but I just love this stuff!

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gilly100

Nice one George

Can't help you much from here as I don't have any of these unit's books with me. Can't understand any reference to 1917 in Egypt for 13th LH unless some left behind in some sort of role there. Where are you Steve? Will have to leave this one to you George. Interested on the outcome.

Ian

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stevebecker

Mates,

 

Sorry been out.

 

Yes  B Sqn and D Sqn 4th LHR went to France to form with the Otago Mounted Regt, the 2nd Anzac LHR which was reformed into the 22nd Mounted Regt in Jan 1918 and late around Dec 1918, the 22nd MR was disbanded and formed into the 13 LHR.

 

The 13 LHR changed into the 1st Anzac LHR in 1916 but changed back to 13 LHR in Jan 1918. it was regrouped with the 4 LHR men when all Cavalry were formed into one unit in France Dec 1918.

 

That's the only reason I can think for the 13 LHR to have the Gaza - Beersheba battle honour?

 

A Turkish mate sent me these details on two of the doctors who remained with there wounded instead to retreating to be captured at Beersheba

 

Dr. Ali Rıza Bey (Gülelhekim) was Oberartz, chief physician, Başhekim of the hospital at Birüssebi. He was one of the POWs. Dr. Halit Bey (Akın) was also one of the doctors.
source: Prof. Dr. Metin Özata "Atatürk ve Hekimler" (Atatürk and doctors) İ;stanbul, 2015 p.216

 

Cheers


S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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gilly100

Thanks Steve. Interesting movements and mergers.

Ian

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Eran Tearosh

 

Just added a new thread about the Beersheba ANZAC 's Visitors Center:

 

Eran 

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Eran Tearosh

 

A good friend of mine from the U.S. is visiting here, and she asked me to take her on a tour of Great War sites south of Tel-Aviv, including Beersheba. 

 

All went great, but there were a few mishaps in Beersheba. We visited the Ottoman Railway Station and I noticed this sign - Note 1918:

1324795288_IMG_20181226_142908-1.jpg.2f56ea23c6e37c3f2698542231dc1da5.jpg

The same line in Hebrew is different: 

1918: First World War, The British captured Beersheba, together with the soldiers of the cavalry regiment from Australia and New-Zealand...

 

She visited the Anzac Visitors Center and came out frustrated, as she was badly mistreated by the guide there... After that, we walked around the cemetery and I found this official sign of the Beersheba Municipality, renewed lately, next to cemetery's fence:

1591377153_IMG_20181226_160908-1.jpg.ecbfb9a5998c5c9c21020ccdb1c144e2.jpg 

 

Again, there's a difference between the Hebrew and English version. In Hebrew, the caption is - The British Military Cemetery.

See for yourself what the caption in English says...

 

Eran

 

Edited by Eran Tearosh

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