Captain, Northumberland Fusiliers: Villers Hill British Cemetery 7.D.3

[laughton]

This appeared while researching the Essex Captain, in the same cemetery and very close (see here).

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Nothing found, but I did notice another Unknown Captain in the same area (one square up on the trench map 57c.X.19). In 7.D.3 COG-BR 2630909. A Northumberland Fusilier. He is not identified on the GRRF 2060445 either. Same for the HD-SCHD 2750652. Coincidentally, that is the same headstone list as our Essex Captain and both are changed as SOLDIER on the left and then CAPTAIN on the right - not sure what that means, but it looks like they are just standardizing the way the headstones are labelled. I will have to see if anyone has been looking for him to date (nothing for that cemetery on the CWGC list).

 

He was found at 57c.X.19.a.2.6 so very close to where the Essex Captain was recovered - perhaps suggesting this was a battlefield burial site for Officers - just a supposition at this time! This may shed some light on the other case, as one of the NF Captains was KIA in November 1917 as well and he is listed on the Arras Memorial, not the Cambrai Memorial. This area where that Captain was recovered is not in the Arras Sector, so I have to find out where he Captain Albert Edward Phelan was at the time. Important if he is listed on the Arras Memorial but was not in that sector.

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The memorial commemorates almost 35,000 servicemen from the United Kingdom, South Africa and New Zealand who died in the Arras sector between the spring of 1916 and 7 August 1918, the eve of the Advance to Victory, and have no known grave. The most conspicuous events of this period were the Arras offensive of April-May 1917, and the German attack in the spring of 1918. Canadian and Australian servicemen killed in these operations are commemorated by memorials at Vimy and Villers-Bretonneux. A separate memorial remembers those killed in the Battle of Cambrai in 1917.

 

Here are all the candidates:

 

BEATTIE-BROWN	WILLIAM	09-04-17	25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
MARTIN	DOUGLAS FRANCIS De RENZY	13-04-17	1st Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
SWINNEY	JAMES HERBERT CECIL	16-04-17	7th Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
QUIN	LESLIE WILLIAM WHITWORTH	24-04-17	3rd Bn. attd. 27th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
PASSINGHAM	EDWARD GEORGE	03-05-17	"Z" Coy. 1st Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
BUCKNALL	WALTER HARRY CORFIELD	03-05-17	2nd Bn. attd. 1st Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
STEWART	GEORGE	05-06-17	26th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
LAING	GERALD OGILVIE	05-06-17	20th (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
WILMOT	BEN	06-06-17	20th (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
EVANS	ALBERT AYLWARD	16-06-17	13th Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
PHELAN	ALBERT EDWARD	20-11-17	1st Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
GREGORY	THOMAS WILLIAM	22-03-18	"B" Coy. 4th Bn. attd. 16th Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
PARTINGTON	LEIGH	28-03-18	1st Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
LAWRENCE	EDWARD	28-03-18	10th Bn. attd. 1st Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
MILTON	EDWARD THOMAS	26-09-15	13th Bn.	LOOS MEMORIAL
AGNEW	GRAHAM	26-09-15	13th Bn.	LOOS MEMORIAL
JENKINS	WILLIAM EDWIN	01-10-15	2nd Bn.	LOOS MEMORIAL
DALLAS	RAYMOND VIVIAN LESLIE	13-04-18	9th (Northumberland Hussars) Bn.	LOOS MEMORIAL
DEEMING	FRANK TETLOW	21-03-18	12th Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
LEVIN	CHARLES NORTON	21-03-18	21st (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
LOCKIE	JAMES	22-03-18	12th/13th Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
FAWCUS	WALTER	25-03-18	19th Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
LEASK	JAMES CUNLIFFE	30-03-18	5th Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
GLEDSTONE	HERBERT REGINALD	25-05-18		POZIERES MEMORIAL
NORTH	NEVILLE MARIOTT	27-05-18	5th Bn.	SOISSONS MEMORIAL
TATE	JOHN MARTIN	27-05-18	14th Bn.	SOISSONS MEMORIAL
BENSON	JOHN MARTIN	27-05-18	4th Bn.	SOISSONS MEMORIAL
HILLS	ARTHUR EDWARD	28-05-18	"D" Coy. 14th Bn.	SOISSONS MEMORIAL
BURROWS	CHARLES SLESS	28-05-18	14th Bn.	SOISSONS MEMORIAL
CHARLTON	JOHN MACFARLAN	01-07-16	21st (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
MURRAY	PATRICK AUSTIN	01-07-16	25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
ROBERTSON	GEORGE	01-07-16	21st (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
YOUNG	ARTHUR CECIL	01-07-16	"A" Coy. 16th Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
FOLEY	JOHN	01-07-16	25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
FORSTER	JOHN PERCIVAL	01-07-16	22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
FALKOUS	ROBERT	01-07-16	30th (Tyneside Irish) Bn. attd. 27th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
BOLTON	HENRY ALBERT	01-07-16	23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
GRAHAM	PERCY GORDON	01-07-16	16th Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
HORNE	DAVID DOUGLAS	01-07-16	29th (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
LAING	DUDLEY OGILVIE	01-07-16	22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
MACKENZIE	KENNETH	01-07-16	24th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
NIXON	WILLIAM	01-07-16	20th (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
WHITE	STEWART ALEXANDER	03-07-16	21st (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
ROBINSON	PERCY DOUGLAS	07-07-16	9th Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
CONSTABLE	RALPH	25-09-16	10th Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
ROBINSON	JOHN WILFRED	15-11-16	4th Bn.	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Edited 27 October , 2017 by laughton
#1 edit;added Fusiliers to title of topic; #2 edit highlighted Captain Lockie for post below

[laughton]

A candidate has appeared, in the name of Captain James Lockie, 12th/13th Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers, KIA 22 March 1918. He is listed on the Pozieres Memorial. I have edited the post above to show him marked in red.

 

I suggest him as the most likely candidate given that the other two (2) NF men buried in the Villers Hill British Cemetery were both of the 12th/13th Battalion and he is the only Captain of that battalion in the above list. Captain Lockie is in near the exact burial location of Private Pease, both of whom were killed in the same 48 hour period in March 1918.

 

The CWGC has often taken the position that we MUST PROVE that it is not one of the other men on the list. This is critical here, as we do not have a battalion affiliation on the COG-BR document. If we knew it was the 12th/13th Battalion, then the case would be solved, and we would know that it was post amalgamation on 10 August 1917. I need to find out where each of the NF battalions listed above were located at those specific times when the Captains were lost. Unfortunately, I only have personal records for my grandfather's time in the 26th Northumberland Fusiliers (34th Division). Hopefully others in the GWF might have that information. In the meantime I will see what I can dig up on the web.

 

For the record, Captain Gledstone, listed above without a unit affiliation, was attached the 4th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment.

 

Note that Milbank's grave was lost from a German Cemetery. Interesting that both the other two were the same battalion but one was around the time of Operation Michael, the German Offensive of March 1918 and the other was 6 months later during the German attack at Cambrai in September 1918. The March and September burials, although in the same general area, are some 6,000 yards (3.5 miles) apart.

 

surname	initials	death	rank	unit	#	grave or memorial	prior burial
MILBANK	R	23-03-18	Private	12th/13th Bn.	'45099'	Special Memorial	Honnecourt German Cemetery
PEASE	W	21-03-18	Private	12th/13th Bn.	'47765'	IV. D. 20.	57c.X.19.a.1.1
THOMPSON	A E	18-09-18	Private	12th/13th Bn.	'66915'	III. A. 16.	57c.R.27.a.8.8

The Captain was found at 57c.X.19.a.2.6, in the same sector as Private Pease.

 

The burial locations noted above are linked to their COG-BR or memorial documents. Their names are linked to their page at the CWGC. This is also only one sector above where our UNKNOWN ESSEX CAPTAIN was found. Here they are shown on a trench map extract:

 

 

This is what the CWGC tells us about the Villers Hill British Cemetery and the applicable dates:

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Villers-Guislain was occupied by Commonwealth forces from April 1917 until the German counter attacks (in the Battle of Cambrai) at the end of November 1917. It was lost on 30 November and retained by the Germans on 1 December in spite of the fierce attacks of the Guards Division and tanks. The village was finally abandoned by the Germans on 30 September 1918, after heavy fighting. Villers Hill British Cemetery was begun (as the Middlesex Cemetery, Gloucester Road) by the 33rd Division Burial Officer on 3 October 1918, and used until the middle of October. 

 

[laughton]

In the other, now related topic, I just posted the following linkage:

 

Unknown Officer 12/13th Northumberland Fusiliers, Gouzeaucourt New British Cemetery

 

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I will need to also link that topic back to this one, as here we have a direct reference to the 12th/13th Battalion, which we can now couple with the other topic where we have direct evidence of the 12th/13th Battalion in this specific area. We reported there that the unknown Captain was found at 57c.X.19.a.2.6, in the same sector as Private Pease (KIA 21 March 1918) of the 12th/13th Battalion. The Captain and Private were found in Sector 57c.X.19 which is the immediate sector to the southeast of where this NF Officer was recovered at 57c.W.18.c.9.3. The two bodies of the NF OFFICERS were recovered less than 500 yards from each other.

 

 

 

[laughton]

I found some on-line information about Captain Phelan, who as noted above is mysteriously listed on the Arras Memorial.  See here:

http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/rollofhonour/People/Details/8956

 

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Military History

Served in University College, Nottingham Officer Training Corps under Captain Trotman. Originally enlisted into the Notts and Derbys somewhere between the 23rd and the 28th September 1914 as 17369 Private in D Company, 12th Battalion. He was then discharged for his commissioning into the Northumberland Fusiliers. Appointed Temporary Second Lieutenant 13th May 1915. Went overseas post 1915. Appointed Temporary Lieutenant 24th July 1916 and was awarded Military Cross New Year’s Honours List – No Citation 1st January 1917. He was wounded in the attack on trenches to the east of Monchy Le Preux 3rd May 1917. Appointed Acting Captain 30th October 1917. Killed in an attack on Bovis Trench, which faced Bullecourt, by W and X Companies 20th November 1917. During the advance on the trench both Lieutenant Phelan and Second Lieutenant Apps were killed. Although the attack was successful, the positions gained were lost later in the day when the Germans launched a successful counter attack. Mentioned in Dispatches (London Gazette 11th December 1917).

Extra Information

Served as Intelligence Officer, and later commanded X Company. In the Regimental History report of the attack it says ‘It was then that the need was felt for a commander like Phelan, whose courage, coolness and resource had in the course of two years of war proved him the perfect leader’ His death was mentioned in the Nottingham Post 26th November 1917

 

That explains why he was on the Arras Memorial, even though coincidentally, that was the first day of the Battle of Cambrai. He was at Bullecourt, almost due south of Vis-en-Artois, which is on the Arras-Cambrai road. I finally found Bovis Trench located in 51b.U.21.d and 51b.U.22.c. It is right on the Hindenburg Line, to the left of Bulldog Trench (larger print). That counts him out of this evaluation, and yes, he is correctly listed on the Arras Memorial.

[laughton]

Now that I have access to the War Diaries on Ance$try I can check the other NKG Northumberland Fusilier Captains to see if any others were in the same area as Lockie in March 1918 during the retreat from Operation Michael.

 

surname	forename	death	unit	memorial
DEEMING	FRANK TETLOW	21-03-18	12th Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
LEVIN	CHARLES NORTON	21-03-18	21st (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
GREGORY	THOMAS WILLIAM	22-03-18	"B" Coy. 4th Bn. attd. 16th Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
LOCKIE	JAMES	22-03-18	12th/13th Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
FAWCUS	WALTER	25-03-18	19th Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL
PARTINGTON	LEIGH	28-03-18	1st Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
LAWRENCE	EDWARD	28-03-18	10th Bn. attd. 1st Bn.	ARRAS MEMORIAL
LEASK	JAMES CUNLIFFE	30-03-18	5th Bn.	POZIERES MEMORIAL

 

As luck would have it, they are all in different battalions. I will need to check them one-at-a-time and return to "edit" and add the details, as previously completed for the Unknown Essex Captain. Eventually, all the Captains would need to be checked to make sure they were not here at a different time. If, however, there is more than one (1) Candidate Captain in the shortlist above, then the case is a "NO GO" and there is no reason to check the other Captains.

 

The post will be edited to add in the details below:

 

Remember, looking for someone near Sector 57c.X.19.

 

PARTINGTON, LEIGH 28-03-18 1st Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL

• in the line and must be near Monchiet (page 612 of 736), where the marched back to (my TMC 51c.Q.21)
• that suggests they were in the vicinity of Arras, thus the Arras Memorial
• that takes him off the list, however there is no mention of the casualties in the war diary
   

LAWRENCE, EDWARD 28-03-18 10th Bn. attd. 1st Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL

• see above for Partington, also 1st Bn.
• that takes him off the list as well

 

LEASK, JAMES CUNLIFFE 30-03-18 5th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL

• the information below is for the 1/5th Battalion, as listed in 149th Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division in war diary
  • at Merville-Au-Bois (page 284 of 324) TMC 66eSE
  • well out of the area but not listed as a casualty with Lt. L. W. Howard (wounded)
• the 2/5th was disbanded in England in December 1917
• the 3/5th was a reserve battalion
• as such, it is not clear which battalion he was with nor where he was at the time of his death
• in order to eliminate LEASK, we need to know if he was with the 1st/5th Battalion or elsewhere 
   

LOCKIE, JAMES 22-03-18 12th/13th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL (attached 2nd Bn Lincolnshire Regiment - missed that at first!)

• back to the question as to whether an "Attached Officer" continues to wear the insignia of his original unit 
• the war diary pages are out-of-order: go to the 19th (page 7 of 155)
• appears they are in position at the YELLOW LINE (that is a new one for me!) in 57c.W.23 central, 1,500 yards west of remains
• some battalion components closer in 57c.W.18, facing repeated enemy attacks
• on 22 March 1918, orders to retire to Heudicourt but the enemy had penetrated the line at Epehy (62c.F.1)
• list of casualties 21 March 1918 to 2 April 1918 (page 18 of 155) and so appears LOCKIE as "wounded and missing", not dead
• I.C.R.C. has him listed (see here), suggesting negative response from enemy as of 24 April 1918 but family has a letter that he is a POW on 3 June 1918
• extra: this card explains the use of the ICRC terms as it has him "2nd Linc. Rgt. (late 12th North'd Fus)", so the opposite of "attached"
• we have a number of other regimental officers missing and in the area along the rail line that goes north from Epehy through 57c.X.19 - so starting to look like there was a German camp or cemetery in that area!
• perhaps the OFFICER FILE will reveal if there is a letter from the family confirming he was a POW and where he was located, as if the letter to the family was in June - who sent it? Was he still alive in June 1918 or was the letter from another POW?
• for now, he remains on the list
   

DEEMING, FRANK TETLOW 21-03-18 12th Bn. (must be 12th/13th Bn.) POZIERES MEMORIAL

• the last part of February spent in training, prior to going to Villers Faucon to relieve the 6th Connaught Rangers, H.Q. in Ronssoy (62c.F.21)
• specifics of the relief are in Operational Order No. 54 (page 129 of 211)
• the map/sketch places them in 57c.W.18 and 57c.X.13, immediately north of where the remains were recovered (page 130 of 211) near Vaucellette Farm
• start March 1918 in the trenches at Heudicourt 57c.W.21, which places the battalion 4,000 yards west of the remains
• relieved the 1st Lincolnshire Regiment on the 12th, there were a few raids into enemy territory, then the enemy attack on the 21st
• enemy attack reported on 21st, with rear guard actions from 22nd to 25th (page 133 of 211)
• Captain Deeming was reported as a casualty in the action from the 22nd to 25th (page 133 of 211)
• he is on the list
   

GREGORY, THOMAS WILLIAM 22-03-18 "B" Coy. 4th Bn. attd. 16th (Service) Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL

• 96th Brigade, 32nd Division, LLT suggests disbanded in Belgium in February 1918  
• can't research him further until we find out where he went
   

FAWCUS, WALTER 25-03-18 19th (Service) Bn. (Divisional Troops, 2nd Tyneside Pioneers) POZIERES MEMORIAL

• the only officer reported KIA in operations from 25th to 30th March 1918 (page 642 of 1000)
• in the vicinity of Montauban (my TMC 57c.S.27), refers to report of actions attached (page 643 of 1000)
• Bernafy Wood at 57c.S.28 on 25th, so about 26,000 yards west of where the remains were found
• they may have been further south at Telus Buise 62c.A.9.c ? (page 657 of 1000) or A.22 (page 663 of 1000)
• he is off the list

 

LEVIN, CHARLES NORTON 21-03-18 21st (2nd Tyneside Scottish) Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL (attached 102nd Light Trench Mortar Battery)

• another one that was "attached" and so again the question, what insignia would he be wearing?
• if I have this correct from the LLT, he is in the 102nd Brigade (Tyneside Scottish), 34th Division - at least I have that history, same Division as my grandfather
• the 102nd Brigade is reported at Croisilles (my TMC 51b.T.23) (34th History page 190) and near the Sensee River leading to St. Leger, to the south
• they are well out of the area and LEVIN is off the list
• For closure, Narrative of Events in the war diary for 21 March 1918 (page 3 of 132), in the southern area of Map 51b
• casualties for the 102nd L.T.M.B. shows NO Officers Killed in March 1918 but 1 wounded and 1 missing (page 7 of 132)
• LEVIN does have an ICRC card but he is shown only as missing and a "negatif envoye"
• I would suggest we can take that to mean he is the Missing Officer and that he was missing and killed
• the daily war diary confirms the location and moves during the day (page 9 of 132) (page 26 of 132)

We thus have the following remaining on the list of candidates, which renders this case "closed" unless we can find additional information:

 

1. LOCKIE, JAMES 22-03-18 12th/13th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL (attached 2nd Bn Lincolnshire Regiment - missed that at first!)
2. DEEMING, FRANK TETLOW 21-03-18 12th Bn. (must be 12th/13th Bn.) POZIERES MEMORIAL

 

The OFFICERS FILE on Lockie may reveal if there is more information about him being a prisoner and thus where he was when he died.

 

These ones are uncertain as insufficient information is available:

 

1. LEASK, JAMES CUNLIFFE 30-03-18 5th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL
2. GREGORY, THOMAS WILLIAM 22-03-18 "B" Coy. 4th Bn. attd. 16th (Service) Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL

 

 

 

Edited 25 February , 2018 by laughton
completed with available information - need to find Leask and Gregory

[laughton]

Related to this topic, only noticed it today while looking at the 12th/13th linkage for the Captain. All the known NF in this cemetery are from the 12th/13th NF, two (2) in March 1918 and one (1) in September 1918. So they too returned to the same area (CWGC Link).

 

The NF Captain is in 7.D.3 and there is a UBS NF beside him in 7.D.2. That fellow had a linkage to the 3rd Battalion (LLT - 3rd [Reserve] Battalion) with a service number 7016.

 

Turns out that Lance Corporal Joseph Nott #7016 of the 12th/13th NF is missing at the same time (28 March 1918). His Medal Card Index does not tell us if he was initially 3rd Battalion, however I do remember from researching my grandfather (26th NF) that someone had done a lot of work on the service numbers associated with the various battalions. I don't think it was John Sheen @Tyneside Chinaman , but I am sure he would know who it was? Possibly Graham Stewart @Graham Stewart as I recall he made the database? Found the link to the topic here (Northumberland Fusiliers Numbering). That did not lead me to a list .

 

Interestingly there are 190 3rd Battalion NF listed on the CWGC Database. I was looking at that to see if it encapsulated that number range, some possibility. Some like Wood 8979 are listed on their MIC as 3/8979 but others like Lee as 38257 was initially 4/3974. As I am sure Graham will say "all very confusing"! Within that list there are 3rd Bn with the 6000 series numbers and 8000 series but none in the 7000 (no deaths). Problem is with that approach, they also appear in that range in other battalions. Need the experts here.

 

There is also a reference to an R. West of the Royal Garrison Artillery. There are three (3) Richard West's and six (6) Robert West's in the RGA on the MRIC.

 

[Graham Stewart]

As always nothing is simple when it becomes to numbering and in this case 7016 L/Cpl Joseph Nott had originally served with the 10th Bn, N.F., before being posted to the 24th Bn; 24/27th Bn; 14th Bn and finally 12/13th Bn. However it is quite possible that he may have been a Reservist, as the number he has was infact first issued in 1900, but I have my doubts about this, as by September 1914, the new 7000 series was being issued among those early War time Volunteers.

 

The person numbered 3/7016 was infact Sgt Joseph Holmes, who also served with the 10th Bn, before being transferred to the N.F. Depot.

 

As for 4/3947 James Lee - he was one of many from the Territorial Bns, who on being sent overseas to join N.F.(T.F.) Bns, were diverted to Battalions of the Tyneside Scottish after 1st July 1916 and as such under the numbering rules at that time, had to be renumbered and he became 38257.

[laughton]

On 23/02/2018 at 12:09, laughton said:

DEEMING, FRANK TETLOW 21-03-18 12th Bn. (must be 12th/13th Bn.) POZIERES MEMORIAL

 

The following was on the web site for the "Littleborough's History". It does not impact on the case but it tells us a bit about one of the men:

Quote

Captain Frank Tetlow Deeming

Frank was born in Littleborough in 1893 and 3 years later was living with his parents William and Mary at 1 Prospect View together with his 3 sisters and a brother. His father was shown as a Sanitary Tube Manufacturer with Frank, through his mother, being the grandson of John Tetlow, Sanitary Tube and Firebrick Manufacturer, Punch Bowl Lock, Summit. Later, Frank was a prominent member of the Temple Methodist Chapel in Summit, a member of Littleborough Cricket Club. Frank enlisted whilst engaged in the office of the Gale Print Works in February 1915 (as a private) in the Public School Battalion, he was gazetted in 1916 as a 2nd Lieutenant 3rd Bn Lancashire Fusiliers. In August 1917 he married Miss Gladys Clegg of Frankfort Terrace, Halifax Road.  Weekending Saturday 13th April 1918 it was reported that 25 year old Captain Frank Tetlow Deeming, 12th Batt Northumberland Fusiliers was missing after an engagement on 21st March 1918. Captain Deeming's was presumed killed on 21st March 1918 and his name can be found on Littleborough Cenotaph, Littleborough Central School War Memorial (now relocated in Littleborough’s History Centre) and on the Pozieres Memorial. The Rochdale Observer of 21st September 1918 confirmed that he was now presumed killed. A sentiment was included in the Roll of Honour by his wife Gladys of 24 Halifax Road. The 10th October 1918 edition reported that a memorial service was held in the Temple Summit Wesleyan Church, Summit on Sunday evening.

 

The key to separating Captain Tetlow from Captain Lockie rests with two issues:

1. Would have Captain Lockie, who was attached to the 2nd Bn Lincolnshire Regiment still be wearing the numerals (or other such identifying marks) of the Northumberland Fusiliers? My understanding is that the answer to that question is YES. If the answer was NO then it can't be Captain Lockie. If the answer is MAYBE, that won't allow separation of the two Captains.
    
2. The ICRC document says that the family got word that he was a prisoner, as detailed in a letter of June 1918. There had been no prior report that he was a prisoner back in April 1918. The ICRC says "negatif envoye" which I take to mean "negative sent", as in either no he was not a prisoner or no there is no further information. The answer may lie in his Officer's File which may have some reference to the June 1918 letter to the family. I am sure they would have sent that to the authorities and asked for further action.

[Dave Nott]

On 07/12/2018 at 12:28, laughton said:

Related to this topic, only noticed it today while looking at the 12th/13th linkage for the Captain. All the known NF in this cemetery are from the 12th/13th NF, two (2) in March 1918 and one (1) in September 1918. So they too returned to the same area (CWGC Link).

 

The NF Captain is in 7.D.3 and there is a UBS NF beside him in 7.D.2. That fellow had a linkage to the 3rd Battalion (LLT - 3rd [Reserve] Battalion) with a service number 7016.

 

Turns out that Lance Corporal Joseph Nott #7016 of the 12th/13th NF is missing at the same time (28 March 1918). His Medal Card Index does not tell us if he was initially 3rd Battalion, however I do remember from researching my grandfather (26th NF) that someone had done a lot of work on the service numbers associated with the various battalions. I don't think it was John Sheen @Tyneside Chinaman , but I am sure he would know who it was? Possibly Graham Stewart @Graham Stewart as I recall he made the database? Found the link to the topic here (Northumberland Fusiliers Numbering). That did not lead me to a list .

 

Interestingly there are 190 3rd Battalion NF listed on the CWGC Database. I was looking at that to see if it encapsulated that number range, some possibility. Some like Wood 8979 are listed on their MIC as 3/8979 but others like Lee as 38257 was initially 4/3974. As I am sure Graham will say "all very confusing"! Within that list there are 3rd Bn with the 6000 series numbers and 8000 series but none in the 7000 (no deaths). Problem is with that approach, they also appear in that range in other battalions. Need the experts here.

 

There is also a reference to an R. West of the Royal Garrison Artillery. There are three (3) Richard West's and six (6) Robert West's in the RGA on the MRIC.

 

Joeseph Nott 7016 Lance Corporal was my great uncle. Wounded in 1916 prior to being KIA March 1918. Been trying to piece together his movements for some time. I believe he was in A Coy at the time of his death, but have no further info.

[Gunner 87]

17 hours ago, Dave Nott said:

Joeseph Nott 7016 Lance Corporal was my great uncle. Wounded in 1916 prior to being KIA March 1918. Been trying to piece together his movements for some time. I believe he was in A Coy at the time of his death, but have no further info.

Hi Dave. Find My Past hold the 'Admission and Discharge Book' for No34 Casualty Clearing Station based at Vecquemont which records Joseph, serving with 'A' Company, 10th Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers, being admitted with a Gun Shot Wound to his thigh and buttock on the 27/07/16.. Joseph was transferred on the same day but it does not sited to where. 

Forces War Records note that in the observations column No.26 Ambulance Train is listed. 

The National Archives hold the 10th Northumberland Fusiliers War Diary, free to download when registered, for the period of 01/08/15 - 31/10/17 which may record the actions 'A' Company were involved in at the time, or just prior to, Joseph being wounded at this link https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353255

I have attached the relevant part of the Medal Roll for Joseph's Victory Medal and British War Medal which records the battalions he served with. This could be useful if you were looking to view the relevant War Diary to see where Joseph was deployed since earning his 1914-1915 Star qualified for on the 25/08/15 being the date of disembarkation in France. 

Edited 4 November , 2022 by Gunner 87

[Gunner 87]

Dave. it appears Joseph was serving with the 12/13th Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers at the time of his death. The War Diary, 01/08/17-30/04/19, records the unit defending the village of Ribemont on the 28/03/18 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353161

[Dave Nott]

Thank you for this information, every little piece helps putting the jigsaw together, especially coming up to Remembrance Day.  Thank you.