laughton Posted 16 October , 2017 Share Posted 16 October , 2017 (edited) I was checking on a missing Canadian in the Ovillers Military Cemetery and I noticed this Second Lieutenant with the initials "E.C." (unless he was wearing someone else's underclothing) in Plot 11 Row Z Grave 1. I made a list of the missing from this regiment and there is only one (1) with those initials. As he is listed on the Thiepval Memorial for September 1916, he was probably in the correct location to be found buried together in a shell hole at 57c.M.29.b.7.3. That places him to the northeast of Martinpuich, just south of the Eaucourt Abbaye. Gueudecourt and Flers is to the southeast and Sars to the northwest. I think we have been here before at Factory Corner. The only candidate with the correct initials is 2nd Lieutenant Ernest Lockett Cole, KIA 27 September 1916, 8th Bn. attached to 1st Bn., Northamptonshire Regiment. The question now becomes, was he in that area on 27 September 1916? Much easier to answer here in Canada where we have free on-line access to all the war diaries. Can a Pal assist in that regard? The timeline suggests this is the Battle of Morval 25-28 September 1916, breaking out and heading to Gueudecourt and Le Transloy? surname forename death unit memorial CLOSE WILLIAM COLLINS 20-03-17 3rd Bn. attd. 6th Bn. ARRAS MEMORIAL BELDING CLARE 11-03-15 1st Bn. attd. 2nd Bn. LE TOURET MEMORIAL LEES PERCY BERESFORD 11-03-15 3rd Bn. attd. 2nd Bn. LE TOURET MEMORIAL MATTHEWS EDWARD ALEXANDER 10-03-15 3rd Bn. attd. 2nd Bn. LE TOURET MEMORIAL NELLES NORMAN CUMMINGS 29-01-15 1st Bn. LE TOURET MEMORIAL THOMPSON HAROLD 09-05-15 3rd Bn. attd. 1st Bn. LE TOURET MEMORIAL TYRRELL JOSEPH LIONEL ALLANSON 02-03-16 "A" Coy. 8th Bn. attd. 5th Bn. LOOS MEMORIAL HALL WILLIAM HINGSTON 05-04-18 6th Bn POZIERES MEMORIAL THOMAS ARTHUR LEWIS 24-04-18 3rd Bn. attd. 2nd Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL BOSTOCK ERIC NORMAN 27-05-18 2nd Bn. SOISSONS MEMORIAL HALL ROBERT LANE 27-05-18 2nd Bn. SOISSONS MEMORIAL ALMACK ALFRED CHRISTOPHER TURNOUR 27-09-16 3rd Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL BEALE NORMAN STUART CHARLES 18-08-16 7th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL COLE ERNEST LOCKETT 27-09-16 8th Bn. attd. 1st Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL COOPER GEORGE SPENCER 17-02-17 6th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL FARRELL REGINALD 14-07-16 6th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL FARRIMOND JOSEPH 21-07-16 8th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL HAMILTON NOEL CRAWFORD 14-07-16 6th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL HAYWARD HERBERT WILLIAM 26-09-16 8th Bn. attd. 6th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL HIGHAM PERCY HARROWELL 17-02-17 6th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL JARVIS FREDERICK CHARLES 07-07-16 2nd Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL LEA MAURICE BERTRAM 18-08-16 7th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL LIDINGTON NORMAN HERBERT 15-09-16 1st. Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL LLOYD HERBERT 18-08-16 7th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL LYS FRANCIS GEORGE BRYAN 14-07-16 6th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL PAGE ALFRED CECIL DUDLEY 18-08-16 7th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL SCALES PATRICK JOSEPH 17-02-17 6th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL WOULFE GERALD LASCELLES 14-07-16 6th Bn. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL BALLARD FRANK WATSON 11-10-18 3rd Bn. attd. 1st Bn. VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL BOAL WILLIAM WAINHOUSE 10-10-18 7th Bn. VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL Edited 13 November , 2017 by laughton getting report ready, noticed a typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 October , 2017 Share Posted 16 October , 2017 (edited) War diary describes the original location only as "south of High Wood". They move up to Flers (no further description) and "attack across the open between O.G. 1 & 2 with a view to taking a further portion of O.G. 1. " Diary does mention him KIA. Edited 16 October , 2017 by John_Hartley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 16 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2017 (edited) Thanks John! That puts him close, but not in the same location. Now I have to see if the group that was all buried in that shell hole were taken there and buried, versus "buried where they fell". I noted you added more information about them moving up to Flers, so that would be to 57c.N.31, so they are moving in the northeasterly direction where the remains were found. There were men of the "Buffs" and the "19/Londons" in the same shell hole, so perhaps we can use that information to determine if the remains were in a selected burial location? Edited 16 October , 2017 by laughton updated after John's update on movmement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 October , 2017 Share Posted 16 October , 2017 Go for it- the evidence of the first GRU report ought to be compelling-as it is so firm. Your evidence is clear. Also- Ernest Cole is the only 2Lt of the Northants with a first initial "E" lost during the whole war. That the indicators were not there in the second GRU is no surprise-another 3 years in the ground from the first report. And I would take a flying guess that the initial shell-hole was on chalk,while the concentration grave was on clay- which might explain the disappearance of marks of rank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 October , 2017 Share Posted 16 October , 2017 1 hour ago, laughton said: There were men of the "Buffs" and the "19/Londons" in the same shell hole Only "C" Company attacked and they were under the command of 2/KRRC. "B" seems to have been held in support also under the command of 2/KRRC. "D" was under the command of 2/Royal Sussex and "A" was on bomb carrying duties. As you know, forum rules prevent me posting a shot of the diary page from Ancestry but the wording is such that Cole's death immediately follows the brief description of the "C" Coy attack so I would be reasonably confdent he was with them, or wherever "B" was held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 24 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2017 Just to make sure NOTHING is missed here, we do have others with the FIRST initial "E", but he is the only one missing in France with the "E" and the "C": MACE E Second Lieutenant 4th Bn. Belgium TYNE COT CEMETERY BOWN E E E Second Lieutenant 1st/4th Bn. Israel and Palestine (including Gaza) GAZA WAR CEMETERY MASON EDWARD E Second Lieutenant 3rd Bn. attd. 2nd Bn. Belgium PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL MATTHEWS EDWARD ALEXANDER E A Second Lieutenant 3rd Bn. attd. 2nd Bn. France LE TOURET MEMORIAL COLE ERNEST LOCKETT E L Second Lieutenant 8th Bn. attd. 1st Bn. France THIEPVAL MEMORIAL BOSTOCK ERIC NORMAN E N Second Lieutenant 2nd Bn. France SOISSONS MEMORIAL SYFRET EDWARD TRISTRAM SMYTH E T S Second Lieutenant 3rd Bn. attd. 1st Bn. France HEILLY STATION CEMETERY, MERICOURT-L'ABBE If the CWGC questioned about his rank, there are no LIEUTENANTS that meet the criteria: BADCOCK EDMUND DOWNES E D Lieutenant 1st Bn. France THIEPVAL MEMORIAL LAW EDGAR FELIX E F Lieutenant 6th Bn. France POZIERES MEMORIAL PALMER E G Lieutenant 3rd Bn. attd. 2nd Bn. France FINS NEW BRITISH CEMETERY, SOREL-LE-GRAND JACQUES E W R Lieutenant 1st Bn. France BAZENTIN-LE-PETIT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION If we consider the first initial "E", then we also have to eliminate any that might be "Edward" listed as "Ted", and there are none in the "T" category: (can anyone think of other "E" names that might be something other than "Ted"? - none here) WARD THOMAS PILLANS T P Lieutenant 7th Bn. Belgium YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL MYERS THOMAS WRIGHTSON T W Lieutenant 1st Bn. Belgium DOZINGHEM MILITARY CEMETERY WILLIAMS THOMAS WODEHOUSE T W Lieutenant 3rd Bn. France LE TOURET MEMORIAL LITCHFIELD THOMAS T Second Lieutenant "B" Coy. 7th Bn. Belgium YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL FREEMAN TOM T Second Lieutenant 6th Bn. France REGINA TRENCH CEMETERY, GRANDCOURT HARTIGAN THOMAS JEROME T J Second Lieutenant 8th Bn. attd. 7th Bn. France DELVILLE WOOD CEMETERY, LONGUEVAL We should also eliminate any that might be "C E" instead of "E C" and that gives us: BORROW CYRIL ERNEST C E Lieutenant United Kingdom MARKET HARBOROUGH (NORTHAMPTON ROAD) CEMETERY WILSON CHARLES EDWARD C E Second Lieutenant 1st Bn. France BAZENTIN-LE-PETIT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION I think that covers all the bases for the initials. This will still need someone who can provide an extract of the war diary to show they were in that location. I understand John's point about the image, so I would need the exact text and a reference document. The CWGC are fussy about having the documents, so we need to find a way around this issue. The rules are obviously different in the UK than they are here in Canada, so I don't want to step on anyone's toes. If anyone has any other ideas as to how to get some additional confirmation, that would be appreciated. I generally view it as important to have confirmation information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 24 October , 2017 Share Posted 24 October , 2017 1 hour ago, laughton said: If anyone has any other ideas as to how to get some additional confirmation, that would be appreciated. I generally view it as important to have confirmation information. I will check the officer files at Kew for Borrow and Wilson next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 24 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2017 (edited) I am only concerned about those that have NO KNOWN grave, so Borrow and Wilson are exempt. My fault for lack of clarification. Sorry! Edited 24 October , 2017 by laughton inability to type without hitting enter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 31 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 31 October , 2017 I was able to get a better handle on what was happening through this document on Archive.org: History of the Great War: Military Operations (Text) History of the Great War: Military Operations (Maps and Appendices) Not being a great student of the British Army, I have to do some basic research so I can tie that in with what was happening with our Canadian boys, of which we know a lot more. This does assist in providing evidence that our Second Lieutenant with the initials "E.C." was in the area where the remains were located. It would be better to show that he passed through those specific coordinates (57c.M.29.b.7.3) but I do not have that detail at this time. I was able to locate the Starfish and Prue Trench and match that to what was in the Official History (page 352 - document linked above), where they note that patrols were heading north to the area of Eaucourt l'Abbaye. I was specifically looking for the area that John mention in his post above: Quote "attack across the open between O.G. 1 & 2 with a view to taking a further portion of O.G. 1. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 24 November , 2017 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2017 (edited) I finally "bit the bullet" and expanded my Ancestry subscription from "Canada" to "World". Many of these cases just could not go forward with out access to the War Diaries and this is the only way for us on the "other side of the pond". Sadly, now we have to pay to find British Unknowns, a benefit that is free for us to find Canadians. I was able to assemble this for the report, which is now in draft format. These are sections 6, 7 and 8: Quote 6. The war diary of the 1st Battalion Northamptonshire Regiment notes that on 26 September 1916 the unit is in a Reserve Position south of High Wood (Attachment #6). All available men were digging out DROP, STARFISH and CORK Alleys. On the 27th, “A” Coy was working on the trenches, while “B” and “C” Coys moved up to the Flers line and are placed at the disposal of the 2/K.R.R., where the “C” Coy bombers of the Northants making a bombing attack. The attack was unsuccessful and 2nd Lieutenant E. Cole was reported killed. 7. A cross reference to the war diary of the 2nd Battalion King’s Royal Rifle Corps provides further details on their position and the subsequent action when the Northamptonshire Regiment was attached (Attachment #7). On 25 September 1916 they moved to the newly taken trenches at Eaucourt l’Abbaye (see item 3 above). It was here that the first of three (3) bombing attacks would be launched (see item 6 above). On the 25th, 26th and 27th. The unit lost 25 men during those attacks, 22 of which are on the Thiepval Memorial. The actions of the K.R.R., to which the Northants were serving, allow for the placement of Lt. Cole directly in the area where the remains were recovered. 8. The historical references for the action (Somme: The Battle of Morval) also confirm that the British Army was active in this specific area at that time (Attachment #8). The ORBAT (Order of Battle) shows the 1st Battalion Northamptonshire Regiment was in the 2nd Brigade, 1st Division, III Corps (Pultney), and 4th Army (Rawlinson). A period sketch of the area names all the locations in the text (also highlighted in red text), including: The Star Fish, The Cough Drop, Drop Alley and Goose Alley. All of these are on the approach to the Eaucourt l’Abbaye, the direction in which the patrols were reported heading. On 25 September 1916 (page 382) III Corps were ordered to gain as much ground as possible by pushing patrols forward west of the Factory Corner – Ligny Road, preparatory to carrying out their advance northward on both sides of Eaucourt l’Abbaye. This would place Lt. Cole directly in the area where the remains were later recovered. The final point (Attachment #8) is linked to the Ancestry document. As best I can tell from reading the copyright guidelines, at the GWF and ANCESTRY, you can insert a link such as this as anyone who accesses that link is a subscribed member. They have to be logged in to their account, or will be asked to log in to view the document. This will enable us to share the links, without subscribed members having to go back and look for the specific page. I would appreciate it if the Moderators could confirm that this is acceptable. Edited 24 November , 2017 by laughton Test of Ancestry Link and approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 26 November , 2017 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2017 I have modified Section 6 of the report slightly to state the exact wording of the war diary, so it now reads: 6. The war diary of the 1st Battalion Northamptonshire Regiment notes that on 26 September 1916 the unit is in a Reserve Position south of High Wood (Attachment #6). All available men were digging out DROP, STARFISH and CORK Alleys. On the 27th, “A” Coy was working on the trenches, while “B” and “C” Coys moved up to the Flers line and are placed at the disposal of the 2/K.R.R., where the “C” Coy bombers of the Northants making a bombing attack. The war diary specifically reports:“There was no effective artillery preparation; the German trenches were strongly defended; the attack was unsuccessful. 2/Lt E. Cole killed, 2/Lt R. W. Gates wounded, about 30 O.R. killed and wounded”. The report, with the attachments is now complete. If you have participated in this analysis - through review or provision of information, then you can have your name added to the report in the final attachment (in this case Attachment #8). It is my policy that I name all that participate and wish to be named and exclude any that "do not" wish to be named, even if they participated. To be included, all I need you to do is to PM me with your real name, affiliation and e-mail address. The intent is that the CWGC can then contact you as needed. Once I have that information, I will send you a PDF of the full report or a link where it can be downloaded. Any comments, corrections or criticism are not only most welcome, but expected. Tim McTague generally reviews all my final reports, he has the literary capability that a researcher like myself often lacks! Here is the attachment with the standard wording: ATTACHMENT #8 This “Reporting and Review” attachment is provided to assist all parties in the submission of an investigative report related to the identification of the burial location, or headstone markings, of a member of the Commonwealth Forces during the Great War 1914-1921.The Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) receives a copy of this report in the event they wish to make changes to the commemoration details. In order to alter the records, the CWGC has set out their criteria for the procedure and submission of cases for review, as detailed below. The CWGC is under no obligation to make changes based on a report. This process differs from cases related to members of the Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF) as these do not go first to the CWGC Canadian Agency in Ottawa. We have modified the requirement information noted below to include CWGC criteria from their source material: Guideline Criteria for Submission: Cases need to present clear and convincing evidence to prove the identity of a casualty and must not be based on assumption or speculation. The Commission's Commemoration Team will also consider whether the findings of a better informed contemporary investigation are being revisited and if there is any new evidence to consider. By way of example, it is unlikely that the Commission would support a revision of the arrangements for the commemoration where it is apparent that no new evidence is being presented and, a better informed previous decision is being revisited some 100 years later. Evidence and Source Material: Un-cited resources cannot be accepted as official evidence. Research conducted on the internet will only be accepted if supplied by a recognised authority such as the CWGC, National Archives etc. Any primary (contemporary) sources e.g. the National Archives, CWGC, and Genealogical website original documentation etc. must be copied and submitted with the case. The relevant pages of any secondary material e.g. published reference books and articles; website material etc. should also be copied and submitted. All sources must be correctly referenced as footnotes throughout the submission as well as cited in a complete bibliography of consulted sources Referencing is essential to any historical research and should contain some uniform elements. The following have participated in the preparation, review and submission of this report on a voluntary basis. Those noted below have read the investigative report and compared it to the criteria set out by the CWGC, as a guiding principle, and have agreed to have their name included as part of the review team. The CWGC may contact any of the reviewers at the e-mail address provided below. Name Affiliation E-mail Contribution Richard Laughton Canada Private Researcher LMC Great War Research Company rlaughton@laughton.ca Investigator & Report Author Timothy McTague Private Researcher Rhode Island USA timmct@verizon.net Report Reviewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sommeinfoplease Posted 22 January , 2022 Share Posted 22 January , 2022 Good evening, I came across this post after purchasing something for my father from eBay. I managed to buy a death penny, a penny that belonged to 2Lt Ernest Cole. Who is mentioned above. Can anyone tell me the best online resources to gain some knowledge on him and ideally a photo! Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 22 January , 2022 Admin Share Posted 22 January , 2022 Welcome to the forum. As always, a read of the excellent advice on the Long Long Trail website is the place to start. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/how-to-find-an-officers-service-reord/ For a photo, the best bet is local papers, but for officers, sometimes the archivist at their school can help. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 January , 2022 Share Posted 22 January , 2022 SECOND LIEUTENANT ERNEST LOCKETT COLE Regiment & Unit/Ship Northamptonshire Regiment 8th Bn. attd. 1st Bn. Date of Death Died 27 September 1916 Age 30 years old Buried or commemorated at THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Pier and Face 11 A and 11 D. France At 22 Jan. 2022: I note he is still commemorated at Thiepval. = In the absence of the late Richard Laughton, does anyone know exactly how a submission to CWGC fared? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 January , 2022 Share Posted 22 January , 2022 Pension Index Card at WFA//Fold3 Image courtesy of WFA//Fold3 Probably one for @ss002d6252 - I've not seen one of these before - Compass Allowance? As it might seem to suggest or something special? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 22 January , 2022 Share Posted 22 January , 2022 13 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: Pension Index Card at WFA//Fold3 Image courtesy of WFA//Fold3 Probably one for @ss002d6252 - I've not seen one of these before - Compass Allowance? As it might seem to suggest or something special? M I've very rarely looked at officer's cases. I'd expect it is a compassionate allowance. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 January , 2022 Share Posted 22 January , 2022 1 minute ago, ss002d6252 said: I'd expect it is a compassionate allowance. Thanks - Knew you would likely set me/us in the right direction ;-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterboy Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 I see another case has been successful for Richard and rededication ceremony to take place on 22nd June 2022 @ 14.30 hrs appeaing on the war dectives Facebook page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 On 22/01/2022 at 20:49, Matlock1418 said: In the absence of the late Richard Laughton, does anyone know exactly how a submission to CWGC fared? 3 hours ago, Chesterboy said: I see another case has been successful for Richard and rededication ceremony to take place on 22nd June 2022 @ 14.30 hrs Thanks for the update. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dplc Posted 8 June , 2022 Share Posted 8 June , 2022 Ernest Lockett Cole was my great Uncle. My sister and I will be attending the rededication service this month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykayu Posted 13 June , 2022 Share Posted 13 June , 2022 On 08/06/2022 at 20:41, Dplc said: Ernest Lockett Cole was my great Uncle. My sister and I will be attending the rededication service this month Great picture, thanks for posting. I hope the trip and the service goes well for you and your sister. Good to know that your family will finally be able to pay their respects at Ernest's grave after 106 years of waiting. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 16 June , 2022 Share Posted 16 June , 2022 Nice to see another of Richard's cases has been successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dplc Posted 20 June , 2022 Share Posted 20 June , 2022 Hi. Sommeinfoplease mentions buying a death penny for Ernest Lockett Cole on EBay I would really like to see an image of this if possible. Ernest was my great uncle and we are attending a rededication service for him this week thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankengine888 Posted 21 June , 2022 Share Posted 21 June , 2022 18 hours ago, Dplc said: Hi. Sommeinfoplease mentions buying a death penny for Ernest Lockett Cole on EBay I would really like to see an image of this if possible. Ernest was my great uncle and we are attending a rededication service for him this week thank you Hello! This might rouse them.. no assurances though.@Sommeinfoplease Anyways, I must go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 21 June , 2022 Admin Share Posted 21 June , 2022 22 hours ago, Dplc said: Hi. Sommeinfoplease mentions buying a death penny for Ernest Lockett Cole on EBay I would really like to see an image of this if possible. Ernest was my great uncle and we are attending a rededication service for him this week thank you User name @Sommeinfoplease joined and last visited the GWF on the 22 January 2022 If they are still using the same email you can also try to send a personal message click on the highlighted user name and it will take you to their page where there is a "message" option box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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