Unknown Officer 12/13th Northumberland Fusiliers, Gouzeaucourt New British Cemetery

[laughton]

This one is a bit of a puzzle concerning the CWGC web site as it is a puzzle about the identification. I would appreciated if someone else could search the CWGC site to see if they get the same results - maybe I am missing something?

 

This UNKNOWN BRITISH OFFICER of the 12/13th Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers is reported in Plot 5 Row E Grave 2 of the GOuzeaucourt New British Cemetery. The files are as follows:

 

COG-BR 2004912

GRRF 2761908

HD SCHD 2662734

 

By the time he gets to the Headstone Schedule, he is no longer reported as 12/13th Northumberland Fusilier. It would appear reasonable that there must have been clear markings to identify him as a member of the August 1917 amalgamated battalion. He was found at 57c.W.18.c.9.3, which places him just south of Chapel Hill, about 2,000 yards southwest of Gauche Wood. That suggests late November or early December 1917, however there are no such casualties recorded. For the notes, I place him in Gough's 5th Army, 62nd Brigade, 21st Division.

 

If I run a CWGC search for the "12/13th Bn." + "Northumberland Fusiliers" (no other search terms) I get only 7 candidates, of which 6 are in France and all 6 are in 1918. There are no Unknown Officers.

 

Next, if I run a search for the Pozieres Memorial, where the two unknown Privates were found in the search above, I find 336 unknowns of the Northumberland Fusiliers, with more than 70 of those listed as being of the 12/13th Battalion. The two Privates from the first search (Trotter & Ingle) are on that list, but none of the others showed up on the first search. To me that suggests a flaw in the CWGC system, unless I did something I can not resolve. An independent test appears to be needed!

 

There are no men of the Northumberland Fusiliers listed on the Cambrai Memorial by way of a CWGC search.

 

I separated out all the Unknown Officers of the Northumberland Fusiliers on the Pozieres Memorial and found the ones listed below, showing Captain and 5 Second Lieutenants:

 

surname	forename	initials	death	rank	unit
DEEMING	FRANK TETLOW	F T	21-03-18	Captain	12th Bn.
FAWCUS	WALTER	W	25-03-18	Captain	19th Bn.
GLEDSTONE	HERBERT REGINALD	H R	25-05-18	Captain
LEASK	JAMES CUNLIFFE	J C	30-03-18	Captain	5th Bn.
LEVIN	CHARLES NORTON	C N	21-03-18	Captain	21st (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.
LOCKIE	JAMES	J	22-03-18	Captain	12th/13th Bn.
DICKINSON	ARTHUR FROWDE	A F	22-03-18	Lieutenant	14th Bn.
LUND	TOM CLOUGH	T C	23-03-18	Lieutenant	1st/4th Bn.
CHEVREAU	LOUIS RAYMOND De MONTLEHU	L R De M	22-03-18	Second Lieutenant	16th Bn. attd. 1st/4th Bn.
ELLIOTT	JOHN WILLIAM	J W	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant	12th/13th Bn.
HALL	THOMAS	T	27-03-18	Second Lieutenant	1st/6th Bn.
HAMILTON	JOHN	J	23-03-18	Second Lieutenant	4th Bn. attd. 6th Bn.
MARKHAM	WALTER HENRY JAMES	W H J	27-03-18	Second Lieutenant	1st/5th Bn.
MARSH	WILLIAM BERNARD	W B	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant	12th Bn.
MUSTARD	ROBERT WILLIAM	R W	31-03-18	Second Lieutenant	12th/13th Bn.
NETTLESHIP	THOMAS	T	22-03-18	Second Lieutenant	1st/5th Bn.
RAMSEY	CHARLES OWEN	C O	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant	12th/13th Bn.
RICHARDSON	THOMAS WILLIAM TAYLOR	T W T	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant	12th/13th Bn.
RIDLEY	THOMAS	T	23-03-18	Second Lieutenant	12th/13th Bn.
RUDDOCK		R B	06-04-18	Second Lieutenant	5th Bn.
THOMPSON	MATTHEW ARNOLD	M A	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant	3rd Bn. attd. 12th Bn.
TIBBS	THOMAS	T	22-03-18	Second Lieutenant	1st/4th Bn.

 

If these are the only candidates, then they must have been killed in the battle of St. Quentin, 21-23 March 1918, well to the south of Cambrai and mid-way to Chapel Hill to the west.

 

It is perhaps for this reason that the GRU dropped the unit affiliation. That seems odd given that they also identified the amalgamated battalion. I did check the CWGC site to see if there were any other "12/13th Bn." listings and none existed other than the 7 men from the first search.

 

I could not find any direct evidence that the 12/13th Northumberland Fusiliers were at Chapel Hill, or anywhere near that area in 1917 or 1918.

 

[laughton]

This topic is now influenced by the other topic of the UNKNOWN CAPTAIN of the Northumberland Fusiliers, detailed here:

 

Captain, Northumberland Fusiliers: Villers Hill British Cemetery 7.D.3

I will need to also link that topic back to this one, as here we have a direct reference to the 12th/13th Battalion, which we can now couple with the other topic where we have direct evidence of the 12th/13th Battalion in this specific area. We reported there that the unknown Captain was found at 57c.X.19.a.2.6, in the same sector as Private Pease (KIA 21 March 1918) of the 12th/13th Battalion. The Captain and Private were found in Sector 57c.X.19 which is the immediate sector to the southeast of where this NF Officer was recovered at 57c.W.18.c.9.3. The two bodies of the NF OFFICERS were recovered less than 500 yards from each other.

 

 

What we now know in this case is that the Officer was definitely 12th/13th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers (marked on COG-BR etc.) and that the 12th/13th was in this specific area in March of 1918. The short list of all the candidates can be reduced to:

 

surname	forename	death	rank
LOCKIE	JAMES	22-03-18	Captain
ELLIOTT	JOHN WILLIAM	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant
MUSTARD	ROBERT WILLIAM	31-03-18	Second Lieutenant
RAMSEY	CHARLES OWEN	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant
RICHARDSON	THOMAS WILLIAM TAYLOR	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant
RIDLEY	THOMAS	23-03-18	Second Lieutenant

 

If, as it now appears, Captain Lockie is the candidate in Villers Hill British Cemetery, then he is off this list and this Officer is a Second Lieutenant. There is nothing else on the COG-BR that would tell us which one of the five was recovered and buried in Plot 5 Row E Grave 2.

 

The importance of this topic now becomes that it proves that the 12th/13th Northumberland Fusiliers were in this area in March of 1918. We already know that they did not exist prior to 10 August 1917

 

 

These are all the Officers of the 12th/13th KIA or DOW in the year after the amalgamation:

 

surname	forename	death	rank	cemeterymemorial	reference	location
COY	J C	27-09-18	Captain	GOUZEAUCOURT NEW BRITISH CEMETERY	II. A. 15.	15 km SW Cambrai
LOCKIE	JAMES	22-03-18	Captain	POZIERES MEMORIAL	Panel 16 to 18.	21 Mar-7 Aug 1918
HUTCHINSON	WILLIAM STANHOPE	08-09-18	Captain	VARENNES MILITARY CEMETERY	IV. A. 70.	18 km NW Amiens
FRANCE	WILLIAM	08-10-18	Second Lieutenant	BOIS-DES-ANGLES BRITISH CEMETERY	I. A. 49.	16 km S Cambrai
ELLIOTT	JOHN WILLIAM	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant	POZIERES MEMORIAL	Panel 16 to 18.	21 Mar-7 Aug 1918
RAMSEY	CHARLES OWEN	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant	POZIERES MEMORIAL	Panel 16 to 18.	"
RICHARDSON	THOMAS WILLIAM TAYLOR	21-03-18	Second Lieutenant	POZIERES MEMORIAL	Panel 16 to 18.	"
RIDLEY	THOMAS	23-03-18	Second Lieutenant	POZIERES MEMORIAL	Panel 16 to 18.	"
MUSTARD	ROBERT WILLIAM	31-03-18	Second Lieutenant	POZIERES MEMORIAL	Panel 16 to 18.	"
ROBINSON	WILLIAM	22-08-18	Second Lieutenant	QUEENS CEMETERY, BUCQUOY	II. H. 4.	15 km SE Arras
DAVIES	ALUN EDWARDS	28-05-18	Second Lieutenant	SOISSONS MEMORIAL		100 km NE Paris
COLLINS	ALEXANDER KIRKPATRICK	29-05-18	Second Lieutenant	SOISSONS MEMORIAL		"
THOMPSON	JAMES WILLIAM	08-08-18	Second Lieutenant	ST. SEVER CEMETERY, ROUEN	Officers, B. 2. 38.	Hospital Centre
ROBINSON	JOHN HUNTER	17-09-18	Second Lieutenant	ST. SEVER CEMETERY, ROUEN	Officers, C. 8. 2.	Hospital Centre
GIBBON	FREDERIC	08-10-18	Second Lieutenant	VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL	Panel 3.	8 Aug 18 - Armistice
GREENWELL	JOHN	24-10-18	Second Lieutenant	VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL	Panel 3.	"
TUNNELL	OLIVER	24-10-18	Second Lieutenant	VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL	Panel 3.	"
WATSON	BENJAMIN ALEXANDER	24-10-18	Second Lieutenant	VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL	Panel 3.	"

Edited 27 October , 2017 by laughton
added table

[charlie2]

You need to search for 12th/13th Bn. not 12/13th Bn the results are different.

[laughton]

Thank you and correct! I had used both sets of terms and did not notice. When I saw that, I was going to add Captain Brownlow to the list, then I noticed he was "attached" and so did not. I presume he would still be wearing 2nd Battalion markings?

 

I have asked CWGC to correct the records.

[laughton]

I have put the two related Northumberland Fusilier cases into a separate category on my master list, where I added this comment:

 

Quote

These two are linked investigations as Northumberland Fusilier Officers. If the Unknown Captain is Lockie, then the Unknown Officer is a one of five (5) Second Lieutenants and the case for the Unknown Officer cannot be resolved:

1. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/254728-captain-northumberland-fusiliers-villers-hill-british-cemetery-7d3/
2. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/254383-unknown-officer-1213th-northumberland-fusiliers-gouzeaucourt-new-british-cemetery/b

 

To continue with these cases, I now need to check all the other NKG Northumberland Fusilier Captains, as it is only a presumption at this date that Lockie is the preferred candidate based on the other 112th/13th men found in the same cemetery.

 

[laughton]

We must also include Officers that were listed as either 12th or 13th and not as 12th/13th as we know from the other case that the CWGC used multiple affiliations.

 

On 23/02/2018 at 12:09, laughton said:

We thus have the following remaining on the list of candidates, which renders this case "closed" unless we can find additional information:

1. LOCKIE, JAMES 22-03-18 12th/13th Bn. POZIERES MEMORIAL (attached 2nd Bn Lincolnshire Regiment - missed that at first!)
2. DEEMING, FRANK TETLOW 21-03-18 12th Bn. (must be 12th/13th Bn.) POZIERES MEMORIAL

 

Captain Deeming was listed as 12th Battalion. Here is the list of Captain's of the Northumberland Fusiliers on the CWGC List. From this information, we would also need to add Captain Gledstone, as he was attached to the 4th Bn Bedfordshire Regiment from the Northumberland Fusiliers but I don't know what NF unit. He came up from a Private in the 18th Bn Royal Fusiliers #1526 (MIC record).

 

There are no NF Majors on the Pozieres Memorial. Neither of the two (2) Lieutenants were 12th/13th Bn (CWGC Link).

 

To the Second Lieutenant List above we now need to add those that were listed as 12th or 13th and not as 12th/13th:

• William Bernard Marsh 12th Bn attached 1st Bn Lincolnshire Regiment
• Mathew Arnold Thompson, 3rd Bn attached 12th Bn (and we know 3rd was a reserve battalion)