Help finding Details on 2 names. Local War Memorial Guilden Sutton

[ATNOMIS]

Pals

 

The next village from me has four names on it http://www.guildensutton.org.uk/Guilden Sutton/War memorial.html

 

J Griffiths, S Wrench, F Lindop, W F Smith

I have found  Samuel Wrench and Frank Lindop .

Having trouble with W F Smith and J Griffiths

 

J Griffiths 3 on CWGC

it can not be Captain John Griffiths he was a Christleton. James Samuel Griffiths was from Saltney

John Griffiths is remembered on the Hoole Memorial.

Im stuck..

I cannot find anything on W F Smith.

 

Thanks in advances

 

Simon

 

 

[HarryBrook]

W. F. Smith was 2nd Lt. Wilbraham Fremantle Smith, 5th Bn. Cheshire Regt. k.i.a 28 September 1916. He was the son of Robert Cathcart Smith and Mary, born Guilden Sutton, Cheshire. His name and date of birth from his probate record and Guilden Sutton link from censuses, presently unable to locate on C.W.G.C. but will look again.

 

Edit: C.W.G.C. link https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/31764/smith,-/

Edited 8 October , 2017 by HarryBrook

[ATNOMIS]

3 minutes ago, HarryBrook said:

W. F. Smith was 2nd Lt. Wilbraham Fremantle Smith, 5th Bn. Cheshire Regt. k.i.a 28 September 1916. He was the son of Robert Cathcart Smith and Mary, born Guilden Sutton, Cheshire. His name and date of birth from his probate record and Guilden Sutton link from censuses, presently unable to locate on C.W.G.C. but will look again.

 

 

Thank you. Any other details?

Simon

[HarryBrook]

A short obituary was published in the Nantwich Guardian on 6 October 1916, see below. There was also a slightly fuller one in The Chester Chronicle on 7 October 1916 which added that he had had a leg amputated due to the severity of his wound.

[ATNOMIS]

Thank you.

Great stuff

 

Simon

[thetrenchrat22]

SE/11972 Private George Devine

No 2 Reserve Veterninary Hospital, Army Veterinary Corps.  Died in the 4th March 1917, aged 32.  

 

Son of Lawrence & Frances Devine of Guilden Sutton.  

 

husband of Bertha Agnes Devine of The Rake, Little Stanney. 

 

He was born on the 6th November 1884 in Guilden Sutton and was baptised on 15th February 1885.  He had 3 sisters Jessie, Alice, May and 3 brothers Lawrence Jnr, John and Arthur.  He went to the Guilden Sutton Church of England school.  

 

He married Bertha on the 15th February 1916

 

He died in the stables at Longmoor Camp and a inquest was held a verdict of 'death from natural causes' was given.  But it was said he was kicked to death by a horse 

 

[ATNOMIS]

1 hour ago, thetrenchrat22 said:

SE/11972 Private George Devine

No 2 Reserve Veterninary Hospital, Army Veterinary Corps.  Died in the 4th March 1917, aged 32.  

 

Son of Lawrence & Frances Devine of Guilden Sutton.  

 

husband of Bertha Agnes Devine of The Rake, Little Stanney. 

 

He was born on the 6th November 1884 in Guilden Sutton and was baptised on 15th February 1885.  He had 3 sisters Jessie, Alice, May and 3 brothers Lawrence Jnr, John and Arthur.  He went to the Guilden Sutton Church of England school.  

 

He married Bertha on the 15th February 1916

 

He died in the stables at Longmoor Camp and a inquest was held a verdict of 'death from natural causes' was given.  But it was said he was kicked to death by a horse 

 

Thank you. 

Simon

 

[ATNOMIS]

Just alittle Bump.. J Griffiths??

Still cannot find him..

 

Thanks in Advance

 

Simon

[HarryBrook]

As is well known it is not unknown for a man's  name to appear on a war memorial even though he had survived the war: and the following may be a complete red herring, but I post it as a possibility.

 

The 1911 census includes a John Griffiths, born Guilden Sutton about 1890, working as a butcher's assistant for a Robert Taylor Clay in Tattenhall, Cheshire - link to ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_21837_0317_03/5850520?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

The Cheshire Observer of 26 January 1918 reported that Pte. John Griffiths, Grenadier Guards, formerly employed by Mr. R. T. Clay had recently joined up and was on leave.

However, there is no record of the death of a John Griffiths, Grenadier Guards. 

[ATNOMIS]

Could have re cap badged..Thank you..

[Phil Wood]

On 10/8/2017 at 14:15, ATNOMIS said:

J Griffiths 3 on CWGC

it can not be Captain John Griffiths he was a Christleton. James Samuel Griffiths was from Saltney

John Griffiths is remembered on the Hoole Memorial.

 

 

Why could it not be Capt John Griffiths?  Two men of the same name from adjoining parishes is not impossible, but many men were commemorated on more than one memorial. As these are so close I would look seriously to see if I could find a connection to Guildon Sutton. The other two aren't from far away either - it depends on how names were chosen for these memorials, but it's quite possible that his wife lived in one parish, his parents in another and there he is on two memorials.  I would actually be surprised if there was a fourth John Griffiths in such a small area (three already seems a lot).

[ATNOMIS]

19 hours ago, Phil Wood said:

 

Why could it not be Capt John Griffiths?  Two men of the same name from adjoining parishes is not impossible, but many men were commemorated on more than one memorial. As these are so close I would look seriously to see if I could find a connection to Guildon Sutton. The other two aren't from far away either - it depends on how names were chosen for these memorials, but it's quite possible that his wife lived in one parish, his parents in another and there he is on two memorials.  I would actually be surprised if there was a fourth John Griffiths in such a small area (three already seems a lot).

Phil

 

I have thought that he may have been crossed parish. I look at the 1911 census again.

 

Thank you

 

Simon

[Susan Tall]

It probably is Captain John Griffiths as it is quite common for men to be on several war memorials, particularly officers, and from a book about the Christleton War Memorial, I see he is mentioned on their war memorial, the church memorial at St James', the Christleton Institute memorial and on a plaque at the Town Hall, Chester.  Still not sure of his association with Christleton or Guilden Sutton.  It says he was the son of John and Jane Griffiths of Chester and gives his occupation at Teacher at Larne Grammar School, N. Ireland.  Apparently he visited Christleton many times, the last a month before he died when he thanked the villagers for their donation of gifts for his men. He occasionally stayed in the village and did so in June 1916 to recuperate from an injury.  He was to die on the 1st July 1916.  The link could be through his sister Mary Pritchard Griffiths who married George Richards at St James' Christleton in March 1916.

[ATNOMIS]

On 30/10/2017 at 10:06, Susan Tall said:

It probably is Captain John Griffiths as it is quite common for men to be on several war memorials, particularly officers, and from a book about the Christleton War Memorial, I see he is mentioned on their war memorial, the church memorial at St James', the Christleton Institute memorial and on a plaque at the Town Hall, Chester.  Still not sure of his association with Christleton or Guilden Sutton.  It says he was the son of John and Jane Griffiths of Chester and gives his occupation at Teacher at Larne Grammar School, N. Ireland.  Apparently he visited Christleton many times, the last a month before he died when he thanked the villagers for their donation of gifts for his men. He occasionally stayed in the village and did so in June 1916 to recuperate from an injury.  He was to die on the 1st July 1916.  The link could be through his sister Mary Pritchard Griffiths who married George Richards at St James' Christleton in March 1916.

Susan

 

Thank you..More digging to be done..

 

Simon

[Phil Wood]

Came across a chap yesterday, landlord of a Newbury pub, went off to war and didn't come back.  He is not on any Newbury memorial, but is on 6 memorials on the Isle of Wight. Who appears on what memorial can seem quite mysterious at times.

 

If I were you I'd keep looking at all three JGs you have identified, they all seem to have links to places within walking distance of Guilden Sutton.

[Susan Tall]

I agree with Phil that you need to keep looking at all three JGs, but if you want to see a photo of Capt John Griffiths I've just found him on the following website.  Still doesn't give any connection to either Christleton or Guilden Sutton.

 

http://www.christleton.org.uk/christleton2/heroes/jgriffiths/index.html

[thetrenchrat22]

Have you looked at the absent voters list and the normal voters list.  

 

To see if any Griffiths are still in Guilden Sutton.  

 

When the war memorial was put up

Edited 2 November , 2017 by thetrenchrat22

[ATNOMIS]

Thanks all.

 

Took this picture Monday morning

 

[rolt968]

Have you rejected the various J Griffiths in your first post only because they are on neighbouring war memorials? I have found a number of men who are on two neighbouring war memorials. In one case I have not yet found a reason why he is on the second. (I assume it is because at some stage he was working in the second parish, but have not found any evidence.)

 

RM

[Susan Tall]

Of the three J Griffiths on CWGC I think you can eliminate James Samuel, as I think the Guilden Sutton memorial would have both initials on it.

You said he was on the Hoole memorial, but I can only see a W R Griffiths and a W S Griffiths on the photos of their memorial.

 

With regard to Capt John Griffiths whose sister Mary Pritchard Griffiths married a George Richards in March 1916 in Christleton.  She is down as a widow on the 1939 Register living in Plough Lane, Christleton.  Did Capt John Griffiths stay with her in Christleton a month before he was killed and she had his name put on Christleton war memorial and possibly Guilden Sutton?  

[Susan Tall]

Just realised you said the other John Griffiths (10597 Cheshire Regt) with widow living in Chester was on the Hoole memorial, not James Samuel.

Anyway I still cannot find him on Hoole memorial, only a W R and a W S Griffiths.

[thetrenchrat22]

When I walked from own village of Stoak to Guilden Sutton for research on George Devine who was born at Guilden Sutton 

 

i seen the memorial but on seeing it again, it’s not the original memorial,  possible it’s a modern memorial.  

 

Could the surname but actually Griffith instead of Griffiths

 

the reasons behind this is that my Great Grandfather was John Griffith who died in 1917 but when my mother was born in 1943 the surname on her birth certificate was Griffiths 

 

john is buried at St John’s Churchyard in Great Sutton but never served.

[ATNOMIS]

Pals

An update on J Griffiths. I found him on the family plot in Guilden Sutton. His Father Joseph and Mother Jane.The man is 

PRIVATE

JOHN GRIFFITHS

Service Number: 30016

Regiment & Unit/Ship

Grenadier Guards

 

4th Bn.

 

Date of Death

Died 13 April 1918

 

Buried or commemorated at

PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL

Panel 1.

Belgium.

I have passed on the details to CWGC

Regards

Simon

 

Edited 30 July , 2023 by ATNOMIS