Frank Cyril Greig M.C.

[Dave66]

I'm hoping there's someone that can help pinpoint where my Grandfather, temporary Captain/acting Major Frank Cyril Greig R.A.M.C. was involved in the action that he was subsequently awarded the military cross.

I have made numerous enquirers over the years and have found all the usual records regarding his medical career, but, as is quite common no military records survive.

He was a surgeon pre war in Nottingham, and on volunteering joined a field ambulance...was there a specific field ambulance that he would have joined given that location, presuming north midland.????

His M.C. Citation was gazetted on 13th September1918 and reads as follows.

"T./Capt. (A./Maj.) Frank Cyril Greig, R.A.M.C.

For conspicuous Gallantry and devotion to duty.

He was in charge of the Advanced dressing station 

for five days, working under very heavy shell fire the 

whole time organising the disposition of his bearers.

When the post was almost completely destroyed by 

shell fire some of his men were buried in a dug-out, 

and he worked with unremitting energy under heavy 

shell fire to to get them out."

I am presuming German spring offensive, as one source suggests April 1918. 

Has anybody come across any war diary entry that could tie all this together?

 

many thanks 

 

Dave.

 

 

 

 

[clk]

Hi Dave,

 

This is the annotated version of the citation from the MC registers held by the National Archives. Unfortunately it doesn't show a specific unit.

 

Source: The National Archives - file WO 389/7 (part 1)

 

There should be a corresponding index card which might give you something extra. It should be in this free download. I didn't see it, but it might be misfiled.

 

Regards

Chris

[Dave66]

1 hour ago, clk said:

Hi Dave,

 

This is the annotated version of the citation from the MC registers held by the National Archives. Unfortunately it doesn't show a specific unit.

 

Source: The National Archives - file WO 389/7 (part 1)

 

There should be a corresponding index card which might give you something extra. It should be in this free download. I didn't see it, but it might be misfiled.

 

Regards

Chris

 

Many thanks for that Chris,

just tried to download on my iPad but internet is poor to say the least and can't cope with the file size...so much for the modern world!!!

Will try on my sons PC if possible when he gets back on Monday.

Fingers crossed,

 

regards,

 

Dave.

 

[Dave66]

On 6 October 2017 at 21:30, clk said:

There should be a corresponding index card which might give you something extra. It should be in this free download. I didn't see it, but it might be misfiled.

 

Afternoon Chris,

Managed to view all the cards and no joy, many thanks for the link, it was certainly worth a try.

He seems to have disappeared of the face of earth with regards military records.

kind regards,

 

Dave.

[seaJane]

Any relation to Louis Greig? (naval surgeon and Group Captain RAF).

[clk]

Hi Dave,

 

In theory if I could work out the place where his MC action occurred, it shouldn't be that hard to establish which division was responsible for that area at the time, which would reduce it to 3 Field Ambulances, the diaries of which (in conjunction with any medical arrangements in the ADMS diary) would hopefully reveal which FA unit was responsible for staffing the ADS at the time. The problem I have is finding what seems to be a place called Kerninel/Keminel?

 

Regards

Chris

[seaJane]

Kemmel?

[Dave66]

11 hours ago, clk said:

 

Any relation to Louis Greig? (naval surgeon and Group Captain RAF).

 

 

Morning seajane,

To be honest, can't say yes or no. My mothers side has been difficult to pin down, she was his only daughter and died in the early 90's, and I was too young to ask the right questions at the right Time as is often the case.Its only when the 1911 census was released I discovered he was born in Dunedin....New Zeland. What complicates things more is his father is Robert Greig, quite common north of the border (with no middle name) where they originated. Frank had four sisters, but there had to be more relatives back home, but only remember mum mentioning a couple of cousins.

11 hours ago, clk said:

 

In theory if I could work out the place where his MC action occurred, it shouldn't be that hard to establish which division was responsible for that area at the time, which would reduce it to 3 Field Ambulances, the diaries of which (in conjunction with any medical arrangements in the ADMS diary) would hopefully reveal which FA unit was responsible for staffing the ADS at the time. The problem I have is finding what seems to be a place called Kerninel/Keminel?

 

 

Morning Chris,

I really haven't known where to start on this, as it takes an in depth knowledge of the medical services and its organisation which I don't have. If he were attached to a specific regiment...great, I was hoping the location of Nottingham would have placed him in a certain brigade or division, and ADS being under shell fire wouldn't have gone un noticed in the war diaries.

the writing under your post of the gazette citation certainly looks live keminel, looks like the dot of the I under the y of heavy...certainly going to try and do some digging this morning.

 The gazette published the citation on 13th September, and there was presumably a considerable delay between the action and publication, what time frame are we looking at?

 

kind regards, and many thanks,

 

Dave.

 

[Dave66]

Found reference to both mont keminel, and mont kemmel, so am wondering if they are different variations of spellings, Both different versions seem to relate to the same event around 6 miles from Ypres.

Looks to be a horrendous , with mentions of gas which would explain enquiries into his health on old postcards whilst my mother was an evacuee in ww2. There was a chateau used as an ADS....which was retaken later in the year but completely destroyed.

By Jove....I think we've got it!!!

Just need to confirm he was with that unit.

 

Dave.

 

[petestarling]

Dave

I have a database of all the RAMC MC awards and quite a large database of Regimental Medical Officers. He is one of the few I do not have a unit for. If you know what medical school he went to  there might be a clue there. Many universities published memorial books and rolls for those who served in the FWW and you might find his unit mentioned.

As has been suggested, look in the field ambulance war diaries for the division and also the ADMS war diary. Officers movements were mentioned.

 

Pete

[clk]

Hi Dave,

 

2 hours ago, Dave66 said:

The gazette published the citation on 13th September, and there was presumably a considerable delay between the action and publication, what time frame are we looking at?

 

The citation is annotated for actions 12th to 17th April 1918. In the war diary for 63 FA on 10th April 1018 it mentions a Captain Greig being sent to 28 FA at Kemmel. I guess that he might be the same man.

 

Regards

Chris

[Dave66]

11 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi Dave,

 

 

The citation is annotated for actions 12th to 17th April 1918. In the war diary for 63 FA on 10th April 1018 it mentions a Captain Greig being sent to 28 FA at Kemmel. I guess that he might be the same man.

 

Regards

Chris

 

I am most certain it would be him, everything now seems to slot into place quite nicely.

Do you know if there's a war diary for 28th field ambulance covering that period?

 

cheers,

 

Dave.

[clk]

Hi,

 

It's here on Ancestry, or here at the National Archives. It might also be worth looking at the 9 Division ADMS diary.

 

Regards

Chris

[Dave66]

1 hour ago, petestarling said:

Dave

I have a database of all the RAMC MC awards and quite a large database of Regimental Medical Officers. He is one of the few I do not have a unit for. If you know what medical school he went to  there might be a clue there. Many universities published memorial books and rolls for those who served in the FWW and you might find his unit mentioned.

As has been suggested, look in the field ambulance war diaries for the division and also the ADMS war diary. Officers movements were mentioned.

 

Pete

 

Afternoon Pete,

I did make basic enquiries with you at the medical services museum back in 2009, but could never make headway....thank heavens for the G.W.F., The only memorial roll I found was the Nottingham hospitals history but now can't find the web page, there must be an obituary somewhere but it seems to be elusive....he may have links to a newzeland university which would sound probable as he was that was his birth country...he is listed in the 1911 census as being a medical practitioner, staying as a visitor at Stoke newington road, Hackney.

I would be most grateful if you would add any information you can to the database, saves these brave men's actions going un noticed for future generations. 

 

Dave

 

[Dave66]

10 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi,

 

It's here on Ancestry, or here at the National Archives. It might also be worth looking at the 9 Division ADMS diary.

 

Regards

Chris

 

Chris,

I really can't thank you enough for all your kind help, 

And if anybody else decides to search for him in the future, he's here on the G.W.F...a lasting memorial.

 

Dave.

 

 

[seaJane]

Thanks for the Medical Register page, Dave - there is Louis Greig 8 names down from your man

[Dave66]

8 hours ago, seaJane said:

Thanks for the Medical Register page, Dave - there is Louis Greig 8 names down from your man

 

Your more than welcome, to be honest I hadn't noticed I'm ashamed to say as I had my head in finding old destroyed chateau's.

I need to work on the Scottish side of the Greigs, recently found out that his father Robert came from refwenshire I think.....keep you informed if there is a link.

 

Dave.

 

[Dave66]

On 10 October 2017 at 12:53, clk said:

Hi Dave,

 

 

The citation is annotated for actions 12th to 17th April 1918. In the war diary for 63 FA on 10th April 1018 it mentions a Captain Greig being sent to 28 FA at Kemmel. I guess that he might be the same man.

 

Regards

Chris

Evening Chris,

Just had a chance to go through the war diaries, and sadly seems to be the wrong man as later on in May it mentions a major Greig being awarded a bar to the military cross...not something I'm aware of for Frank Cyril, but after research I'm sure this would be Robert Masson Greig 

Still need to go through it in fine detail in its entirety, but was wondering what other field ambulances were operating in that area within that timescale whilst I still have access to ancestry.

Going through my notes, I have him gazetted 22-4-18 as being acting major as of 4-1-18.

 

regards,

 

Dave.