CROONAERT Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 2 minutes ago, Morar Andrei said: Finally succeded to get the photo out of the frey, without destroying it. Is it more clear now? It certainly is... the dark jacket is, indeed, simply a darker version of the 1908 pattern bluse (and not a reissue 1882 rock).There is a famous 1918 photo of a storm unit in Italy with about four different colours of the same pattern jacket being worn, so I'm not sure that there's anything significant in it. It now looks like a watch fob that's on his pocket rather than a badge. I'm also now far less certain of the rank, and I'm afraid that (I think) that a unit identification is going to be impossible with any degree of certainty. Last hope... is anything written on the reverse? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 4 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2017 (edited) Unfortunately not. There is a little slice of the photo missing, degradated by time. Maybe there was something written. Also, there are some very hard to see, almost deleted handwriting, probably from a pencil, which can not be read. Edited 4 October , 2017 by Morar Andrei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 1 minute ago, Morar Andrei said: But I think this might be also a depiction on a more casual, lightweight uniform, There was a 'summer weight' uniform, but these tended to be lighter in colour (and ranged from very pale grey/brown, through to a pale green colour). You know... I'm sure that I've seen an image of an 'ersatz' Austro-Hungarian uniform in a chocolate brown colour (but where?)... another possibility perhaps? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 4 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2017 (edited) Even without any marks on the back of the photo, I still have some chances: first, I can search on the family photo collection to find any similar one, then going to the village and ask my relatives from Cuciulata, where most of them are living, if they recognise them (in the best case, if possible, I can get some information about these guys and even find their uniforms, if they are still intact or at least not completely destroyed by time). A bit complicated, with little chances to succed, but worth to try. Edited 4 October , 2017 by Morar Andrei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 15 minutes ago, Morar Andrei said: Does the area living (south-east Transylvania) also influencing the style on the uniform? Because many nations on the empire had little variations on the uniform. It can, and, yes, you are correct, they did... caps, trousers, belt buckles and, sometimes, equipment and weaponry differed. Unfortunately in this case, the one thing that was seemingly constant throughout the uniforms of the empire was the jacket! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Morar Andrei said: Unfortunately, I can not identify what letters are on the caps. This is the only picture with him I have. But I could notice that he has something on the left pocket, possible the insigna presented upper. Also, if my image coresponds to the one I took from internet, does that mean my guy was possibly a feldgendarm? And about the rank stars, is that possible to be a corporal gendarm? I see very strange that his hat has a different colour to the uniform and looks different from the one weared by the guy from my related picture to, closest one as colour and style. Does his uniform have any connection to the hungarian differences, noting that he was living close to the eastern border of the empire (Cuciulata village, his most probable birth place, such as other members of my family, is not very far to the mountains spliting Austria-Hungary and Kingdom of Romania) and being a transylvanian recrut. Last question is that (more for my curiosity) where can I send the photo to be colorized or is there any computer program that might help? this insignia is possible to be on his left pocket. There is surely something... The item on his left pocket is a pin, probably for securing a pocket watch. Officers and NCOs, such as corporals etc needed a time piece to do their jobs efficiently and for the 'bluse' the top left pocket would be the usual place for a right handed man to keep his watch. Afternote: I see that Dave reached this conclusion too. Edited 4 October , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, CROONAERT said: There was a 'summer weight' uniform, but these tended to be lighter in colour (and ranged from very pale grey/brown, through to a pale green colour). You know... I'm sure that I've seen an image of an 'ersatz' Austro-Hungarian uniform in a chocolate brown colour (but where?)... another possibility perhaps? Dave The chocolate brown was worn by the Horse Artillery, which is why I suggested that they might be an alternative to the Gendarmerie in one of my earlier posts. I am now more convinced than ever that the jacket is a darker shade than the usual field grey of the later war period. Edited 4 October , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 36 minutes ago, Morar Andrei said: Even without any marks on the back of the photo, I still have some chances: first, I can search on the family photo collection to find any similar one, then going to the village and ask my relatives from Cuciulata, where most of them are living, if they recognise them (in the best case, if possible, I can get some information about these guys and even find their uniforms, if they are still intact or at least not completely destroyed by time). A bit complicated, with little chances to succed, but worth to try. You will often find older women have a good memory of these things. I agree it is worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 4 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2017 I still think it looks like this one. Is this gendarmerie? Any possible conclusion? Just present the possible alternatives. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 4 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2017 One thing I want to find: what kind of division was. After that, I can check on the archives the unit identification. Tomorrow I am intending to visit the local museum for some possible pieces of information. I found another picture in the photo album (in fact, it's a postcard). But I don't know if there is WW1 of WW2, even if I'm sure it's from my family, possibly appearing these two persons again. This time, there are more Infos about: it was done by L. Welsman in Bucharest, Rahova Street, year unknown. Remember that I never knew about these guys, who they were, their only memory being the photo. Conclusion: please write the possibilities for what unit kind of uniform was that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 I believe that they are WW2 era Rumanian Army uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Morar Andrei said: I still think it looks like this one. Is this gendarmerie? Any possible conclusion? Just present the possible alternatives. Thank you! I know that you crave certainty but with just the head and shoulders photo and little clear insignia it is simply impossible to be certain of your ancestors unit. I still think it could be a Gendarme, but I am not well versed in Austro-Hungarian Army uniform and it might be some other unit with a dark coloured jacket, such as the Horse Artillery. The picture you found from the web could also be Gendarmerie, but again there is nothing visible to give definitive proof. Edited 4 October , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 30 minutes ago, Morar Andrei said: One thing I want to find: what kind of division was. After that, I can check on the archives the unit identification. Tomorrow I am intending to visit the local museum for some possible pieces of information. I found another picture in the photo album (in fact, it's a postcard). But I don't know if there is WW1 of WW2, even if I'm sure it's from my family, possibly appearing these two persons again. This time, there are more Infos about: it was done by L. Welsman in Bucharest, Rahova Street, year unknown. Remember that I never knew about these guys, who they were, their only memory being the photo. Conclusion: please write the possibilities for what unit kind of uniform was that. Rumanian army 1923 onwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 The next few posts are to illustrate some of the variety of colours of similar uniforms that can be encountered... An image of hechtgrau and feldgrau (technically, feldgrun in the A-H forces) worn in combination to illustrate the contrast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 Varying shades of feldgrau/feldgrun worn within the same unit (1918)... these all have the 1916 model bluse with dropped collars...so none of them will be in hechtgrau ... (note the apparent colour of the trousers on the Feldwebel or stabsfeldwebel lying on the ground on the left) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 A group of auxiliaries from the Feldpostamt (... note the uniform of the chap in the middle, holding the bag...) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 On 04/10/2017 at 23:24, Morar Andrei said: I still think it looks like this one. Is this gendarmerie? Any possible conclusion? Just present the possible alternatives. Thank you! Took a bit of searching, but he appears to be an Unterjäger from a k.k.Feldjäger unit who has been recently awarded the Militaerdienstzeichen 3.Klasse fur Mannschaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 5 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2017 I'm trying at the museum today, to see if I can get something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 6 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 6 October , 2017 I didn't find the historian yet. They told me to try again Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 13 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2017 No luck at the museum. The historian showed me a picture of the Cuciulata soldiers returned home in 1918 from the Austro-Hungarian Army, but no sign for that uniform. They recommended me to contact the National Military Museum in Bucharest, so I sent them an email about on Tuesday. Still waiting for their answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 15 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2017 (edited) Before getting an answer from the National Military Museum, I found something else. Theses two guys, being from Cuciulata village, I can possibly relate them to the 3rd battalion of Infantry Regiment Nr.23, garrisoned in Fogarasch (Făgăraș) or to the 2nd Imperial and Royal Hungarian Infantry Regiment or the Infantry Regiment Nr.24, last two garrisoned in Kronstadt. But, knowing that Cuciulata was part of the Fogarasch recruiting district, I would rather connect them to the first variant. Does anyone have any other pieces of information about? Now, with some posdible divions, it would be easier to recognise what kind of uniform is wearing the guy from the left, with the darker one. Thank you very much! Also, you know what I found strange? That the dark uniform with light coloured hat would like like the one from this image. Am I wrong? Edited 15 October , 2017 by Morar Andrei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 18 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 18 October , 2017 New question: does anyone know something about the 23rd Royal Hungarian (Hoved) Infantry Regiment, especially about its 3rd battalion, garrisoned in Fogarasch? Someone said that my uniform might be a Honved corporal uniform, maybe a 1908-1909 one. Anything that I miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 18 October , 2017 Share Posted 18 October , 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Morar Andrei said: New question: does anyone know something about the 23rd Royal Hungarian (Hoved) Infantry Regiment Nagyszebeni 23. honvéd gyalogezred (or, in it's Germanic designation, the Nagyszebener Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.23) was raised in 1886 and, in 1914, was part of 76 Brigade, 38th Division (38 HID), XII Korps, 2. Armee. It was headquartered at Nagyszeben (now Sibiu, Romania). The regimental commander in 1914 was Obstlt. Desiderius Szoták (Szoták Deszö ezredes) and they saw their first actions during the fighting in Galicia in August 1914. The main recruitment districts for the regiment were Déva and Hermannstadt/Nagyszeben (Sibiu) and the ethnic make-up of the regiment (July 1914) was 69% Rumanian and 25% German with the remaining 6% being made up of various other ethnicities. Uniform (1908) was dark blue tunic, pike-grey coat, light blue breeches (with 'Hungarian knot' decoration), dark blue cap. Piping was slate grey. In July 1914, I Bataillon was at Nagyszeben (with the regimental staff located here too), II Bataillon was at Déva and III Bataillon (as you know) was at Fogaras. I'd have to look a little deeper for the post-Galicia period... Dave. Edited 18 October , 2017 by CROONAERT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 20 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2017 (edited) I found an image with a lot of Austro-Hungarian uniforms from all empire. Can I consider that my guy was a Honved corporal? This is a Honved uniform, probably from 1914, because of the pike-grey uniform. Mine is much darker, possibly the until 1908-1909 model. Edited 20 October , 2017 by Morar Andrei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morar Andrei Posted 20 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2017 The uniform I'm looking for might be the 7th one watching frim right to left, next to the cavalry soldier and the soldier with the fez. Does it help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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