No.19 Class. No2. Officer Cadet Battalion. R.E. Newark. 1917

[GWF1967]

Hi, 

I have a photo postcard of, "No.19 Class. No2 Officer Cadet Battalion Coy. R.E.O.C.B. Kelham Hall. Newark. July. Sept. Oct. 28th 1917"

 All men are named except the first man on the left hand end, back row, who had his named trimmed. There are 79 men named, some are hard to read, some are proving hard to trace. Any help with transcription or records would be very welcome.   I've been SPECTACULARLY unsuccessful with the London Gazette.

The photograph is dated the day, or day after these men were commissioned according to the dates marked on MIC's, being 27th/28th October. - Men with dates given;  * 

Row 6 - Back row. 12 Men. 

 

1. Unnamed. 

2. Leonard John Chillingworth. H.A.C. Pte. 1805. Comm. 2/Lt*. 

3. Frederick John Meen.  938. C.Q.M.S. Suffolk Regiment.  Comm. 2Lt*

4.Frederick John (Gregson) Williams. MiD. T/Lt. 18/5/17. Capt. R.E.?

5. Henry Jules Golton

6. John Sibbald McKay.

7. Thomas Henry Leader. 

8. Bertram Frederick Holness. R.A.M.C. Pte. 3124. Comm. 2/Lt*

9. R.F. Trace?

10. Leonard Starling Daynes. L/Cpl 82240. DCM. 26/7/17. Comm.* Capt. 

11. Herbert Firth Sharp. 

12. William Knight Fyall. 16th Royal Scots. Pte. 19776. Comm. 2/Lt*

 

 

[GWF1967]

Row.5.  14 Men.

 

1. Robert Osborne Wrightson Earle. 1st F. Coy. Australian Engineers. 230. M.S.M. 12/10/1916.

2. Albert Schofield.  C.A.M.C. Pte. 1076. Comm. 2/Lt.

3. Charles Albion Perkins. AIF 

4. Clifford Ernest Plant. M.M. Sgt. 6th F.Coy. Australian Engineers.

5. Harold Goldie Whitcombe. (Witcombe. Tasmanian Pictorial Roll of Honour ). MC . AIF.

6. Alfred Edmondson. 7th Drag Guards GS/23186. D/16692. Comm. 2/Lt*

7. James Cochrane Houston. C.Q.M.S. 48804. Comm. 2/Lt*

8. Percy Richard Samuel Walker. A.S.C. DM2/230992.  Comm. 2/Lt*.  KiA. 5/8/1918.

9. George Matthews Hutton. Scottish Horse. L/Cpl. 541. R. Highlanders. 316601. Comm. 2/Lt*

10. John William Preston. 2/Lt.   France 1/4/1918. 

11. Hugh Phillip Bishop. Naval Forces. Spr. Deal/51179. R.E. A/2Cpl. 200026. Comm. 2/Lt*

12. Harold Challen Saunders. 

13. John Martin Tweedie Horne.

14. Leonard Hargreaves Crossley. 

Edit. Clifford Ernest Plant 28/10/1917 and as Sgt. 3355 6th F.Coy. Aus. Eng. ( photo. Discovering Anzacs )

 

 

[GWF1967]

Row.4.  13 Men.

 

1. Harry Hugh Joiner. T-R.E. Spr. 3256. 552688. Comm. 2/Lt*

2. Arthur McNaughton 2/Lt R.E.

3. D.M. Cuthbert?

4. Gordon Escott Gabriel. MM.  L.G. 9/12/1916 AIF.

5. H. Brown.

6. Phillip Thomas Garner.

7. M.G. Shaw?

8. Albert Dennis Bumpstead. 2/Lt - Lt.  France. 31/3/1918.

9. William James Goldfinch. Spr. 2660. 554055. Comm. 2/Lt.

10. Herbert Parkinson. Spr. 357607. Comm. 2/Lt.

11. C.A. Bostock?

12. Gilbert  Vinden.

13. Peter Ostler. R.N.D. Spr. 423. A.S.C. S4/186274. Lt. R.E.

 

Edited 30 September , 2017 by GWF1967

[GWF1967]

Row.3.  16 Men.

 

1. David Pearce Sharman. Spr. 296. Comm. 2/Lt*

2. Aubrey Frederick Hall. Cpl. 99007. Comm. 2/Lt*.  KiA. 8/8/1918.

3. James Brown.

4. Henry Charles Hastings Clay. N/Staffs. 2/Lt. Lt. R.E. - S.W.B. List.

5. A.W. Wilson.  W/Riding Reg. 2/Lt - Capt. R.E. Att. 17th Corps. H.Q.

6. Samuel Thomas Cryer Stillwell. 2/Lt W/Yorks 2/Lt R.E. 

7. Horace Archibald Benson. 1st London Scottish. Pte. 2368 TP/519.  France. 15/9/1914.  Comm. 2/Lt South Lancs Reg. 22/2/1915.  SWB List.

8. Capel Hereward Price.  A.S.C. Lt.  - R.E.  Lt. Salonika. Nov. 1915

9.Norman MacIntyre Robertson Duncan.

10. John  Duminy.  Trooper 17th Mounted Rifles. S.A.D.F.  G. S/W Africa. Nov.1914.  Comm. 2/Lt R.E. T. Res. B.

11. Robert Grieves. N/Fus. 5/2443. Lt. R.E.

12. Frank Hayden Poole. 1/9. London. Pte. 2219. Comm. Lt. R.E.  France. 4/11/1914.

13. Edward McLaughlan.

14. Harold Ernest Kinton. 2/ London. Sgt. 2950. Comm. 2/Lt.  France. 24/6/16. 

15. John Carlyle Pocock. Cpl. 550556. Comm. 2/Lt.

16. Sidney Juleff.

 

 

Edited 1 October , 2017 by GWF1967

[GWF1967]

Row.2.  13 Men. 

 

1. John Pugh Benson. Spr. 1118. Sgt. 438079. E/Lancs. F.Coy.427. Comm. 2/Lt*

2. Herbert Melling. 1/1. E/Lancs. F. coy. Spr. 1080. 438307. Comm. Lt*

3. Arthur Harry Watson. MC.

4. Alan Priestley. Royal N/Devon Yeo. 418. Sgt. R.E. 207665. Comm. 2/Lt*

5. R.O. Woods?

6. S.H. Lilley?

7. John Henry Clarke. R.N. A/S. 10/3054. R.E. 2/Lt - Capt.

8. Frank Victor Hulme.

9. D.J. Phillips?

10. Harry Claude Nash. Spr. 158799. Comm 2/Lt*

11. John Sharples Charnley. 2/Lt.  France. Jan. 1918. Lt. R.E. Works Mesopot.

12. Maurice Henry King. E/Surrey. Pte. 204043. R/Fus. GS/64196. Lt. R.E.

13. Alfred Duckworth. 2/Lt.  France. 5/4/1918.

 

Edit. Watson. MC.

 

[GWF1967]

Row.1.  Front Row. 11 Men.

 

1. Peter Wilson Miller. Spr. 8768. 400056. Comm. 2/Lt*

2. Edwin Salter Hoare.

3. Marcus Ramsey Crabb. 48th F.Coy. Spr. 1039. L/Cpl. 524085. Comm. Lt*

4. Wilfred dunning. Spr. 896. L/Cpl. 438046. Comm. 2/Lt*

5. A. Young?

6. Aubrey Charles James. 2/Lt.  France. March 1918.

7. H. Spencer?

8. Robert James Nairn. 2/Lt 

9. Leonard Percy Hampson. 

10. John Burrows. 2/5 S/Lancs. C.Q.M.S. 2574. Comm. Lt - Capt. 

11. Edward Phillips. Spr. 36876. Comm. 2/Lt*

 

 

Edited 30 September , 2017 by GWF1967

[Old Owl]

Hi GWF,

 

Just been having a quick look and have found the following all under Royal Engineers and the date 28/10/17 for commission as 2/Lts:

 

T.H.Leader; H.F.Sharp; J.M.T.Horne; L.H.Crossley; H.C.Saunders; W.K.Fyall; L.S.Daynes,DCM; H.F.Golton all listed together in the Feb 1919 Army List

 

Also:  C.E.Plant AIF Engineers; H.G.Witcombe MC, AIF 28/1/18

 

Hope that these help,  I will look further if I have chance later.

 

Robert

[GWF1967]

27 minutes ago, Old Owl said:

Hi GWF,

 

Just been having a quick look and have found the following all under Royal Engineers and the date 28/10/17 for commission as 2/Lts:

 

T.H.Leader; H.F.Sharp; J.M.T.Horne; L.H.Crossley; H.C.Saunders; W.K.Fyall; L.S.Daynes,DCM; H.F.Golton all listed together in the Feb 1919 Army List

 

Also:  C.E.Plant AIF Engineers; H.G.Witcombe MC, AIF 28/1/18

 

Hope that these help,  I will look further if I have chance later.

 

Robert

Thank you Robert. See#2 Edit above r.e. C.E. Plant.

[Mark1959]

Row 1 number 9 possibly Leonard Percy Hampson. Commissioned wef 28/10/17

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30362/supplement/11303

As is Robert James Nairn 

So is George Matthew Hutton

So Robert's evidence would suggest a lot if not all were commisssioned at the same time

Edward Salter Hoore in same list so probably him you have identified as ES Hoone (Row 1 Man 2)

Arthur MacNaughton also

Plus Edward McLaughlan

 

 

Edited 30 September , 2017 by Mark1959

[GWF1967]

32 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

Row 1 number 9 possibly Leonard Percy Hampson. Commissioned wef 28/10/17

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30362/supplement/11303

As is Robert James Nairn 

So is George Matthew Hutton

So Robert's evidence would suggest a lot if not all were commisssioned at the same time

Edward Salter Hoore in same list so probably him you have identified as ES Hoone (Row 1 Man 2)

Arthur MacNaughton also

Plus Edward McLaughlan

 

 

Many thanks, name change for Swift-Juleff as well.

[Mark1959]

Gordon Escott Gabriel AIF

 

https://www.discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/records/234411/4

 

This page has his posting to the school. Again show commissioned 28/10/17

 

 

Edited 30 September , 2017 by Mark1959

[Mark1959]

Arthur Harry Watson MC

 

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31119/supplement/648

 

Same list as above.

 

Norman MacIntyre Robertson Duncan. Not Wm R Duncan in list I think - see dots after initials

[Mark1959]

Outstanding

Row 6

9. R.F. Trace? - do not think Trace is correct. May end LL

Row 4

3. D.M. Cuthbert?

5. H. Brown.

7. M.G. Shaw?

11. C.A. Bostock?

Row 3

5. A.W. Wilson?

7. H.A. Benson?

8. C.H. Price?

10. J. Dunning? - think name ends in a y - looking at other Dunning there is great differences in how the surname is spelt

Row 2

5. R.O. Woods?

6. S.H. Lilley?

9. D.J. Phillips?

Row 1

5. A. Young?

7. H. Spencer?

 

Looked for nearly all of these without any success. 

The Australians in the picture all have an appropriate cap so probably not AIF - Canadians or NZ?

Noted a number of those remaining do not have white band - instructors rather than candidates?

AW Wilson in row 3 appears to have a ribbon displayed so implies served overseas? As OR?

 

 

[GWF1967]

2 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

Outstanding.

 Outstanding indeed.  64/78 men id'd.  82%  

 

9. R.F. Trace? - do not think Trace is correct. May end LL.

 

 I've tried several LL, CE, RL combinations.

 

10. J. Dunning? - think name ends in a y - looking at other Dunning there is great differences in how the surname is spelt.

 

 

Looked for nearly all of these without any success. 

The Australians in the picture all have an appropriate cap so probably not AIF - Canadians or NZ?

Noted a number of those remaining do not have white band - instructors rather than candidates?

AW Wilson in row 3 appears to have a ribbon displayed so implies served overseas? As OR?

 

 MIC's for 60/79 men identified so far. 76% 

 I found another copy of the same postcard on ebay, it looks to be a better exposure. No names on the back unfortunately.

 Many thanks for all your help.

 

Edited 1 October , 2017 by GWF1967

[GWF1967]

On 01/10/2017 at 18:29, Mark1959 said:

Row.3.

7. H.A. Benson?

 

 

 

Horace Archibald Benson. 1st London Scottish. Pte. 2368 TP/519.  France. 15/9/1914.  Comm. 2/Lt South Lancs Reg. 22/2/1915.  SWB List.

 

[Mark1959]

So perhaps those without a white band are already commissioned?

Edited 1 October , 2017 by Mark1959

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

Noted a number of those remaining do not have white band - instructors rather than candidates?

So perhaps those without a white band are already commissioned?

 

Sorry, I should have picked out those without cadet badges.

Edited 1 October , 2017 by GWF1967

[Terry_Reeves]

I have two similar photos taken at Kelham Hall. Those with the white bands are officer cadets. The others are likely to be instructors. Just out of interest, one of those photographs is 42 inches long and shows not only the cadets, but also every member of staff involved with the OCB. No names sadly.   Kelham Hall is open to the public, or was 18 months ago and is worth a visit. The owner of the hall, a hotelier, nor his staff have very little knowledge of its WW1 history and the guide was suprised when I told him about the OCB.

 

TR

Edited 1 October , 2017 by Terry_Reeves

[GWF1967]

A.W. Wilson.

C.H. Price. Canadian?

J. Dunning. R.F?

[GWF1967]

5 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

I have two similar photos taken at Kelham Hall. Those with the white bands are officer cadets.  Just out of interest, one of those photographs is 42 inches long and shows not only the cadets, but also every member of staff involved with the OCB. No names sadly.   Kelham Hall is open to the public, or was 18 months ago and is worth a visit. The owner of the hall, a hotelier, nor his staff have very little knowledge of its WW1 history and the guide was suprised when I told him about the OCB.

 

TR

Do you have a date for your photograph Terry?  I wonder if any of the instructors shown here are pictured.

[Terry_Reeves]

 I don't I am afraid, however the OCB at Kelham Hall started in 1917. I will have a look through my material and see if I can find an exact date and check the photographs.

 

TR

[GWF1967]

4 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

10. J. Dunning? - think name ends in a y - looking at other Dunning there is great differences in how the surname is spelt

John Duminy.  Trooper 17th Mounted Rifles. S.A.D.F.  G. S/W Africa. Nov.1914.  Comm. 2/Lt R.E. T. Res. B.

Edited 1 October , 2017 by GWF1967

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

 

C.H. Price. Canadian?

 

 

Capel Hereward Price.  A.S.C. Lt.  - R.E.  Lt. Salonika. Nov. 1915.

[GWF1967]

On 01/10/2017 at 22:16, GWF1967 said:

A.W. Wilson.

 

 

A.W. Wilson.  W/Riding Reg. 2/Lt - Capt. R.E. Att. 17th Corps. H.Q.

[GWF1967]

2 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said:

I have two similar photos taken at Kelham Hall. Those with the white bands are officer cadets. The others are likely to be instructors. Just out of interest, one of those photographs is 42 inches long and shows not only the cadets, but also every member of staff involved with the OCB. No names sadly.   Kelham Hall is open to the public, or was 18 months ago and is worth a visit. The owner of the hall, a hotelier, nor his staff have very little knowledge of its WW1 history and the guide was suprised when I told him about the OCB.

 

TR

LLT says Newark was the R.E. Signals School, would officer cadets from outside the R.E. be taught there too?  ( Douglas James Phillips. Nthn. Cyclist Batt. M.G.C.  Comm. 2/Lt - 1917)