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RNR trawler section


trawler

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I am trying to research an RNR seaman during WW1. I have downloaded his files from National Archives London. He initially served in 10th Destroyer Flotilla at Harwich/Dover. From 17 October 1917 he is endorsed as a deckhand and is shown as serving on trawlers, HT Speedwell 3, Kosmos and HT Honeybee until demob in April 1919.   

Is there any way of finding out the service areas or base for these vessels ? Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

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Speedwell

1899 Launched. 1914 requisitioned in November and converted to a minesweeper.  1915 Renamed Speedwell II in February  1916 Converted to a "Q" ship. 1918 Lost . Took the ground in Mounts Bay on 15th July  and broke up.  Operated under the names of  Q33, Glendale, Roger. and Vanda as a "Q"ship. Port registration H 481. Admiralty number 1908.

 

Bob

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Kosmos.

Launched 1916. Built in Aberdeen. Owned by East Coast SFC(Aberdeen) Ltd. Requisitioned in April and converted to a minesweeper.  1919 Returned to owners. Port Registration A617. Admiralty number 3273.

 

Bob

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The term "trawlers" can often embrace trawlers and drifters and it is often difficult to tell from the records which is meant. Especially in the case of SPEEDWELL because there was a SPEEDWELL II (Hull trawler, Admiralty No.392 - mentioned by little bob). SPEEDWELL III (Fraserburgh drifter, Admiralty No. 2154) and SPEEDWELL V (Banff drifter, Admiralty No.2264). There was also a Peterhead drifter (and other larger vessels) carrying the same name. If "HT Speedwell 3" is correct, it would be the Fraserburgh drifter.

 

The drifter SPEEDWELL III was parented by HMS KOSMOS at the Le Havre Base from 1 July 1917, the hired trawler KOSMOS (described by littel bob) being the 'nominal ship' from that date. The hired Peterhead drifter HONEY BEE (Admiralty No.2292) was based at Le Havre, parented by KOSMOS, from the same date. KOSMOS was the Le Havre parent until April 1919 and both drifters remained based on KOSMOS until the same date.

 

It would appear that he was borne on the books of KOSMOS at Le Havre, while actually serving as a deck hand in the two drifters.

 

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2 hours ago, little bob said:

Speedwell

1899 Launched. 1914 requisitioned in November and converted to a minesweeper.  1915 Renamed Speedwell II in February  1916 Converted to a "Q" ship. 1918 Lost . Took the ground in Mounts Bay on 15th July  and broke up.  Operated under the names of  Q33, Glendale, Roger. and Vanda as a "Q"ship. Port registration H 481. Admiralty number 1908.

HT SPEEDWELL II was Admiralty No.392 (and Q.23 as a Q-Ship according to "Q Ships and their Story" but this could be an error). Admiralty No. 1908 was HT SPEETON

Edited by horatio2
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Horatio 2

 

Thank you for correcting the Admiralty number for Speedwell II.  I believe that  H M S Q23 was  the three masted schooner  Result.

 

Bob

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Thank you to little bob and horatio 2 for explanation so far. This is beginning to come together. There is another small query 

The file shows my seaman at "Victory" from 23/7/17 July until 16/10/17. Between those dates is an entry as shown below.

 

"Victory" (Sec F)

                                                                                                             from Vic 1 (G 2)             29/9//17

That is it as shown, Sec F and  G2,  any ideas ? 

 

Regards,

 

Trawler

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His time on the books of the pay offices at VICTORY and VICTORY I ran from 23 July to 16 October 1917 - less than three months. He came from service in destroyers and moved on to service in drifters, probably employed as a deck hand. "Sec F" and "G2" are probably not VICTORY-parented boats or ships and may instead refer to divisions of the VICTORY pay offices, as he was transferred from the Fleet ratings books to the Auxiliary Patrol books. Best guess.

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The above seems logical leaving Victory on 16/10/17 having been reclassified as a DA (deckhand) later a LG DA (Leading Deckhand ?).

Is there a possibility that this man was a seaman/gunner ? 6 weeks at "Excellent/Whale Island 4/10 to 12/11/14. Is the G2 connected to that time. I know that in September of 1917 he was ashore at Portsmouth.

Are there any lists available that give service locations for hired trawlers or drifters.

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On ‎03‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 00:27, trawler said:

Are there any lists available that give service locations for hired trawlers or drifters.

In which boats are you interested?

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Interested in the three vessels named above. I am just trying to get any info that may be available regarding locations, duties or anything at all really. 

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My Post #4 above gives the location of all three boats (at Le Havre) during your period of interest. HONEY BEE and SPEEDWELL III were employed there as a net drifters. KOSMOS, the nominal parent ship at Le Havre, was operational as a minesweeping trawler. Before 1 July 1917, when KOSMOS became the parent ship, all three boats were probably employed at Le Havre but borne on the books of HMS VICTORY II at Portsmouth.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thank you for above answers.  I have a more general question re RNR service pre WW1. My seaman signed up to RNR along with a pal, both fishermen, near enough neighbours, joined same day , consecutive numbers, trips to Portsmouth usually coincided. My seaman is at Portsmouth/"Venerable" 13/7/13, discharged from "Venerable" 9/8/13 after Manoeuvers. On 19/8/13 he signs on to S.S. Runic as A.B. for a round trip to Australia signing off at Tilbury on 14/12/13. The pal signs on to SS Empress of Britain for a round trip Liverpool- Quebec on 15/10/13 signs off 7/11/13. Would these deep sea trips have been connected to RNR training or arranged by RN as the ability and conduct ratings are both listed on their RNR records ?.

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Periodic (annual) RNR training would have been carried out in RN ships and establishments. Employment in as seamen in ships of the Mercantile Marine would have been their career choice as mariners (in this case switching from employment in the fishing fleet to foreign-going vessels).and would not have been arranged by the RN.

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If a man enrolled as a seaman rating in the RNR at this time, he was required , during his first five years of service, to be employed at sea, in a deck capacity. This could be either as a merchant seaman or a fisherman. I understand that details of any such service had to be entered into his RV2 record book, which he carried.  I understand that these details were then transferred on to his record when he visited the relevant office which paid him his retainer. If the man intended to sign up for a voyage lasting longer than six months then he had to get permission. This is one reason why the recruitment of fishermen into the RNR was encouraged before WW1. They were readily available in a call-up situation.

ernest james

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  • 2 years later...

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