Rishon le-Zion Great War exhibition - assistance

[Eran Tearosh]

Hi everyone.

 

Following the battles fought during The Capture of Junction Station (Nov. 13-14, 1917) the EEF forces entered the Jewish colonies South-East of Jaffa. For many, this was the first encounter with European style communities after 2-3 years! The Desert Mounted Corps camped in that area, and General Chuvell established the DMC HQ in Rehovot (Also known as Deiran) for a few months. For some of that period, the ANZAC Division camped in Rishon le-Zion (Near the NZ battlefield of Ayun Kara) and around. 

 

Without going through all the process that led to that (Lots of energy was put into this...) - The Rishon le-Zion Museum is going to have an exhibition about Rishon during that period of transfer from the Ottoman Empire to the British Empire, in other words - the Great War. Gradually, they became very interested! I received over the last few days several photos of things they found in their storerooms, and a request for assistance in clarifying that they are from that time. So....

 

First, two artillery pieces:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can anyone verify if these are from 1917? And if so - Ottoman or British? 

 

Thanks,

 

Eran

   

Edited 26 August , 2017 by Eran Tearosh

[Eran Tearosh]

Second, this helmet and equipment: 

1917? Ottoman or British?

 

 

 

 

Eran

[godwinson]

Hi Eran,

 

Greetings from New Zealand.

 

First off I am strictly an amateur in these matters and will no doubt have my views corrected by those with a much better handle on these things.

 

I haven't managed to decipher all the markings yet but please find a link to a page about the 18 pounder British QF (quick firing) gun which was the main field piece for WW1, mainly operated by the Royal Field Artillery. It contains a schematic for a Mk 11 High Explosive shell including dimensions. https://hubpages.com/education/World-One-War-Quick-Firing-18-Pounder. and also http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles/18pdr.html. And yes, most definitely in use in 1917.

 

The ammunition bandolier with that distinctive cut to the flaps is entirely consistent with 1917 and the Royal Field Artillery being the 5 pouch Pattern 1903 worn by mounted, non cavalry troops. See here for more  details http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1903/components/1903_bandoliers.html.

 

As to the helmet well that looks to me like a British Brodie Mk1 again entirely consistent with 1917 although probably more synonymous with the Western Front.

 

 

Edited 27 August , 2017 by godwinson
missed a word off

[godwinson]

Me again,

 

found this thread about deciphering the markings on those shell casings

 

[assafx]

eran,

you need better photographs of the headstamps and you will get more answers in the Arms forum.

 

i don't know about finds from rishon but there are from rehovot and nes ziona.

 

Assaf

Edited 27 August , 2017 by assafx

[Eran Tearosh]

All,

 

Several items from the Great War period are on the regular display of the museum. For example:

 

 

 

However, several additional items were found. I was able to help with most, but here a few more:

 

 

The first looks like a British cavalry sabre and the second is Turkish, but I'm not sure if it's from WWI or before.

 

 

3 shell cases: 

 

 

 

 

Any info will help. Thanks!

 

Eran

 

 

 

[Stuart24]

Hi Eran,

 

The British sword looks very much like a 1796 pattern light cavalry sabre, long out of use by the First World War.

 

Cheers

Stuart

 

[assafx]

Eran,

the second shell case was made by Patronenfabrik Polte Magdeburg, Magdenburg .  it was made in April 1___ (you need to get a better photograph and light so i can see the rest of the year) also, you need to measure the case dimensions in order to ID the caliber and type of gun. Sp252 is  inspection mark for Patronenfabrik Polte Magdeburg .

 

the other two seems to be 18PDR MKII from 1915 and 1916. i still need to figure out the manufacturers but C.F indicates a full load of Cordite.

 

 

Assaf