Gillemont Farm

[chrislad]

hi

 

off to gillemont farm on Friday to see where my great grandfather fell - have some trench maps but as a total amateur can anyone talk me through the jargon of this counter attack?

 

where is the DUNCAN LANE trench? I can see duncan ave and etc

BLUNT NOSE is marked on as the British attack from the west up this trench

germans resisted in GILLEMONT and WILLOW trenches (both marked)

 

and then a slight counter in the SE - I presume the area marked GLEN LANE?

 

TIA

 

 

Edited 22 August , 2017 by chrislad

[WhiteStarLine]

Hi chrislad, enjoy the moment.  We were there September last year as my grandfather's brigade assaulted the Hindenburg Line from the next farm (Quennemont) in September 1918.  We still have an original signal talking about 77mm firing onto Support Coy as they went up the Claymore Valley.

 

Are you looking for help with the military abbreviations or the specific trench map locations?

 

There are some very helpful sites out there that will let you overlay a trench map onto a modern map and adjust the opacity so you see the original trench map and the modern equivalent.  The National Library of Scotland has the most accurate fit and tmapper.com and Munnin Project both let you convert an original location into modern co-ordinates then display on Google Maps.

 

Edit:  Can you post a larger image of the photographic enlargement?  It is the key to understanding what was going on.

Edited 23 August , 2017 by WhiteStarLine

[chrislad]

On 24/08/2017 at 00:06, WhiteStarLine said:

Hi chrislad, enjoy the moment.  We were there September last year as my grandfather's brigade assaulted the Hindenburg Line from the next farm (Quennemont) in September 1918.  We still have an original signal talking about 77mm firing onto Support Coy as they went up the Claymore Valley.

 

Are you looking for help with the military abbreviations or the specific trench map locations?

 

There are some very helpful sites out there that will let you overlay a trench map onto a modern map and adjust the opacity so you see the original trench map and the modern equivalent.  The National Library of Scotland has the most accurate fit and tmapper.com and Munnin Project both let you convert an original location into modern co-ordinates then display on Google Maps.

 

Edit:  Can you post a larger image of the photographic enlargement?  It is the key to understanding what was going on.

 

hi there - we went yesterday and was very interesting!

didn't realise how close it was to the American cemetery 

 

as a total amateur to this I was just looking for a laymans version of what happened

 

re Edit:  Can you post a larger image of the photographic enlargement? - which were you referring to?

On 24/08/2017 at 00:06, WhiteStarLine said:

Hi chrislad, enjoy the moment.  We were there September last year as my grandfather's brigade assaulted the Hindenburg Line from the next farm (Quennemont) in September 1918.  We still have an original signal talking about 77mm firing onto Support Coy as they went up the Claymore Valley.

 

Are you looking for help with the military abbreviations or the specific trench map locations?

 

There are some very helpful sites out there that will let you overlay a trench map onto a modern map and adjust the opacity so you see the original trench map and the modern equivalent.  The National Library of Scotland has the most accurate fit and tmapper.com and Munnin Project both let you convert an original location into modern co-ordinates then display on Google Maps.

 

Edit:  Can you post a larger image of the photographic enlargement?  It is the key to understanding what was going on.

 

hi there - we went yesterday and was very interesting!

didn't realise how close it was to the American cemetery 

 

as a total amateur to this I was just looking for a laymans version of what happened

 

re Edit:  Can you post a larger image of the photographic enlargement? - which were you referring to?

 

for some photos of gillemont

[JohnSchultz]

Sorry to be rather late (probably too late) to join this topic. My grandfather died at the Knoll (right next door to Gillemont Farm) on 19/8/17 and is buried in the Villers-Faucon cemetery. My brother and I visited last August to mark the centenary. We were (still are) amateurs as well; and we found KW Mitchinson's book entitled "Epehy" (in the paperback Battleground Europe series) very helpful indeed. There is a (short) chapter on the Knoll and Gillemont Farm. I bought a second-hand (ex public library) copy of the book for next to nothing on Amazon. John

[Guest]

Good morning all!  I, too, am a latecomer, having just found this site.  TBH, I have a bit of a mystery, and it concerns Guillemont/Gillemont Farm and the 6th Dragoon Guards located in support of 5th Kings Lancers who were occupying it around 20 - 24 June 1917.  My maternal grandfather, D/9947 Pte William Victor Collins, of 4 Tp, B Sqn 6th DG [Carabiniers] was one of two men killed in action by a German bombardment on 22 June 1917, according to the War Diary entry - WO-95-1_6.  I've only just located them and downloaded them in their entirety..  Both he and his fellow casualty, D/616 Pte E McDonald, are buried side-by-side in Templeux-le-Guerard Communal Cemetery, just outside the village of that name.   However, all the details, and their headstones, give the date of their death as 21st June.  The War Diary of the Regiment is quite clear - two men were killed on that day - none the day previous, or the day after. 

 

Every document we have access to mentions his date of death as 21st June, when it is overwhelmingly likely that he and Pte McDonald were those un-named fatal casualties noted in the diary for 23rd June 1917.

 

Now what?

 

We have visited his grave, BTW, and I left him one of my silver officer's collar badges to keep him company.

 

Thanks for reading and please accept my apologies for butting in.

 

tac foley

[Mike Cross]

2 hours ago, tac foley said:

My maternal grandfather, D/9947 Pte William Victor Collins, of 4 Tp, B Sqn 6th DG [Carabiniers] was one of two men killed in action by a German bombardment on 22 June 1917, according to the War Diary entry - WO-95-1_6.  I've only just located them and downloaded them in their entirety..  Both he and his fellow casualty, D/616 Pte E McDonald, are buried side-by-side in Templeux-le-Guerard Communal Cemetery, just outside the village of that name.   However, all the details, and their headstones, give the date of their death as 21st June. 

 

The same date anomaly applies to the men of the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars who are recorded as being killed in action June 22nd in various diaries and accounts during and following the bombardment of Gillemont Farm.  Bombardment is said to have begun at 1am on the night of 21/22 June.  Every official record seen records their deaths as occurring June 21st.

 

Mike C

[Guest]

Many thanks for that, Mr Cross.  We are presently in Portland Oregon, but will be able to quote verbatim from the 6th DG diaries when we return to UK.

 

Thanks again.

 

tac

[ianshuter]

On 11/09/2018 at 13:35, Mike Cross said:

 

The same date anomaly applies to the men of the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars who are recorded as being killed in action June 22nd in various diaries and accounts during and following the bombardment of Gillemont Farm.  Bombardment is said to have begun at 1am on the night of 21/22 June.  Every official record seen records their deaths as occurring June 21st.

 

Mike C

I am researching L/Corporal 285033 William Alison BLELOCH 1st/1st Oxfordshire Hussars who died in shelling at the same location on July 1st 1917. I have the war diary if you need it. Just in case you don't have it (they cost money back in 2018) I have pasted the 16th to the 23rd June beloq

[Mike Cross]

Hello Ian

I did some delving into Blelock (as often spelt) some years ago.  Some modest info is held in the archives of the Oxfordshire Yeomanry (at the Soldiers of Oxfordshire Museum) but no known photo.  Is this family or maybe local research.  Be good to know what you uncover.

Mike

[ianshuter]

1 minute ago, Mike Cross said:

Hello Ian

I did some delving into Blelock (as often spelt) some years ago.  Some modest info is held in the archives of the Oxfordshire Yeomanry (at the Soldiers of Oxfordshire Museum) but no known photo.  Is this family or maybe local research.  Be good to know what you uncover.

Mike

Hi Mike

Researching him as part of wider project to transcribe all the war memorials across South Warwickshire - effectively without planning to putting the Roll of Honour book online.

Here is what we have so far https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php/war-memorial-transcriptions/war-memorial-transcritions-a-d/bascote-heath-wm/16-the-men-who-fell-in-ww1/1800-lcpl-wa-bleloch2 However we are still actively searching for more of his family history

He is named on the Bascote Heath and Ufton war memorials (link to Bascote memorial in link above)

[Mike Cross]

Good stuff Ian.  Glad to see the work that you are doing.  Helped me also - sorted out my personal confusion between Balscote and Bascote.  He was a pre-war man, maybe joined 1909/10.  One press report that I discovered was in the Lynn Times August 1915 relating to an earlier injury.  The 2/1st QOOH were based in King's Lynn and the newspaper briefly considered them to be 'local'.  Unable to access my files currently.  We have a photo of his original grave marker.

Mike

[ianshuter]

13 hours ago, Mike Cross said:

Hello Ian

I did some delving into Blelock (as often spelt) some years ago.  Some modest info is held in the archives of the Oxfordshire Yeomanry (at the Soldiers of Oxfordshire Museum) but no known photo.  Is this family or maybe local research.  Be good to know what you uncover.

Mike

Hello Mike, I asked our "people finder general" Wendy who lives in Australia (but family hails from S. Warks) to take a look at him and she has found a lot more info to tie together what was really quite a sad childhood for William whose mother Alison seems to have died giving birth to him hence the normally female middle name. I have put all the info on his page https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php/war-memorial-transcriptions/war-memorial-transcritions-a-d/bascote-heath-wm/16-the-men-who-fell-in-ww1/1800-lcpl-wa-bleloch2

[ianshuter]

8 minutes ago, Mike Cross said:

Good stuff Ian.  Glad to see the work that you are doing.  Helped me also - sorted out my personal confusion between Balscote and Bascote.  He was a pre-war man, maybe joined 1909/10.  One press report that I discovered was in the Lynn Times August 1915 relating to an earlier injury.  The 2/1st QOOH were based in King's Lynn and the newspaper briefly considered them to be 'local'.  Unable to access my files currently.  We have a photo of his original grave marker.

Mike

The original marker would be great, in between your message and this reply I updated his family history - see post

[ianshuter]

41 minutes ago, Mike Cross said:

Good stuff Ian.  Glad to see the work that you are doing.  Helped me also - sorted out my personal confusion between Balscote and Bascote.  He was a pre-war man, maybe joined 1909/10.  One press report that I discovered was in the Lynn Times August 1915 relating to an earlier injury.  The 2/1st QOOH were based in King's Lynn and the newspaper briefly considered them to be 'local'.  Unable to access my files currently.  We have a photo of his original grave marker.

Mike

Site updated again - attached birth registration for William (believed 18 Aug 1888) and mother Alison's death on Aug 30 1888 I think from sepsis but handwriting difficult to readAlison Bleloch death.pdf

William Bleloch birth.pdf

[Mike Cross]

Quality work again !  Thank you.  My records indicate the following - he was wounded on 26/05/1915 at Zouave Wood, Killed in Action July 1st 1917 at Templeaux Quarries aged 27.  Buried at  TEMPLEUX-LE-GUERARD BRITISH CEMETERY alongside many of his colleagues.  Presently unable to access the grave marker photo and it may take me a while to do so.

Mike

[Mike Cross]

On 22/03/2023 at 11:58, ianshuter said:

The original marker would be great, in between your message and this reply I updated his family history - see post

Not a quality copy of the original photo but the best presently available.

MC

[ianshuter]

Many thanks Mike, I have updated the page accordingly

https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1800:lcpl-wa-bleloch2&catid=16:the-men-who-fell-in-ww1