Auquhorthies Posted 14 August , 2017 Share Posted 14 August , 2017 (edited) There is a WW1 gun in a flooded quarry I own in NE Scotland. I'm making plans to drain the water which is over 25ft deep in places and to locate and retrieve it. Pretty sure it's there, I have the newspaper article describing the event, witnessed by 100's of people. What typically happens when war trophies are rediscovered, found or retrieved? Any examples recently? Thanks Edited 14 August , 2017 by Auquhorthies Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 14 August , 2017 Share Posted 14 August , 2017 Why was the gun deposited in the quarry in the first place? Any chance you could post the newspaper article here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 14 August , 2017 Share Posted 14 August , 2017 Hello, and welcome to the Forum! I would say that whoever officially "owned" it when it was put there has disclaimed their ownership and that, if you own the quarry, it now belongs to you (I am assuming that there is no gold or silver in its metalwork!) and you can do what you like with it. In any case, if someone else can establish title to it, you have a right to reclaim from them any expenses you have incurred in bringing it up. The best way to proceed would be to contact the local council to see if they have any records as to why, and by whom, it was put into the quarry. The newspaper article may also throw more light on that. If any person or organisation turns up saying it's theirs, you should tell them to come and get it, and remove it from your land. But first of all, you should have a word with the local police, who will be able to tell you whether there are any special laws which might forbid you from keeping it (such as, if it's not been formally deactivated) or might restrict the way you deal with it. Good luck! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auquhorthies Posted 14 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 14 August , 2017 Here's the article from the Aberdeen Journal, April 1920. I've got a team together, and am currently liaising with SEPA about discharging the water. So hopefully we'll get some progress soon. I'll keep folks here posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 How odd - some form of 'redemption', perhaps? Presumably the gun had been captured by the relevant Battalion of the Gordon Highlanders - might the regimental museum be interested in assisting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 In the years between WW1 & 2 most towns and villages had a piece of German artillery, I believe they were scraped during WW2. I suppose they represented the bulk, if not all, of the German field artillery holding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auquhorthies Posted 15 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2017 The Gordon Highlander museum has a great facility in Aberdeen, it may be that I talk to them about the long term home for the gun, if it can be retrieved. In terms pushing them into quarries and ponds, it was pretty common. In fact, the same weekend that this gun was dumped, others were pushed into the river at Keith 20 miles up the road from here. See attached article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServiceRumDiluted Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 A fascinating story that I will follow with interest. It's not too hard to imagine that to wounded and traumatised ex servicemen these trophies were the stuff of nightmares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 As SRD says you have a very interesting story that is unveiling,and I will also be following as it unravels. Do you know anything more as to wether those dumped at Keith were salvaged in the next conflict or could they still be there waiting for recovery? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auquhorthies Posted 15 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2017 (edited) As far as I know or understand, the guns at Keith were pushed into relatively shallow river water, and were recovered shortly after (maybe as part if the WW2 material collection effort). There was a gun recovered from the 'Witches Pool' in Dornach in the 1990's which was scrapped. More recently a large trench mortar in Campbelltown was restored and placed on show in the town. The only other existing example is in the IWM. The Town Councl minutes from Oldmeldrum discuss the imminent arrival of a gun in a number of meetings during 1919, variously identifying it as a 'field gun' 'cannon' or 'trench mortar' only one meeting mentions it after it had arrived (assigned to the town by the War Trophy Commission). In that entry, it's simply referred to as 'the gun now stored in the territorial drill hall' More to come when I'm ready to pump water from the quarry after I get approval from the Scottish environmental protection agency (SEPA) Edited 15 August , 2017 by Auquhorthies Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 19 hours ago, jay dubaya said: Why was the gun deposited in the quarry in the first place? Dumping things in bodies of water is how previous generations disposed of things. Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 Fairly recently someone in the Shetland Islands was intending to dispose of a very rusty MGB GT sports car by dropping it in the sea. Fortunately the car was rescued and now has a new lease of life. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham dave Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 Agreat war trophy gun was dumped in the river Wear at Stanhope County Durham shortly after presentation by returned servicemen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 This thread astounds me. I had absolutely no idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 This old thread is quite interesting, if only for the sheer numbers of weapons distributed, and the story of the gun at Coniston that Jimmy Hewitson VC took exception to; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auquhorthies Posted 15 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2017 (edited) I did see the old thread, in fact it was the reason I posted this here. The 2013 thread also identifies a gun in a quarry in Aberdeenshire, but that was a different one about 15 miles from me. I do have some of the same recovery team who located that one working with me now though. They found it 30 or 40 ft down in a filled in quarry, but it couldn't be removed for some reason. This one is in 20-25 ft of water + whatever junk and debris chucked in over the last 97 years. Hoping it'll be retrieved by the 100th anniversary. Edited 15 August , 2017 by Auquhorthies Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham dave Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 7 hours ago, durham dave said: Agreat war trophy gun was dumped in the river Wear at Stanhope County Durham shortly after presentation by returned servicemen.. an account of this incident is on the northeast war memorials site all though it is said to have been the work of local returned quarry men in the village can someone attach a link please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 DD Hope the link works http://www.newmp.org.uk/article.php?categoryid=100&articleid=1221&displayorder=6 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham dave Posted 15 August , 2017 Share Posted 15 August , 2017 (edited) thanks knotty also an interesting thread on this site about two pow buried in Stanhope who where formaly buried in Stanhope old cemetery legend has it that the pow from stanhope camp where working in Weardales quarrys when the local boys where away with the D.L.I. Edited 17 August , 2017 by durham dave spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auquhorthies Posted 16 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2017 (edited) Knotty, thanks for the link. That story is similar to the one I've highlighted and seems to reflect a mood across the country in 1919-1920. Here in Oldmeldrum, it was also remembered that the local constables who came to stop the gun removal ended up helping them push it into the quarry. Edited 16 August , 2017 by Auquhorthies Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 16 August , 2017 Share Posted 16 August , 2017 I wonder why it was not retrieved for scrap in WW2. Only 20 yrs later so surely it was not totally forgotten. From what I've read they were taking everything they could find for scrap metal at the time.Hope you can recover it & this event has a happy ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham dave Posted 17 August , 2017 Share Posted 17 August , 2017 we must remember that in the Weardale incident that men are waiting for class Z demobilization and German POW are quarrying and mining at the same rate of pay as a British private who had signed for the duration and could still be fighting in Russia. reguards dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkley remembers Posted 22 August , 2017 Share Posted 22 August , 2017 I suppose ownership of this artillery piece is one thing but i would imagine that the question is whether you can lawfully possess it. Suspect that should you wish to recover this gun then a call to the local firearms licensing department might be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServiceRumDiluted Posted 23 August , 2017 Share Posted 23 August , 2017 (edited) Must be obsolete calibre surely.... Mauser T Gewehr is apparently. Edited 23 August , 2017 by ServiceRumDiluted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkley remembers Posted 23 August , 2017 Share Posted 23 August , 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, ServiceRumDiluted said: Must be obsolete calibre surely.... Mauser T Gewehr is apparently. I would suspect that the Police would argue that it comes under Section 5 of the 1968 Firearms act i.e a prohibited weapon. Not sure that the fact that it may fire obsolete ammunition would cut much ice nor would the claim that it is an antique held as a curiosity. To possess an artillery piece you need to prove good reason and probably have it proved that it was no longer able to fire (deactivated). At the end of the day it is for the police to decide what exactly what can be done with this gun and in the case of a dispute than it is up to the Crown Court to decide. Edited 23 August , 2017 by ilkley remembers typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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