Badge identification

[rclarke]

This newly-discovered photograph shows my Great-Uncle Joseph Cufley in civvies but with a badge on his right lapel, which I cannot identify 

 

He served with the 1/6 Hampshires from September 1914 until mid 1917, when he was medically discharged (sadly, he died of TB in 1920).  He was awarded the Silver War Badge but I don't think that is what is being worn.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[clk]

Hi rclarke,

 

Any chance that you could scan the photo at the highest resolution you can, crop it to the badge area, enlarge it to just short of pixilation, and then post the image? 

 

Regards

Chris

[Stoppage Drill]

It seems to be on his right breast rather than his lapel.

 

To me, it  looks very much like the Hampshire Regiment cap badge.

[rclarke]

5 minutes ago, Stoppage Drill said:

It seems to be on his right breast rather than his lapel.

 

To me, it  looks very much like the Hampshire Regiment cap badge.

How soon after discharge would the Silver War Badge have been received?  I am assuming the photograph is post-discharge - perhaps he wore the regimental badge until he received the SWB, to avoid any insulting behaviour? Is that likely?

[Stoppage Drill]

Much more likely to be SWB than a regimental badge of course.

 

[FROGSMILE]

I'm wondering if the suit might actually be the later or alternative pattern of hospital blue, which did not have a white lining to the turn back lapel.  The tie looks to be a plain colour when most men wore a patterned tie and it might perhaps be red.  Do we know if the sitter was ever wounded?

[RaySearching]

57 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I'm wondering if the suit might actually be the later or alternative pattern of hospital blue, which did not have a white lining to the turn back lapel.  The tie looks to be a plain colour when most men wore a patterned tie and it might perhaps be red.  Do we know if the sitter was ever wounded?

 

If he was Pte Joseph H Cufley  280987 6th Hampshires he was discharged on the 18.7.17 through sickness having not served overseas

 

Ray

[rclarke]

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I'm wondering if the suit might actually be the later or alternative pattern of hospital blue, which did not have a white lining to the turn back lapel.  The tie looks to be a plain colour when most men wore a patterned tie and it might perhaps be red.  Do we know if the sitter was ever wounded?

 

Unable to scan, as the photograph is a large one in a frame but this may help:

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ISb-fsixG4dC16Vk9tSmJ5d3JWenVXWTNMRzIwTUdCaUhr

The hospital blue suit is of great interest.  My great-uncle was medically discharged and died from TB in 1920, I think.. I have his medical discharge and SWB award records. Following discharge he worked for the Navy and Army Canteen Board.

[RaySearching]

For ease of viewing 

cropped and enlarged view of badge The image still blurred

 

 

To my eyes Not a SWB

Having been and looked a numerous Hospital blues photos

My conclusion is it is more likely to be a civilian suit

although I may be wrong  

further opinions  sought

Ray

 

 

[Stoppage Drill]

I have never seen a stiff collar worn with Hospital Blues. The shirts had a comfortable soft collar.

 

They were still in use in the 1960s, (at Cambridge Military Hospital at least) worn with the red tie, but in khaki Battledress

[squirrel]

As so often happens, what the regulations state and what was actually worn vary greatly depending on what the individual can "get away" with...

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, Stoppage Drill said:

I have never seen a stiff collar worn with Hospital Blues. The shirts had a comfortable soft collar.

 

They were still in use in the 1960s, (at Cambridge Military Hospital at least) worn with the red tie, but in khaki Battledress

 

Yes, I did consider the stiff white collar, but thought that as he was having a formal portrait photo he might have made a special effort.

[FROGSMILE]

8 hours ago, RaySearching said:

For ease of viewing 

cropped and enlarged view of badge The image still blurred

 

 

To my eyes Not a SWB

Having been and looked a numerous Hospital blues photos

My conclusion is it is more likely to be a civilian suit

although I may be wrong  

further opinions  sought

Ray

 

 

 

It was an alternative pattern and used only in WW1, so presumably only made in relatively small numbers.  It was cut much more like a civilian suit, was often worn with a waistcoat and unlike the traditional pattern did not have a visible white lining.  It was however, still worn in the traditional way with a white shirt and red tie.  There are quite a few examples to be seen on the forum here.

Edited 2 August , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[RaySearching]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

t was an alternative pattern and used only in WW1, so presumably only made in relatively small numbers.  It was cut much more like a civilian suit, was often worn with a waistcoat and unlike the traditional pattern did not have a visible white lining.  It was however, still worn in the traditional way with a white shirt and red tie.  There are quite a few examples to be seen on the forum here.

 

I bow to your superior knowledge 

The tight fitting and the cut of the suit threw me 

one would have expected a hospital blue to be comfortable and loose fitting

 

Ray

 

[FROGSMILE]

33 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

 

I bow to your superior knowledge 

The tight fitting and the cut of the suit threw me 

one would have expected a hospital blue to be comfortable and loose fitting

 

Ray

 

 

Ray, there seems to be a misunderstanding, I am not saying it definitely is the hospital blue suit I referred to, the image is not good enough for that, just that it might/could be, which is why I asked if he had been wounded.

[RaySearching]

Understood  Frogsmile

Thanks 

 

Regards Ray

[rclarke]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Ray, there seems to be a misunderstanding, I am not saying it definitely is the hospital blue suit I referred to, the image is not good enough for that, just that it might/could be, which is why I asked if he had been wounded.

Just to clarify; I don't believe he was wounded but given his medical discharge, he may, perhaps, have spent some time as a patient following that?

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, rclarke said:

Just to clarify; I don't believe he was wounded but given his medical discharge, he may, perhaps, have spent some time as a patient following that?

 

Yes, if admitted to a military hospital he would have been obliged to wear hospital blue, regardless of cause of ailment. Generally sick or wounded soldiers were not admitted to civilian hospitals, other than those that were appropriated for military use, which then became military anyway.  In short the military sick were as a rule kept separate from civilian sick.

[rclarke]

Thanks to everybody for their help.  I will attempt to improve the image quality for clarification.