ForeignGong Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 Hi Has anyone added facts, photos and info on to these soldiers, if so what is the deal, can anyone add info etc??? I notice they are trying to get you to subscribe to their genealogy records, which looks very much like Ancestry and FMP. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 47 minutes ago, ForeignGong said: Hi Has anyone added facts, photos and info on to these soldiers, if so what is the deal, can anyone add info etc??? I notice they are trying to get you to subscribe to their genealogy records, which looks very much like Ancestry and FMP. Peter I have added information photo's etc. Once signed in anyone can add, I don't subscribe to their records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjwmacro Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 1 hour ago, ForeignGong said: Hi Has anyone added facts, photos and info on to these soldiers, if so what is the deal, can anyone add info etc??? I notice they are trying to get you to subscribe to their genealogy records, which looks very much like Ancestry and FMP. Peter Peter As GWF stated - once signed in anyone can add to an individual's "Life". A subscription is required to access the records - which are provided through FMP. This is all explained on the Lives website. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 13 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 13 July , 2017 Thank you all three of you for your comments. I was looking at adding LG's for some foreign awards recipients as I come across them. That way it is already in the public domain and there is no copyright. I'm doing it for the families of the service men and women and not for any monetary gain, as I don't have anything unique to these service people. Hopefully the IWM won't "franchise the Lives of the First project out to a pay-for-access site-almost certainly FMP.-as a permanent arrangement" . This is why I have the utmost respect for the AWM as every thing is free on the web and only costs if manpower is involved getting better copies of papers and photos. As the IWM is government controlled then they should be the same. Just my thoughts. I will start adding as I go as a lot of families have no idea their relatives are entitled to extra awards and that is why I answer queries on this forum regards foreign awards. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 I frequently add details to IWM Lives - and have contacted many folk for permission to add photographs. I agree that it is important to think about what is added and to check the references that can be accessed with subscription e.g. MIC information is transcribed (FMP refs) whereas now available via Ancestry or as originally via The National Archive. It is also difficult sometimes to correct information although this can be addressed by adding information via a story. Details can be added with no charge - after registering details. I have found personal family details via various sites - when I originally didn't trust them! As I get older I feel that it is a matter of choice - Military History may well be exploited by some for profit. Barbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 I can understand handing over control and access to IWMs own information to a third party for commercial reasons. But encouraging the general public to build a resource and then handing it over for commercial gain sounds a bit dubious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 They asked me to give them the biographies of the eleven British soldiers sheltered by the village of Iron and subsequently executed in Guise in February 1915. I have written these as part of a book I am writing on the tragedy. I said I would, but after reading the small print, I have subsequently changed my mind. I am fed up with organisations appropriating other people's work, made free of charge, and then sticking a pay booth in front of it. I did not do my research for other people to make money out of it. I will put the biographies on the website dedicated to the tragedy and anyone interested can read it free of charge. I have registered the copyright and if any of my stuff turns up behind a paywall on IWMs Lives of the First World War, then I will sue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Earley Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 Going off on a slight tangent, what is the forum's opinion of the "Every Man Remembered" site run by the Royal British Legion? A few years ago, I researched my village war memorial at Cocking in West Sussex. I was planning to post the stories onto the site. The first I posted was for Private Tinney Keat Sweet at http://www.everymanremembered.org/profiles/soldier/1437904/. Unfortunately, the site has such a strong profanity checker, that the name of my village now appears as " ****ing " and his regiment as the "Royal Sus*** Regiment ". Rather pathetic! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markr Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 Thanks Graeme for the reply on Bertie CRICK I was so pleased. Mark Cooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Earley Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 3 minutes ago, Markr said: s Graeme for the reply on Bertie CRICK I was so pleased. Are you sure that this is on the right page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 2 hours ago, Hedley Malloch said: I am fed up with organisations appropriating other people's work, made free of charge, and then sticking a pay booth in front of it. I did not do my research for other people to make money out of it. hear,hear HM- well done- I was crocked from working a few years back and put myself forward to do a Roll for Wanstead in North-East London,now part of the London Borough of Redbridge-and not covered by others doing rolls for it's constituent parts. It keeps my brain alive (what is left of it), teaches me a different set of archive and online skills and keeps me ticking along when I cannot get further to other archives for another long-term interest. Happy to do it Only 365 lives but I might as well do them properly-as I doubt anyone will be daft enough to do it again. My part is just the collector of the info.- I feel sure that my job is the same as with you-let the story of good men in the past be told-and I am just the cypher for putting together their lives and achievements. But I do it so the info. is free for anyone to use-I will probably end up paying for hard copies of it myself to go round a few locations. But I will see Hell freeze before I let it go to the IWM site- to charge for remembrance and the goodwill of folks to do the work is a disgrace- and the beggars had plenty of public money to prepare these things as well. Makes me wonder whether the current management at IWM only moved there after Soho "clip joints" were closed down by the Met. And,of course, If I pay for hard copies, then there is one institution that will not be given a copy-Yep. IWM-What? So it can be boxed up in a hangar at Duxford before being quietly shoved in a skip. No way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 2 hours ago, Hedley Malloch said: They asked me to give them the biographies of the eleven British soldiers sheltered by the village of Iron and subsequently executed in Guise in February 1915. I have written these as part of a book I am writing on the tragedy. I said I would, but after reading the small print, I have subsequently changed my mind. I am fed up with organisations appropriating other people's work, made free of charge, and then sticking a pay booth in front of it. I did not do my research for other people to make money out of it. I will put the biographies on the website dedicated to the tragedy and anyone interested can read it free of charge. I have registered the copyright and if any of my stuff turns up behind a paywall on IWMs Lives of the First World War, then I will sue them. I took part in the trial when they launched, I wasn't overly impressed. I've made all my research available either online or at the end of an email. Cost hundreds of hours to put together but I wouldn't specifically want it to end up on a site where it ends up behind a psywall. I also intend to use some of it in a book. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said: I took part in the trial when they launched, I wasn't overly impressed. I've made all my research available either online or at the end of an email. Cost hundreds of hours to put together but I wouldn't specifically want it to end up on a site where it ends up behind a psywall. I also intend to use some of it in a book. Craig Wholly agree- the right outlook-Anything I do I want to be free at point of use. "Lives of the First World War" is best avoided as it actually RESTRICTS the spread of the information- IWM's contributor terms are so severe, that if I put stuff on "Lives" it would effectively stop anyone else using it,as IWM's "proprietary rights" in the stuff are just too restrictive on anyone else- and if that is added to by monetary charges as well, then it's not for me. A great pity that IWM's corporate strategy has become so exploitative. It had a fund of goodwill which looks, like a higher management team of apparatchiks,lawyers and "bottom-line" accountants are destroying One very small example of this dog-in-a ditch attitude comes to mind. "Lives" is effectively being used as a come-on for FMP- with a very clear line of navigation that "Lives" will be a proprietary IWM franchise licensed off to FMP in due course. While this is not a certain outcome, it is as certain as West Ham winning the Premiership next season. (yes, that sure) FMP have the same owners as British Newspaper Archive. One small piece of imagination to boost "Lives" might have come through this- I hav just plodded through a particular newspaper on BNA-it has, as do most local papers of the Great war years, a full paragraph or two on local casualties which would really boost the IWM Lives project. It would have been nice if there was a blaket provision to allow these local obits. to be copied off BNA (Image or text converter) so that they could be uploaded by enthusiasts to "Lives". I,for one,would have been happy to plod through the newspaper run I was using (I was plodding anyway) to do that-But of course,BNA is "for-profit"-and so is Lives. But in a partnership bewteen IMW "Lives" and FMP, what a pity this little wrinkle to boost "Lives" at no cost was not thought of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 13 July , 2017 Share Posted 13 July , 2017 1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said: I've made all my research available either online or at the end of an email. Cost hundreds of hours to put together but I wouldn't specifically want it to end up on a site where it ends up behind a psywall. I also intend to use some of it in a book. Craig I have posted an image of every named man in my collection in the "postcard" thread watermark free, Forum members have provided transcriptions for a few signatures, identifying otherwise forgotton men, find an image of a man your researching in my collection, you'd be welcome to a copy. ( but don't copy/crop them and offer prints at £2 a pop on ebay). I also contact the owner of any family tree on Ancestry where "my" man is named and offer a copy. Many people are completely unaware of Grandad's war. I've paid good money for the cards, but as they aren't my family member I'm willing to share.( all positive, no irate demands for the return of property as yet). I've added about half to LOTFWW, and have been contacted through the site by various local research groups for use of the images, but the whole idea of someone else charging folk to view my cards narks so I'll probably cut LOTFWW off my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 July , 2017 Share Posted 14 July , 2017 1 hour ago, GWF1967 said: I have posted an image of every named man in my collection in the "postcard" thread watermark free, Forum members have provided transcriptions for a few signatures, identifying otherwise forgotton men, find an image of a man your researching in my collection, you'd be welcome to a copy. ( but don't copy/crop them and offer prints at £2 a pop on ebay). I also contact the owner of any family tree on Ancestry where "my" man is named and offer a copy. Many people are completely unaware of Grandad's war. I've paid good money for the cards, but as they aren't my family member I'm willing to share.( all positive, no irate demands for the return of property as yet). I've added about half to LOTFWW, and have been contacted through the site by various local research groups for use of the images, but the whole idea of someone else charging folk to view my cards narks so I'll probably cut LOTFWW off my list. A thoughtful post-I am saddened that events have taken this turn. To me, "Lives" started as a worthwhile project which would pull together an enduring database of extra information during the enthusiasms of the centennial years- and there has been an awful lot of enthusiasm and goodwill-and a lot of good stuff ferreted out hither and thither-The sheer volume of serious queries from dedicated family/local researchers (myself excluded) on GWF shows that a lot of time and effort has been expended. Many of these enterprises will wither- good work on a website will probably be lost as websites go down slowly but surely-Physical books are peripheral- I don't think anyone anywhere is fully keeping on top of what has come out in the centennial years (certainly not IWM Library,which might have been a market leader instead of a dead-in-the-water hulk, with the engine room telegraph clearly set at "Dead Stop") At first sight, "Lives" looked like a clearing house, a consolidator-that would host all those local sets of website data or the stuff of little local publications-put on a national database, available to all as an enduring legacy of the centennial years. That,at least,was my reading of the apparatchik-speak bumf that I read when "Lives" started. Some have contributed a lot-but "Lives" has failed. It is not pulling in the stuff from the local efforts to be a port of "first call" for any amateur researcher. It has become a busted flush- and the "Let's Rip Off the Mugs" attitude of IWM has ensured that a lot of stuff will be withheld from "Lives" for good. Just what IWM's current mission statement is supposed to be is a matter of supreme speculation-but "Lives" at least has proved to be a grubby attempt at raking in a few shekels,even at the price of alienating an awful lot of goodwill. To me it smacks of the bad old days of Dixons- rip-off the punter for a quick profit today, and forget about the long-term reputational damage,as long as the current year Profit and Loss shows any form of profit-and to Hell with the future. A great pity. Like you I have had the pleasure of putting a portrait of a casualty up to a family that has never seen an image- a small moment that makes the grind worthwhile. "Lives" should have been the first port of call for all- not an incomplete and inconsequential rump, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 14 July , 2017 Share Posted 14 July , 2017 (edited) Gentlemen what strikes me most is that some of the comments made show bitter criticism, pure vitriol! I have been researching for many years and remember visiting archives when actual documents were available to use. It has been my choice to subscribe to Ancestry or FMP and I will gladly share info. available if I can, as I like my money's worth. The information when transcribed can be way out - however I can also refer to digitised documents. My husband is my go to military expert and enthusiast, his choice is to spend cash on books (the web being totally alien to him) - sometimes with glaring errors but out there in print. IWM Lives gives an opportunity to remember all who served, not just casualties. It has a Facebook page and frequently photographs from the IWM Collections are included and worth a look (of course you'll need a Facebook account). It is not necessary to subscribe and it is a matter of personal choice to add photographs or other family items. For those of us whose ancestor was simply Private - there are no fine portraits in the IWM Archives or similar and books will not be written about them. The key feature for me about 'Lives' is the small box REMEMBER if you were awarded a VC you may have 18 or more folk remembering you - many have no one. Nothing can be totally protected once it is published or shared in whatever format - some ways described above for side stepping copyright have been given above!! I look forward to details of the books mentioned above being published and wish all well with their research and sales of the same. Edited 14 July , 2017 by BarbaraG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 14 July , 2017 Share Posted 14 July , 2017 (edited) I have read this thread with interest,. I have no strong views other than to say that once again the IWM displays an arrogant attitude to yet another area of its work and is ripping of those who show generosity of spirit. Edited 14 July , 2017 by David Filsell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 14 July , 2017 Share Posted 14 July , 2017 12 minutes ago, David Filsell said: tits work Freudian slip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 14 July , 2017 Share Posted 14 July , 2017 Absobloodylutely - now corrected. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 15 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2017 On 13/07/2017 at 22:36, BarbaraG said: I frequently add details to IWM Lives - and have contacted many folk for permission to add photographs. I agree that it is important to think about what is added and to check the references that can be accessed with subscription e.g. MIC information is transcribed (FMP refs) whereas now available via Ancestry or as originally via The National Archive. It is also difficult sometimes to correct information although this can be addressed by adding information via a story. Details can be added with no charge - after registering details. I have found personal family details via various sites - when I originally didn't trust them! As I get older I feel that it is a matter of choice - Military History may well be exploited by some for profit. Barbara Hi Barbara How long after adding a source does the info come up on the soldiers info sheets. I added some LG's to three men on the 13th Jul, do you know when will it be added ??? Thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 15 July , 2017 Share Posted 15 July , 2017 Hi Peter Whose life story were you looking at? Barbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 15 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2017 As I research foreign award recipients for my data base, I have had a couple of hits on Lives so just add the appropriate LG for the awards with relevant details. So as I go if I get a hit on Lives I will add more. As I said before most families know nothing about their relatives war service, every little bit helps. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCzyzyk Posted 17 July , 2017 Share Posted 17 July , 2017 Hello, my name is Charlotte and I am the Project Manager for Lives of the First World War. I'd like to clarify a few issues that have been raised here. During the centenary period, Lives of the First World War will be free to contribute to and browse - we do not charge for viewing any material that has been added by members of the public such as letters, diaries and photographs. When you become a Member of Lives of the First World War, you are asked to agree to a set of Terms and Conditions.This ensures that content you create remains your property, but IWM acquires the right to reuse this material. Any records we add to the site which are currently free online elsewhere, such as Commonwealth War Graves Commission records, are also free to view on Lives of the First World War. Searching can be done without logging in - to view such records, create a free account then log in to view. We only charge for access to premium genealogy records that are always behind paywalls on the net, such as British Army Service Records. We are currently in partnership with Findmypast, who provide access to many of the records that we feature. From early 2019 the memorial will become part of IWM’s online archive, and will always be free to access as a permanent digital memorial to the First World War. If anyone has any further questions, please do consult the Support section of the website, where you can also get in touch with us: http://support.livesofthefirstworldwar.org/ Thanks and Best Wishes, Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 17 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2017 3 hours ago, CCzyzyk said: Hello, my name is Charlotte and I am the Project Manager for Lives of the First World War. I'd like to clarify a few issues that have been raised here. During the centenary period, Lives of the First World War will be free to contribute to and browse - we do not charge for viewing any material that has been added by members of the public such as letters, diaries and photographs. When you become a Member of Lives of the First World War, you are asked to agree to a set of Terms and Conditions.This ensures that content you create remains your property, but IWM acquires the right to reuse this material. Any records we add to the site which are currently free online elsewhere, such as Commonwealth War Graves Commission records, are also free to view on Lives of the First World War. Searching can be done without logging in - to view such records, create a free account then log in to view. We only charge for access to premium genealogy records that are always behind paywalls on the net, such as British Army Service Records. We are currently in partnership with Findmypast, who provide access to many of the records that we feature. From early 2019 the memorial will become part of IWM’s online archive, and will always be free to access as a permanent digital memorial to the First World War. If anyone has any further questions, please do consult the Support section of the website, where you can also get in touch with us: http://support.livesofthefirstworldwar.org/ Thanks and Best Wishes, Charlotte Hello Charlotte So far I have added LG entries for foreign awards, MID's and MSM's for some men on "Lives of the First World War" and after a week when I go back to those men there is nothing added to their pages. How long after adding info, is it then able to be seen on their pages??? This is a wonderful project as most families know very little of their relatives war service, as you know, due to service papers not surviving and I feel that every little bit helps. We, here in Australia, are very lucky in that our records have survived. Keep up the good work. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July , 2017 Share Posted 17 July , 2017 Hello,Charlotte-Perhaps a little more "clarification" -Regret I don't translate from Weasel that easily and Weasel-English is not an option on Google Translate: 4 hours ago, CCzyzyk said: During the centenary period, Lives of the First World War will be free to contribute to and browse Q: And after the centenary period? 4 hours ago, CCzyzyk said: Terms and Conditions.This ensures that content you create remains your property, but IWM acquires the right to reuse this material. Forever and in any way you see fit-including charging? Even the original contributor? Please clarify whether IWM will charge for copies of images on LFWW on it's normal tariff (You know-where you charge a copyright fee-even when you don't own the copyright) ii) How can it be the contributor's property when they cannot recover it or stop any use of it in any way by IWM? 4 hours ago, CCzyzyk said: Any records we add to the site which are currently free online elsewhere, such as Commonwealth War Graves Commission records, are also free to view on Lives of the First World War Which translates as-any records from proprietary sources added to an entry will not be free after the centennial years but will be charged for? Is that not so? 4 hours ago, CCzyzyk said: We are currently in partnership with Findmypast, who provide access to many of the records that we feature You appear to have left out the words "paid subscription" before the word "access"-Would you kindly amend your post so that it is truthful and accurate? 4 hours ago, CCzyzyk said: and will always be free to access as a permanent digital memorial to the First World War. Free to access but not free to copy or use,say,in a publication elsewhere? What charges do you propose and when will they be introduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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