Gresford War Memorial

[MotherMave]

Hi, I am researching a soldier whose name is on the above war memorial and he is a mystery, I cannot get on Ancestry tonight any of the Soldiers Effects lists at all, which may have given me a clue to his next of kin, so all I have is what is on the Clwyd Family History Website, which gives this information:-

 

Private FIELD Walter James 8576

Lancashire Fusiliers  (2nd Bn.)

8 Jul 1916

34

Born Birmingham, England. Enlisted at Bury, Lancashire, England. Resident of Llay.

All Saints Churchyard, Gresford.

 

Also as you see he was buried in Gresford, so I can only think that he died there or was brought home to be buried there, perhaps he was injured and as was often the case, buried near their home.   Many thanks in advance, Mavis Williams

[MotherMave]

Sorry folks, I have just found him on the 1911 census living at Mount Alyn Rossett!   He is a Boarder, I cannot believe it,  I have searched off and on all day!!    Any more help would be gratefully received though!!   Regards, Mavis

[PRC]

The Government Probate Service holds a Soldiers Will for 8576 Walter James Field who died 8th July 1916, so hopefully you'll be able to track it down through Ancestry - going through the Probate Service is expensive :-)

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=Field&SurnameGrants=Field&YearOfDeath=1916&YearOfDeathGrants=1916&IsGrantSearch=False&IsCalendarSearch=False&page=2#soldiers

(There is no obvious Civil Probate).

 

I assume you are already aware of the Soldiers Died in the Great War information, but if not he is recorded as "Died" whilst serving on the Home Front with the 2nd Battalion. He was born and resident Birmingham, enlisted Bury, Lancs. (Bury was where the 3rd and 4th Battalions of the Regiment were based).

 

According to the General Registrars Office Index of Deaths in England and Wales, the most likely match is a 34 year old Walter J. Field whose death was registered in the South Stoneham District of Hampshire in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1916.

 

The 2nd Battalion was in France so I suspect Walter may either have been long term sick \ wounded from France or he served with one of the 2nd Line Battalion, (2/5 or 2/6 or 2/7), which were still in the UK at the time of Walters death, although I believe they were in Essex, not Hampshire.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

 

[clive_hughes]

Maeve,

I may well have a photo of his gravestone if it's at Gresford parish church.  My main pc has broken down and until I get it (or the hard drive) back I can't check.

 

Feel free to send me a pm and that'll remind me to get back to you. 

 

Clive

[MotherMave]

Thank you so much Peter and Clive, very much appreciated and I will contact you with a pm Clive, that would be wonderful.   Peter, you have been such a great help, setting me off in telling William's story.    This is such a good forum!    Kindest regards, Mavis

[charlie962]

WJ Field 8576 was born c.1882, joined the army at  about 18 and had been in France for 22 months with the 2nd Bn Lancashire Fusiliers when he was admitted to Hospital with a jaw abcess, No 2 Gen hospital at LeHavre on 5/7/16. Possibly transferred to the ship Asturias. Perhaps this abcess lead to complications and death 3 days later?

Source: Forces War Records Hospital Admissions

 

1914 Star entry 11/9/14

 

Effects- Walter James Field, Sole Legatee widow Mrs Nellie Chester. Died Netley Hospital.

 

Marriage 13/4/14 at Gresford to Nellie Smith aged 24, daug of James Smith.  WJ is son of Isaac Field. I can't decypher addresses.

                        

 

 

Charlie

[clk]

Hi Mavis,

 

In Soldiers' Effects his original entry (written in black ink) is "Depot Lancs Fus". However, in pencil the word 'depot' has been placed in brackets, and "2nd Batt" written above. The place of death is shown as being "Royal Vic Hospital  Netley". His widow, Nellie (later Nellie Cheater? - the spelling of the surname is a little unclear) was his sole legatee. The amount of war gratuity paid is indicative of war service counting from the outbreak of the conflict. Paul Nixon's website would have his 8576 number as being issued after 7th May 1901. A 8507 Wellsbury has surviving papers which show that he joined up on 19th June 1901.

 

Regards

Chris

[charlie962]

Nellie Field married Edwin R Chester  q4 1917

[MotherMave]

Thank you Charlie and Chris for your help with Walter, you are both great, I am in awe again!   Walter's story will get told, all the better for your input, thank you.    Regards, Mavis

[PRC]

23 hours ago, charlie962 said:

WJ Field 8576 was born c.1882, joined the army at  about 18 and had been in France for 22 months with the 2nd Bn Lancashire Fusiliers when he was admitted to Hospital with a jaw abcess, No 2 Gen hospital at LeHavre on 5/7/16. Possibly transferred to the ship Asturias. Perhaps this abcess lead to complications and death 3 days later?

Source: Forces War Records Hospital Admissions

 

May have died on the operating table, in which case there could be a report of a coroners inquest in the local and\or Hampshire newspapers.

 

Did a bit more digging on his birth and census records – the birth of a Walter James Field was registered in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1882 in the Aston District of Warwickshire. There is no clear match on the 1891 census as there are no Walter James, just two Walters of the right age recorded in the Aston District, both born Birmingham.

 

Moving on to the 1901 Census there is now a Walter, aged 18, and a Walter James, aged 18, who were born Birmingham.

 

Walter James, single, is a Stone Quarry Man, boarding at 1 Perrys Lake, Rowley Regis, Staffordshire. The head of the household is a Reuben Ingram, and both he and his grandson Edward Ingram who was living with him are also listed as Stone Quarry men, so suspect the accommodation came through work rather than family ties.

 

The other man, Walter, was living with his parents Thomas, (64) and Emma, (56), so it was now possible to go back and whittle down the options on the 1891 census.

 

The 8 year old Walter, born Birmingham, was recorded living at 27 Mount Street, Aston. Birmingham. This was the household of his parents Isaac, (aged 51, a General Labourer, born Kings Norton, Worcestershire), and Ellen, (aged 51, born Crabb Cross, Worcestershire). As well as Walter their other children living with them are Martha, (13, General Domestic Servant) and Alice, (11) – both born Birmingham. Also living with them is Isaac’s 34 year old step-son, (so presumably Ellens son), James Robinson, (34, single, a General Labourer, born Crabb Cross, Worcestershire)

 

Neither Isaac or Ellen appear to be on later censuses. A possible explanation is the death of a 56 year old Ellen Field in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1895 in the Aston District. I struggled to find a death of an Isaac in Warwickshire or Worcestershire of the right age before that of a 72 year year old in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1911 in the Aston District.

 

I then retried the census record. On the 1901 Census of England and Wales, there is a 62 year old Isaac Field, born Birmingham, a Labourer in a Paper Mill, who was recorded as the married head of the household at 71 Mount Street, Aston. His wife is the 50 year old Mary A, born Birmingham. No one else is recorded living with them. Neither an Isaac Field born Birmingham, or a Mary A Field of the right age appears to be on earlier censuses.

 

A check of the marriage records turns up the marriage of an Isaac Field to a Mary Ann Moore in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1895 in the Aston District.

 

On the 1911 Census of England and Wales, a 72 year old Isaac, no employment, and born “Kings Norton Wore”, was recorded as the married head of the household at 71 Mount Street, Aston. He lives there with his wife of 15 years, Mary, aged 60 and born Birmingham. They have a boarder living with them.

 

So reading between the lines, looks like the family broke up following the death of mother Ellen.

 

The future wife of Walter is a bit of a mystery. On the 1911 census there is a 20 year old “Ellen” Smith, single and living at “Hay Chain” (or “Llay Chain”), Gresford. Born Liverpool, she is recorded as the adopted daughter of the married householders, Jesse and Agnes Guest.

 

It may be a co-incidence, but the birth of a Walter J Field, mothers maiden name Smith, was registered in the Wrexham District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1915.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[MotherMave]

OMG Peter!!   Thank you so much for all your diligence and hard work.   I will try the Hampshire Newspapers/Coroners reports if I can find them but his death might be reported in Denbighshire.   Many thanks again,  Regards, Mavis

[Guest]

Hi Mavis,

I hope you don't mind me commenting on this feed. I am ex military and have been collecting all sorts of military items for a number of years. Quite a few years ago I purchased a " Death Plaque" from a collectors shop in Swindon when I was 17. I have always been curious as to the history of the plaque and that leads me to your feeds!.

The Plaque is in the name of " Pte. Walter James Fielding"  along with a military letter addressed to a " Mrs N Chester..Shones Lane..Llay...Gresford...Nr. Wrexham.

I will attach photos of all items for you to see......I really hope this helps your investigations.

Let me know how you get on.

With Regards, Ian

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[charlie962]

4 minutes ago, Sniper0385 said:

The Plaque is in the name of " Pte. Walter James Fielding"

You mean Field !  fascinating to see the evidence and link !

Charlie

[Guest]

sorry yes it is field my mistake

[MotherMave]

 Hi Ian, Thank you so much for this, I cannot believe that you have these items, how wonderful!   Thank you for sharing them with me, I will add them to Walter's story.   Would you mind if I did, as it is serendipity I believe!   If you want I will send you my notes, if you contact me or I you, then perhaps Walter James's story will be complete!

 Many thanks again,  Regards, Mavis

[MotherMave]

Hi Peter, I found the marriage of Walter James & Nellie at the Flintshire Record Office in the Gresford Parish registers (All Saints), which confirms Isaac as his father, also possibly Walter and Ellen (Nellie) on the 1911 census:-

Gresford Parish Church – Marriages

Page 136 No 271 13th April 1914  Walter James FIELD, 31, Bachelor, Collier, Groes Howell Hill, Gresford, father Isaac FIELD (Dec.) Paper Maker & Nellie SMITH, 24, Spinster, Llay Chain, Gresford, father James SMITH (Dec) Carter.    After Banns.

Witnesses:- Walter BURROWS & Isabella GARDEN.

 

1911 census RG14; Piece: 34002; Schedule Number: 3

Mount Alyn Cottages, Rossett, Denbighshire

In the household of Thomas JONES, his wife Elen, 2 sons and one daughter was Walter James FIELD, Boarder, 29 Single, Collier, born Birmingham, Warwickshire.

 

1911 census  RG14; Piece: 34052; Schedule Number: 23

Llay Chain, Gresford, Nr. Wrexham

GUEST, Jesse Head M 45 (Married 20 years) Coal Miner born Parish of Hope, Wales

GUEST, Agnes Wife M 45 (1 child born, still living) born Parish of Gresford, Wales

GUEST, Percy Son 15 Single Apprentice (Grocery) born Parish of Gresford, Wales

LEWIS, Willie Adopted son 8 School Boy born Parish of Gresford, Wales

SMITH, Ellen Adopted daughter Single 20 At Home born Liverpool, Lancashire

CRYER, David Boarder 23 Single Blacksmith born Selby

GODDEN, Albert Boarder 21 Single Driller born East Guildford, Sussex

 

Thanks again for your help.   Regards, Mavis

[Roger Thompson]

What a brilliant set of coincidences and a marvellous result.

[MotherMave]

 

Yes Wonderful!!!    Thanks for your comment.

[MBrockway]

While Mave is probably well aware of the geographical locations of these various places around Gresford, I thought others might find some info useful ...

 

Llay Chain, Gresford
 - this is the area around the five-way crossroads by the Crown Inn at the western end of The Straight Mile in Llay (B5102).  CHAIN HOUSE (formerly variously LLAY COTTAGE and LLAY CHAIN FARM) lies on CHAPEL LANE, which heads NNE from the 5-ways.
Map on the NLS website
 

Croes Howell Hill, Gresford
- this is the steep downhill where the B5102 drops from near the Burton war memorial at the eastern end of The Straight Mile down towards the River Alyn flood plain and on into Rossett.  The current bridge that takes the B5102 over the Alyn and up to the A483 dual carriageway is of course modern.  The original road, now Unclassified, stays N of the river and lead into Rossett.  The section specifically named CROES HOWELL HILL runs from the junction at the E end of The Straight Mile down to GLYN ALYN (now known as ROSSETT HOUSE).
CROES HOWELL HALL (aka HOUSE) on the N side of the road was an Auxiliary Hospital in the Great War.

IWM Collection - Commandant Mrs Mary Louisa SYKES of Croes Howell [not 'Crocs Howell' as IWM has misfiled it]
Map on the NLS website
 

Mount Alyn Cottages, Mount Alyn, Rossett
 - Mount Alyn was a small country house on the S side of the road at the top of the slope of Croes Howell Hill at the eastern end of The Straight Mile.  It was demolished in, I think, the 1970's when the Ballswood Sand Quarry was extended northwards.  Mount Alyn Cottages may refer to the group of cottages and the lodge at its old entrance, but of this I'm by no means certain.
Listed building information
Map on the NLS website
 

Shones Lane, Llay, Gresford
 - the modern SHONES LANE in Llay is only a remnant of the southern section of the historic lane.  SHONES LANE originally ran south from the junction of the B5102 and the B5425 now presided over by the Llay Miners' Welfare Institute (built 1929-1931) down to the junction of modern SHONES LANE with NANT Y GAER ROAD.  The northern half was remodelled when the pit village was developed and became LLAY NEW ROAD, which same road ignores the historic dogleg into the modern SHONES LANE and continues straight eventually passing Bradley and on into Wrexham.
Map on the NLS website
 

 

Hope this helps.

Mark

 

 

 

Edited 1 October , 2017 by MBrockway

[MotherMave]

Thanks Mark, I don't live there, but about 25 minutes away and go up and down to Wrexham, so this is interesting and will help me in my research I am sure. 

 

Thanks again for your help.   Regards, Mavis

[MBrockway]

Mavis - while you were posted I updated my original post with a link to Mary Sykes of Croes Howell who set up the Red Cross Auxiliary hospital.

 

Here are some further details on Mary Sykes.

 

© IWM (WWC D8-6-104 - IWM Catalogue details etc are here

 

Mrs Sykes also was responsible for the Burton War Memorial just up the hill a wee bit from Mount Alyn.

See

Burton War Memorial photograph on Geograph

http://historypoints.org/index.php?page=burton-war-memorial-rossett

 

Mark

 

Edited 1 October , 2017 by MBrockway

[MotherMave]

Thanks for this Mark, I am trying to find Marford & Hoseley men who died, but they have no war memorial, so am looking at Gresford and found a couple with tentative links to them through work or birth of parents.   Marford & Hoseley was a detached part of Flintshire, and I am one of the researchers on flintshirewarmemorials.com     All this helps to get a picture of the area.    Thanks again, Mavis

 

[MotherMave]

Thanks again for this Mark,   I will keep them as they may help at a later date.   Thanks again, Mavis

 

[Sue Warr]

Hi,Walter James  Field was my 2 times great Uncle .I have found out more from your posts many thanks. This has helped with my family research.The Ellen Jones he was staying with was his sister . My mother called her Auntie Nell ,hope this helps you with your research can try and help if you need anymore information.

Edited 8 January , 2018 by Sue Warr

[MotherMave]

Hi Sue.,