Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Sign in to follow this  
andy2014

Soldier not on CWGC? should he be? died of TB in 1919?

Recommended Posts

andy2014

Hi all

I have discovered a soldier during my research who was discharged medically unfit for TB and pneumonia.

He was discharged after being taken ill during active service in France, service records give complete and detailed medical records and a medical certificate  clearly stating all illnesses are as a result of active service due to exposure to cold, wet and infection.

He was discharged May 1917 and died of TB in April 1919.

Still to get his death certificate to confirm cause of death?

My question is if he died as a result of illness etc from active service should he be recognized on the CWGC site?

Or was there a timescale etc

Just checking as i also found this CWGC link..

http://www.cwgc.org/news-events/news/2017/6/cwgc-commemorates-two-soldiers-a-century-after-death.aspx

Your opinions sought and if anyone has put such a case forward to the CWGC?

More details and documents to follow if interested?

With Thanks

Andy 

 

Your comments welcome

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ian C

Hi Andy

 

I have managed to get three headstones erected in my local cemetery by the CWGC, with the info you have it is certainly worth referring this chap to the CWGC, the cut off date for inclusion on the CWGC database and erection of a CWGC headstone is August 1921 I believe, it is certainly well after April 1919.

 

Regards

 

IanC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252
51 minutes ago, andy2014 said:

Hi all

I have discovered a soldier during my research who was discharged medically unfit for TB and pneumonia.

He was discharged after being taken ill during active service in France, service records give complete and detailed medical records and a medical certificate  clearly stating all illnesses are as a result of active service due to exposure to cold, wet and infection.

He was discharged May 1917 and died of TB in April 1919.

Still to get his death certificate to confirm cause of death?

My question is if he died as a result of illness etc from active service should he be recognized on the CWGC site?

Or was there a timescale etc

Just checking as i also found this CWGC link..

http://www.cwgc.org/news-events/news/2017/6/cwgc-commemorates-two-soldiers-a-century-after-death.aspx

Your opinions sought and if anyone has put such a case forward to the CWGC?

More details and documents to follow if interested?

With Thanks

Andy 

 

Your comments welcome

As you can show that the tb was caused through or aggravated by service then you may have a good chance. 

 

I suspect the only way though of trying to prove the death was from the tb is with the death cert unless you have another official record confirming what he died of ?

 

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tullybrone

Hi,

 

In 2015 I discovered a distant relative had been discharged in 1917 who died in late Nov 1918 from TB contracted on active service.

 

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/75452332/LEARY, JAMES

 

His papers were on Ancestry. He didn't have a CWGC headstone but after contacting IFCP and providing a copy death certificate proving his cause of death was TB they took the case on and he was recognised by CWGC and a headstone is now  on his grave.

 

I would contact IFCP - here is the link.

 

Good Luck.

 

Steve Y

 

http://www.infromthecold.org/

Edited by tullybrone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
1 hour ago, andy2014 said:

He was discharged after being taken ill during active service in France, service records give complete and detailed medical records and a medical certificate  clearly stating all illnesses are as a result of active service due to exposure to cold, wet and infection.

 

Can I ask what is the source of that certificate?

 

1 hour ago, andy2014 said:

My question is if he died as a result of illness etc from active service should he be recognized on the CWGC site?

 

If that certificate is from a military source or reliable medical institution, then the answer to your question must be 'Yes'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John_Hartley
2 hours ago, andy2014 said:

Your opinions sought and if anyone has put such a case forward to the CWGC?

 

The In From the Cold Project has put successfully put forward many similar post discharge cases.

 

As others have said, there needs to be clear evidence that  a man was discharged due to an illness caused by or aggravated by military service and that cause of death was directly linked to cause of discharge. Assuming the death certificate is clear about the TB, it looks to be an almost rock solid case. Do you intend to make the submission yourself? If not, the Project will be pleased to assist you in submitting it through the existing procedures we have with CWGC. Feel free to contact us for advice - there's a link to our website in my signature below.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
andy2014

Hi All

And thank you for all replying to my question.

His service records have several pages discussing his conditions and a medical form B179 medical report on an invalid gives a detailed report plus the question as to the cause states active service conditions.

Another medical form... opinion of the medical board states cause as active service and exposure to cold, wet and infection then discharged permanently medically unfit to serve. 

 

I am now awaiting his death certificate to confirm 100% cause of death but his condition report is very bad about his lungs, coughing etc

 

When I receive his death certificate I will be in contact with the IFCP and put everything to them!

Thanks for your comments everyone. i will keep you updated.

A great help!

Andy 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John_Hartley

Andy

 

Assuming it all looks a runner and IFCP puts ot forward for you, we'll be happy to refund you the cost of getting the certificate (our funding from the Veterans Agency allows us to do this).

 

John

Edited by John_Hartley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
23 minutes ago, andy2014 said:

His service records have several pages discussing his conditions and a medical form B179 medical report on an invalid gives a detailed report plus the question as to the cause states active service conditions.

Another medical form... opinion of the medical board states cause as active service and exposure to cold, wet and infection then discharged permanently medically unfit to serve

Clear cut.

 

24 minutes ago, andy2014 said:

 

I am now awaiting his death certificate to confirm 100% cause of death

Assuming he died from a respiratory illness, there can be little doubt that he should be commemorated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

If this is clear cut, how about this man?

 

Apologies for hijacking thread and feel free to comment on original thread here John J MacDougall

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
53 minutes ago, Skipman said:

If this is clear cut, how about this man?

 

Apologies for hijacking thread and feel free to comment on original thread here John J MacDougall

 

Mike

Thanks Mike,

Have done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John_Hartley

Mike

 

Responded on the original thread, as I did back in 2012. My view is this is still not a runner, as we have no cause of discharge.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Yes, thanks again John. Unless I find any new evidence I will leave this one.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
andy2014
1 hour ago, John_Hartley said:

Andy

 

Assuming it all looks a runner and IFCP puts ot forward for you, we'll be happy to refund you the cost of getting the certificate (our funding from the Veterans Agency allows us to do this).

 

John

Thanks John

I now found about everything on him from MIC, War badge, service and pension records which was lucky, he had a bad time from day one with illness, knee injury, influenza then pneumonia and Tb in and out of hospital, back and forth to the Uk and back in action just to get TB and die in 1919, then his wife died 6 months later? still to find her cause of death.

I wonder if she could have got TB looking after him?

Awaiting death certificate now...

Thanks for your time. 

Andy 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Martin Feledziak

Just reading through this interesting thread reminds me of Ralph SAXON who has almost the same story as the subject in the OP.

I can't find him on CWGC.

To be fair I don't know where he would have been buried.

 

Ralph was born in Staffordshire and appears to have moved to Yorkshire to work in the mines. He joined up and I assume his mining skills were required on the front. He was discharged with  total disability and died during 1918.

 

His wife was awarded 37 Shillings and 11 Pence for herself and 5 children as of 16th October 1918.

 

He is listed on the 1911 census living at Moorthorpe, South Elmsall South Kirkby, Yorkshire.

 

 

 

Edited by Martin Feledziak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
andy2014
2 hours ago, John_Hartley said:

Andy

 

Assuming it all looks a runner and IFCP puts ot forward for you, we'll be happy to refund you the cost of getting the certificate (our funding from the Veterans Agency allows us to do this).

 

John

Are you part of the IFCP, can I deal with you directly or do I have to go through the site.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John_Hartley

Andy

 

Yes, I'm one of the Project's two co-founders.

 

When you've got the death certificate either contact us direct through the website (easiest way) or drop me a PM if you want to chat about it first to see if we have a case.

 

By the by, do you know where the man is buried?

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
andy2014
5 minutes ago, John_Hartley said:

Andy

 

Yes, I'm one of the Project's two co-founders.

 

When you've got the death certificate either contact us direct through the website (easiest way) or drop me a PM if you want to chat about it first to see if we have a case.

 

By the by, do you know where the man is buried?

 

John

yes, i am researching all the men on my local memorial, he is buried with his wife in my local churchyard, my father is popping round and photographing his grave and writing down the full inscriptions as he was buried with his wife who strangely died 6 months after him? we wonder if she got TB looking after him for 2 years? thats my next challenge, her death certificate!

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RFT

Check the pension sum issued to the widow (and children, if any).  

 

"The widow of a soldier who (a) is killed while in the performance of military duty during the war, or (b) dies as a result of wounds or injuries received in the performance of such duty within seven years of receiving such wounds or injuries, or (c) dies of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service during the war, or as having been aggravated by such active service, within seven years of his removal from duty on account of such disease, may, provided the soldier's death has not been caused by his serious negligence or misconduct, be granted a widow's pension."  Widow's pension for a Private would be 20s a week or 26s 8d for a widow with child/children eligible for allowance.

 

Edited by RFT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tullybrone
1 hour ago, andy2014 said:

Part quote......then his wife died 6 months later? still to find her cause of death.

I wonder if she could have got TB looking after him?

Awaiting death certificate now...

Thanks for your time. 

Andy 

 

 

Hi, 

 

Similar circumstances for the James Leary I mentioned above. His wife died the following year leaving 6 young orphan children.

 

I expect that the fact there were often no close adult relatives left is the reason that many post discharge casualties weren't  brought to the attention of IWGC when headstones were being erected in U.K. in the 1920's.

 

Steve Y

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
andy2014
4 hours ago, RFT said:

Check the pension sum issued to the widow (and children, if any).  

 

"The widow of a soldier who (a) is killed while in the performance of military duty during the war, or (b) dies as a result of wounds or injuries received in the performance of such duty within seven years of receiving such wounds or injuries, or (c) dies of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service during the war, or as having been aggravated by such active service, within seven years of his removal from duty on account of such disease, may, provided the soldier's death has not been caused by his serious negligence or misconduct, be granted a widow's pension."  Widow's pension for a Private would be 20s a week or 26s 8d for a widow with child/children eligible for allowance.

 

Thanks, i will look for that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Magnumbellum
On 02/07/2017 at 20:50, Ian C said:

I have managed to get three headstones erected in my local cemetery by the CWGC, with the info you have it is certainly worth referring this chap to the CWGC, the cut off date for inclusion on the CWGC database and erection of a CWGC headstone is August 1921 I believe, it is certainly well after April 1919.

 

Yes,,the latest date of death for WW1 CWGC inclusion, provided that the death can be proved war-related, is 31 August 1921.

 

On the question whether the widow's death only six months later might be TB contracted while nursing her husband, that would certainly be possible, as TB is highly contagious within the close confines of a family, particularly when exacerbated by poverty and poor conditions commonly associated with families in that position. The widow's death certificate should clarify the position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...