andy2014 Posted 2 July , 2017 Share Posted 2 July , 2017 Hi all I have discovered a soldier during my research who was discharged medically unfit for TB and pneumonia. He was discharged after being taken ill during active service in France, service records give complete and detailed medical records and a medical certificate clearly stating all illnesses are as a result of active service due to exposure to cold, wet and infection. He was discharged May 1917 and died of TB in April 1919. Still to get his death certificate to confirm cause of death? My question is if he died as a result of illness etc from active service should he be recognized on the CWGC site? Or was there a timescale etc Just checking as i also found this CWGC link.. http://www.cwgc.org/news-events/news/2017/6/cwgc-commemorates-two-soldiers-a-century-after-death.aspx Your opinions sought and if anyone has put such a case forward to the CWGC? More details and documents to follow if interested? With Thanks Andy Your comments welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted 2 July , 2017 Share Posted 2 July , 2017 Hi Andy I have managed to get three headstones erected in my local cemetery by the CWGC, with the info you have it is certainly worth referring this chap to the CWGC, the cut off date for inclusion on the CWGC database and erection of a CWGC headstone is August 1921 I believe, it is certainly well after April 1919. Regards IanC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 2 July , 2017 Share Posted 2 July , 2017 51 minutes ago, andy2014 said: Hi all I have discovered a soldier during my research who was discharged medically unfit for TB and pneumonia. He was discharged after being taken ill during active service in France, service records give complete and detailed medical records and a medical certificate clearly stating all illnesses are as a result of active service due to exposure to cold, wet and infection. He was discharged May 1917 and died of TB in April 1919. Still to get his death certificate to confirm cause of death? My question is if he died as a result of illness etc from active service should he be recognized on the CWGC site? Or was there a timescale etc Just checking as i also found this CWGC link.. http://www.cwgc.org/news-events/news/2017/6/cwgc-commemorates-two-soldiers-a-century-after-death.aspx Your opinions sought and if anyone has put such a case forward to the CWGC? More details and documents to follow if interested? With Thanks Andy Your comments welcome As you can show that the tb was caused through or aggravated by service then you may have a good chance. I suspect the only way though of trying to prove the death was from the tb is with the death cert unless you have another official record confirming what he died of ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 2 July , 2017 Share Posted 2 July , 2017 (edited) Hi, In 2015 I discovered a distant relative had been discharged in 1917 who died in late Nov 1918 from TB contracted on active service. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/75452332/LEARY, JAMES His papers were on Ancestry. He didn't have a CWGC headstone but after contacting IFCP and providing a copy death certificate proving his cause of death was TB they took the case on and he was recognised by CWGC and a headstone is now on his grave. I would contact IFCP - here is the link. Good Luck. Steve Y http://www.infromthecold.org/ Edited 2 July , 2017 by tullybrone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 2 July , 2017 Share Posted 2 July , 2017 1 hour ago, andy2014 said: He was discharged after being taken ill during active service in France, service records give complete and detailed medical records and a medical certificate clearly stating all illnesses are as a result of active service due to exposure to cold, wet and infection. Can I ask what is the source of that certificate? 1 hour ago, andy2014 said: My question is if he died as a result of illness etc from active service should he be recognized on the CWGC site? If that certificate is from a military source or reliable medical institution, then the answer to your question must be 'Yes'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 2 July , 2017 Share Posted 2 July , 2017 2 hours ago, andy2014 said: Your opinions sought and if anyone has put such a case forward to the CWGC? The In From the Cold Project has put successfully put forward many similar post discharge cases. As others have said, there needs to be clear evidence that a man was discharged due to an illness caused by or aggravated by military service and that cause of death was directly linked to cause of discharge. Assuming the death certificate is clear about the TB, it looks to be an almost rock solid case. Do you intend to make the submission yourself? If not, the Project will be pleased to assist you in submitting it through the existing procedures we have with CWGC. Feel free to contact us for advice - there's a link to our website in my signature below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 3 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2017 Hi All And thank you for all replying to my question. His service records have several pages discussing his conditions and a medical form B179 medical report on an invalid gives a detailed report plus the question as to the cause states active service conditions. Another medical form... opinion of the medical board states cause as active service and exposure to cold, wet and infection then discharged permanently medically unfit to serve. I am now awaiting his death certificate to confirm 100% cause of death but his condition report is very bad about his lungs, coughing etc When I receive his death certificate I will be in contact with the IFCP and put everything to them! Thanks for your comments everyone. i will keep you updated. A great help! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 (edited) Andy Assuming it all looks a runner and IFCP puts ot forward for you, we'll be happy to refund you the cost of getting the certificate (our funding from the Veterans Agency allows us to do this). John Edited 3 July , 2017 by John_Hartley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 23 minutes ago, andy2014 said: His service records have several pages discussing his conditions and a medical form B179 medical report on an invalid gives a detailed report plus the question as to the cause states active service conditions. Another medical form... opinion of the medical board states cause as active service and exposure to cold, wet and infection then discharged permanently medically unfit to serve Clear cut. 24 minutes ago, andy2014 said: I am now awaiting his death certificate to confirm 100% cause of death Assuming he died from a respiratory illness, there can be little doubt that he should be commemorated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 If this is clear cut, how about this man? Apologies for hijacking thread and feel free to comment on original thread here John J MacDougall Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 53 minutes ago, Skipman said: If this is clear cut, how about this man? Apologies for hijacking thread and feel free to comment on original thread here John J MacDougall Mike Thanks Mike, Have done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 Mike Responded on the original thread, as I did back in 2012. My view is this is still not a runner, as we have no cause of discharge. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 Yes, thanks again John. Unless I find any new evidence I will leave this one. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 3 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2017 1 hour ago, John_Hartley said: Andy Assuming it all looks a runner and IFCP puts ot forward for you, we'll be happy to refund you the cost of getting the certificate (our funding from the Veterans Agency allows us to do this). John Thanks John I now found about everything on him from MIC, War badge, service and pension records which was lucky, he had a bad time from day one with illness, knee injury, influenza then pneumonia and Tb in and out of hospital, back and forth to the Uk and back in action just to get TB and die in 1919, then his wife died 6 months later? still to find her cause of death. I wonder if she could have got TB looking after him? Awaiting death certificate now... Thanks for your time. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 (edited) Just reading through this interesting thread reminds me of Ralph SAXON who has almost the same story as the subject in the OP. I can't find him on CWGC. To be fair I don't know where he would have been buried. Ralph was born in Staffordshire and appears to have moved to Yorkshire to work in the mines. He joined up and I assume his mining skills were required on the front. He was discharged with total disability and died during 1918. His wife was awarded 37 Shillings and 11 Pence for herself and 5 children as of 16th October 1918. He is listed on the 1911 census living at Moorthorpe, South Elmsall South Kirkby, Yorkshire. Edited 3 July , 2017 by Martin Feledziak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 3 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2017 2 hours ago, John_Hartley said: Andy Assuming it all looks a runner and IFCP puts ot forward for you, we'll be happy to refund you the cost of getting the certificate (our funding from the Veterans Agency allows us to do this). John Are you part of the IFCP, can I deal with you directly or do I have to go through the site. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 Andy Yes, I'm one of the Project's two co-founders. When you've got the death certificate either contact us direct through the website (easiest way) or drop me a PM if you want to chat about it first to see if we have a case. By the by, do you know where the man is buried? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 3 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2017 5 minutes ago, John_Hartley said: Andy Yes, I'm one of the Project's two co-founders. When you've got the death certificate either contact us direct through the website (easiest way) or drop me a PM if you want to chat about it first to see if we have a case. By the by, do you know where the man is buried? John yes, i am researching all the men on my local memorial, he is buried with his wife in my local churchyard, my father is popping round and photographing his grave and writing down the full inscriptions as he was buried with his wife who strangely died 6 months after him? we wonder if she got TB looking after him for 2 years? thats my next challenge, her death certificate! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 (edited) Check the pension sum issued to the widow (and children, if any). "The widow of a soldier who (a) is killed while in the performance of military duty during the war, or (b) dies as a result of wounds or injuries received in the performance of such duty within seven years of receiving such wounds or injuries, or (c) dies of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service during the war, or as having been aggravated by such active service, within seven years of his removal from duty on account of such disease, may, provided the soldier's death has not been caused by his serious negligence or misconduct, be granted a widow's pension." Widow's pension for a Private would be 20s a week or 26s 8d for a widow with child/children eligible for allowance. Edited 3 July , 2017 by RFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 1 hour ago, andy2014 said: Part quote......then his wife died 6 months later? still to find her cause of death. I wonder if she could have got TB looking after him? Awaiting death certificate now... Thanks for your time. Andy Hi, Similar circumstances for the James Leary I mentioned above. His wife died the following year leaving 6 young orphan children. I expect that the fact there were often no close adult relatives left is the reason that many post discharge casualties weren't brought to the attention of IWGC when headstones were being erected in U.K. in the 1920's. Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 3 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2017 4 hours ago, RFT said: Check the pension sum issued to the widow (and children, if any). "The widow of a soldier who (a) is killed while in the performance of military duty during the war, or (b) dies as a result of wounds or injuries received in the performance of such duty within seven years of receiving such wounds or injuries, or (c) dies of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service during the war, or as having been aggravated by such active service, within seven years of his removal from duty on account of such disease, may, provided the soldier's death has not been caused by his serious negligence or misconduct, be granted a widow's pension." Widow's pension for a Private would be 20s a week or 26s 8d for a widow with child/children eligible for allowance. Thanks, i will look for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnumbellum Posted 4 July , 2017 Share Posted 4 July , 2017 On 02/07/2017 at 20:50, Ian C said: I have managed to get three headstones erected in my local cemetery by the CWGC, with the info you have it is certainly worth referring this chap to the CWGC, the cut off date for inclusion on the CWGC database and erection of a CWGC headstone is August 1921 I believe, it is certainly well after April 1919. Yes,,the latest date of death for WW1 CWGC inclusion, provided that the death can be proved war-related, is 31 August 1921. On the question whether the widow's death only six months later might be TB contracted while nursing her husband, that would certainly be possible, as TB is highly contagious within the close confines of a family, particularly when exacerbated by poverty and poor conditions commonly associated with families in that position. The widow's death certificate should clarify the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC78 Posted 5 December , 2019 Share Posted 5 December , 2019 Which man was this Andy, you don't seem to say above (unless I've missed it). Was he accepted by the CWGC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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